Grizzlies @ Suns Wednesday game thread 12-11-19

[1Sun]

Agree. Booker looked like the arm hurt him or effected how he played.

And if that's the case, Monty made a mistake not taking him out for the game, both in terms of this game and in terms of Booker's overall development and the team's future.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well at least the Suns acknowledge what it was but it doesn't make me feel any better. No excuse for this type of effort.


Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson

Booker and Rubio were honest about the loss in the locker room.

Rubio said they didn't play with energy and it was one of the worst losses of the season, if not the worst one.

Booker said these are must-win games for them. Said they dropped the ball and were complacent.

9:06 PM - 11 Dec 2019

 

[WildBB]

Prolly the most frustrating game of the year for me. Didn't care for coaches rotation today, mainly the rooks. I thought Okobo and Diallo should've gotten a shot out there, as obviously they don't want to see TJ injured prior to 12-15. Really poor decision making by William's in keeping CJ out there right through the end tonight also.

And on a side note, not drafting JJJ might ultimately have hurt this org. more than passing on Luka.

 

[Hoop Head]

Bad loss but I have confidence we’ll recover.

No to trading Oubre. Hard stop on that commentary.

Cam Johnson has exceeded expectations and will be an integral part of this team’s success moving forward.

Ayton is almost back.

We’re fine. Deep breaths.

It sucks to lose but you're right. It would have been nice to see the win but at the same time the Suns are a ways from having any "gimmes" on the schedule. They were a gimme win for other teams the last 3-4 years so the leap forward this year is encouraging, especially without Ayton.

They're still right about where most hoped they would be when the Ayton suspension was announced, close to 500 and ready for his return. I think it could be a small blessing that they're not playing that well at the moment, that means he won't disrupt anything positive by being worked back into things.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I don't like it when players lie about injuries. After free throws you can clearly see that Booker is only reaching out with his left hand for high-fives. You can clearly see that something is/was wrong with his right wrist/arm as he holds it back. On one of Rubio's turnovers (the lob into the post) Booker didn't extend his right arm to catch the pass and instead made a weak attempt with his left and it went over his head. Refused to shoot open threes near the end of the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

It sucks to lose but you're right. It would have been nice to see the win but at the same time the Suns are a ways from having any "gimmes" on the schedule. They were a gimme win for other teams the last 3-4 years so the leap forward this year is encouraging, especially without Ayton.

They're still right about where most hoped they would be when the Ayton suspension was announced, close to 500 and ready for his return. I think it could be a small blessing that they're not playing that well at the moment, that means he won't disrupt anything positive by being worked back into things.

I was hoping the Suns were laying a positive foundation for Ayton's return because it will likely take him awhile to get back to where he should be.

 

[Proximo]

Booker is reportedly okay.


Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson

Monty described Booker as "fine" when asked about the wrist.

8:39 PM - 11 Dec 2019

yeah, that’s BS. I will believe my eyes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well at least the Suns acknowledge what it was but it doesn't make me feel any better. No excuse for this type of effort.


Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson

Booker and Rubio were honest about the loss in the locker room.

Rubio said they didn't play with energy and it was one of the worst losses of the season, if not the worst one.

Booker said these are must-win games for them. Said they dropped the ball and were complacent.

9:06 PM - 11 Dec 2019

I see this and it's mind-boggling. It's a losers mentality that this team, which has been the laughingstock of the LEAGUE for almost a decade can in any way shape or form be complacent for ANY game when the team is STILL BELOW .500. If Booker was talking about himself, it's that kind of insight that makes me question him specifically more than anything. If he's complacent at all, having gotten pegged with the... eh. this isn't worth me getting that riled up about.

it's just pathetic that this team could get complacent about anything while not only being below .500 but after having lost like 8 of their last 12.

 

[Proximo]

And had the Suns traded up for Ja Morant you would’ve killed Jones and said he can’t build a roster to save his life. These proclamations are pointless in hindsight, especially when it’s still December.

Dont forget 1sun hated Ja and said he would be a bust, but I don’t bring that up every game.

 

[Phrazbit]

Right now, their biggest problems are Booker (who looks disinterested) and lack of a power forward.

Booker is one of their biggest problems?

You keep finding ways to out do your shtick.

 

[1Sun]

Booker is one of their biggest problems?

You keep finding ways to out do your shtick.

Sorry, but Booker of late has mostly been playing like garbage. He certainly did tonight.

 

[1Sun]

Dont forget 1sun hated Ja and said he would be a bust, but I don’t bring that up every game.

You just did, and you have before, as you are entitled to do. And I will continue to admit I was wrong on that one. Will you do the same with respect to where you were wrong? Most important, will James Jones do the same with respect to where he was wrong?

 

[WildBB]

Dont forget 1sun hated Ja and said he would be a bust, but I don’t bring that up every game.

Morant's definitely exciting, but he doesn't have an all around game. Not sure he would've been a great addition here either, long term.

Definitely wished we had JJJ.

 

[Mainstreet]

It wasn't just tonight. The Suns do not have a defensive focus most nights.

Drive the ball inside has to be in every opponent's scouting report.



Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell

Some pretty pointed comments by the #Suns after tonight’s loss:

Monty Williams: “We just didn’t have a defensive focus tonight...Their ability to drