Griesen update

[Russ Smith]

He split time at QB with the Rhein Fire this year, with Nick Rolovich who hopes to make the Bronco roster this year.

58%, 10 TD, 5 int rating of 86.8. He vastly outplayed Rolovich(3 TD' 4 INT) but Rolovich got slightly more attempts.

No idea if Griesen is going to be in the NFL this year or not.

 

[vince56]

Funny thing Russ, when I clicked on this thread, I thought it was simply going to be like this:


GREISEN UPDATE: He still sucks.

 

[Shane]

I was actually surprised when he got cut last year. He looked markedly better than our current back-ups in camp.

I guess the team just felt like ging with the youngsters. Which I have no problem with. Just an observation!

 

[jstadvl]

I watched

him in a few of those games and he lokked very good. Scrambled, ran and threw on the money most the time. Not many bad decisions.

 

[[email protected]]

Which NFL team sent him to Europe? If the Cardinals cut him, who picked him up? This may sound like a dumb question, but I've been out of the loop for a while.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by [email protected]
Which NFL team sent him to Europe? If the Cardinals cut him, who picked him up? This may sound like a dumb question, but I've been out of the loop for a while.

Players don't have to be affliated with an NFL team to go to Europe. If I remember correctly, Griesen went without a team.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the reply, I thought they had to be with an NFL team

 

[TXCardinalsFan]

That's gotta kill you if you are the backup behind Jake. Think of all the bonehead things Plummer did and the Cards never benched him. Guess Jake will see what a benching is in Shannahan's organization. Hell, there were several times that I said to give the kids a chance. They couldn't make stupider plays than some of the ones I saw outta our old QB. Hope Greisen lands somewhere. He seemed to be a pretty okay player.

 

[phinius]

Originally posted by Shane H
I was actually surprised when he got cut last year. He looked markedly better than our current back-ups in camp.

I guess the team just felt like ging with the youngsters. Which I have no problem with. Just an observation!

And here I thought I was the only one who felt that way. For some reason McGinnis and Greisen didn't seem to hit it off.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by phinius
And here I thought I was the only one who felt that way. For some reason McGinnis and Greisen didn't seem to hit it off.

I too was a little surprised when the team cut Greissen last year. What little time he had actually played he didn't generally do that bad. The "knock" on him has generally seemed to be that he has a weak arm.
My guess, then....and now, is that Greissen was not really considered to have enough upside to legitimately be any thing more than a decent back-up.
They liked the upside of McCown and Parsons more and decided to gamble a little hoping one of them is indeed eventually the real deal.
One thing that could always be said about Jake. HE PLAYED. Even Russ has agreed that it was almost uncanny how Jake turned out to be as durable as he was. So, I have since maintained that the risk was a very calculated one, and so far, there has been nothing to prove that it wasn't a good move.

At this very moment, I do think Greissen would be the better back up....but not the long term answer that McCown or Parsons could possibly be.

 

[Metal Militia]

The Cards gave Chris a fair shake. He played the majority of the Oakland preseason game and failed miserably. They even let him go with the first teamers for a while. He was outplayed by Parsons fair and square.

Now, I am not saying that Chris is a horrible QB who can't play, but when the Cards gave him his chance last preseason, he failed.

 

[phinius]

Originally posted by Metal Militia
The Cards gave Chris a fair shake. He played the majority of the Oakland preseason game and failed miserably. They even let him go with the first teamers for a while. He was outplayed by Parsons fair and square.

Now, I am not saying that Chris is a horrible QB who can't play, but when the Cards gave him his chance last preseason, he failed.

I don't recall that Parsons outplayed Chris in that game, maybe he did. But as I recall McCown (it was the first time I had seen him in competition) was a complete disaster in that contest. He looked absolutely putrid, a real disappointment.
Phinius

 

[Metal Militia]

Originally posted by phinius
I don't recall that Parsons outplayed Chris in that game, maybe he did. But as I recall McCown (it was the first time I had seen him in competition) was a complete disaster in that contest. He looked absolutely putrid, a real disappointment.
Phinius

Well, I guess I should have clarifired my post. Parsons outplayed Greisen earlier in camp and the Cards gave Greisen his chance in the Oakland game and he failed. The Oakland game was Greisen's final chance to keep his job. I am not even sure if Parsons played in that game. McCown did do horrible in that game but they were not going to cut a third rounder.

 

[Second Deck]

I also thought Griesen was assumed to be the number 2 coming into camp and thought he had played well the previous two preseasons. I don't know if the pressure got to him but he had a terrible camp last year. As a further note I have not seen much in McNown to give me much hope and feel Parsons has clearly outperformed him.

I also think we will he ok having Blake start with the two rookies behind him.

 

[Harry]

The decision to cut Griesen was as strange as the one to draft him. At the time I was surprised they spent the pick. Then they constantly put him in no-win situations. I thought he developed a little better than I expected, but he never looked comfortable in the pocket (I know, what pocket?). Plummer had many quailities I liked and one was his ability to anticipate the rush. Griesen seemed to anticipate a rush, even when it wasn't there. He got "happy feet." He would hurry throws and not wait for patterns to develop. He didn't have the command of the team Plummer had or the presence on the field. Griesen may yet become a serviceable quarterback, as many times QBs develop late. McCown has better raw tools and Parsons has shown that he's a gamer, at least in college. The choice to let Griesen go was the right one, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him make someone's roster.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

Clearly, Chris Greisen got short shrifted in Arizona. There is no question about it.

Harry, I am surprised at your assessment of Greisen and the fact that you even question why the Cardinals used a 7th round draft pick on him. Greisen had a sensational career at NW Missouri St. Sure NW Missouri is not a Division 1 program, but the level of Greisen's play and leadership was outstanding. Didn't he lead NW Missouri St. to an NCAA championship?

How much of Greisen did you actually watch while he was a Cardinal? The happy feet you allude to applies more to Josh McCown than Greisen. Perhaps Greisen's greatest strength is his poise in the pocket. Two examples come to mind: (1) In a pre-season game a couple of years ago against San Diege, Gresien led a furious fourth quarter comeback. On the last possession that actually won the Cardinals the game, Greisen faced a 4th and 16. He took his five step drop and immediately there was a Charger linebacker in his face. Knowing he was going to get tattooed, Greisen stepped up and threw a twenty yard rope up the seam to Tywan Mitchell. The ball hit Mitchell's hands right in stride on the money. This stellar play kept the drive alive and led to the game winning touchdown. (2) In one of Greisen's only appearances in a regular season game, there was a similar situation...the rush was on him quickly but Greisen stood tall and delivered a perfect strike to Frank Sanders on a skinny post for a 20 yard TD.

I believe that Chris Greisen presented a real problem for Dave McGinnis. Greisen could attack the middle of the field in ways Jake Plummer never could. McGinnis had many occasions two years ago where he could have easily given Greisen a chance to play. For whatever reasons...we can speculate that Bill Bidwill issued a mandate to Mac that Jake take every possible snap...or that Mac was just hell-bent on not toying with Jake's confidence...for whatever reasons...Mac avoided using Gresien like the plague. And I believed this at the time and I still believe it, had Mac started Greisen in the Baltimore game late in the season three years ago...the year the Ravens won the Super Bowl...a game that the Cardinals clearly outplayed the Ravens...but, of course, a 4th quarter bonehead interception thrown by Jake Plummer sealed the win for Baltimore...had Mac started Greisen in that game, the Cardinals would have upset the Ravens that day and McGinnis would have had a full-fledged QB controversy on his hands.

The same reasons why Mac didn't play Greisen late in that season...a season in which Jake was pitiful...are the same reasons why McGinnis cut Greisen last year. Mac wanted no part of a QB controversy. By hanging on to two rookies instead, Mac built himself the perfect excuse to play Jake ad nauseum...which is exactly what Mac did...even at the expense of not giving his young QBs game experience when a myriad of perfect opportunities presented themselves.

Greisen was never given a decent chance to show what he could do. Don't tell me that a pre-season game against the Raiders was a decent chance. The Raiders dominated the hapless Cards in that contest in all areas of the game from start to finish.

I am not saying that Greisen is the next Johnny Unitas. But, Greisen has the intelligence, arm strength and poise to be a solid quarterback. You even contradict yourself, Harry, at the end of your post by saying you wouldn't be surprised to see Greisen land on another NFL roster...if so, why would you ever question using a 7th round pick on the guy?

To base Greisen's potential on his pre-season performances last year is a mistake.

 

[phinius]

Originally posted by Metal Militia
Well, I guess I should have clarifired my post. Parsons outplayed Greisen earlier in camp and the Cards gave Greisen his chance in the Oakland game and he failed. The Oakland game was Greisen's final chance to keep his job. I am not even sure if Parsons played in that game. McCown did do horrible in that game but they were not going to cut a third rounder.

None of the reserve quarterbacks got much of a chance in last year's preseason because they came in behind a reserve OL that was terrible. It didn't the Cards long after that Oakland preseason game to pick up a couple of free agent O linemen. Greisen did get to play one or two series behind the first string OL but by that time he was a little gun shy. In McCown's defense he looked lousy in that Oakland game because the defense was on him so fast, he really didn't have a decent chance to throw. I was surprised that he looked absolutely dumbfounded and certainly didn't show that he had any ability at all to escape the rush.

The preseason the year before I saw Greisen perform against Seattle. He came in after Plummer and Brown had proved ineffective and nearly brought the Cards back from a big deficit. The Seattle telecast announcers at that time wondered if Phoenix had a "receiver factory" because of the oustanding job the young receivers were doing. Poole especially made a good showing in that game and I was surprised that he was cut, but I understand why they brought him back llater in the season.

Mac's infatuation with Plummer as a quarterback left me scratching my head (no I don't have fleas.) He seems to be a good coach, but I don't trust his assessment of quarterbacks.

For those who disagree: I quickly admit I'm no expert and I haven't had the opportunity to watch the players in practice everyday.

confused:

 

[Metal Militia]

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell
To base Greisen's potential on his pre-season performances last year is a mistake.

Walter,

Chris did nothing in preseason last year while Parsons impressed. The Cardinals wanted to make sure about Greisen so they gave him the bulk of the work against OAK in week 4 of the preseason. He failed. Chris had many opportunities to prove himself last preseason and he just didn't get the job done. The Cardinals would be foolish to have kept Greisen around based on his performance two preseasons ago.

 

[Walter Mitchell]

It's ironic, Metal, because Dave Brown was pathetic year after year in the pre-season and was retained as the #1 backup each year...why? Because he was the perfect choice to backup Plummer...no threat to Jake's job whatsoever.

While Greisen did struggle during the pre-season last year, his opportunities came mostly with the second string offense which was overpowered by the opponents' defenses...the mark of a young team's lack of depth. Greisen did manage to make some plays, but he was under heavy duress almost all of the time.

Chris Greisen played three years in Arizona. For the first two years he clearly outplayed Dave Brown in training camp, yet Brown remained the primary backup. Despite ample opportunities in playing behind a struggling QB on a struggling team, Greisen was never given a single regular season start to see what he could do. That's not a fair chance, plain and simple.

The other thing is...Preston Parsons could have been kept on the practice squad. There is NO way another team would have claimed him off waivers...because no team would have elected to add Parsons to their 53 man roster in order to claim him. Parsons played OK in his limited appearances, but he didn't exactly turn heads.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by phinius
None of the reserve quarterbacks got much of a chance in last
Mac's infatuation with Plummer as a quarterback left me scratching my head (no I don't have fleas.) He seems to be a good coach, but I don't trust his assessment of quarterbacks.

For those who disagree: I quickly admit I'm no expert and I haven't had the opportunity to watch the players in practice everyday.

confused:

I think it was largely financial. You pay a guy that much the pressure is on you to play him. If Griesen is as good or marginally better, that's simply not enough to justify benching the highest paid player on your roster.

It's wrong mind you, but I'm fairly sure that's the rationale Mac used.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
I think it was largely financial. You pay a guy that much the pressure is on you to play him. If Griesen is as good or marginally better, that's simply not enough to justify benching the highest paid player on your roster.

It's wrong mind you, but I'm fairly sure that's the rationale Mac used.

Russ, I fail to see how you think Mac used money to help make his decisions. To me that is preposterous (or I am wildly naive). I doubt Mac gives a rats ass how much any player makes with regard to playing or not playing. If anything, that order would come from upstairs and handcuff him into playing the money man over the guy Mac wants.

I believe that is what happened. Mac was essentially told...here is the man whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Russ, I fail to see how you think Mac used money to help make his decisions. To me that is preposterous (or I am wildly naive). I doubt Mac gives a rats ass how much any player makes with regard to playing or not playing. If anything, that order would come from upstairs and handcuff him into playing the money man over the guy Mac wants.

I believe that is what happened. Mac was essentially told...here is the man whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

That's what I mean, for him to go out on a limb, put his foot down, draw a line in the sand(etc) and bench Jake for Griesen, Chris had to be CLEARLY better. Otherwise he has to explain to Mr. Bidwill why his highest paid player is not playing.

There's very little question in my mind that the reason Tobin didn't bench him in '99 while he was injured was the new contract.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
That's what I mean, for him to go out on a limb, put his foot down, draw a line in the sand(etc) and bench Jake for Griesen, Chris had to be CLEARLY better. Otherwise he has to explain to Mr. Bidwill why his highest paid player is not playing.

There's very little question in my mind that the reason Tobin didn't bench him in '99 while he was injured was the new contract.

I got you. In essense, Tobin was "advised" to keep playing Jake through the injury and Vince, wanting to keep his job, chose to follow.

Coaches cannot coach properly in this environment...which actually hurts the team in the long run. What is the definition of CLEARLY? Had Chris led the Cards to 2 additional wins per year is that CLEARLY enough?

 

[spanky]

And I thought that Greisen came to us from New Mexico State. I will not suppose for a minute that Walter is wrong.......who was the guy from NM State that I'm thinking about? Any ideas/

 

[Ed B]

Re: I watched

Originally posted by jstadvl
him in a few of those games and he lokked very good. Scrambled, ran and threw on the money most the time. Not many bad decisions.

Wow, I thought my dad and I were the only sickos who watched NFLE!!!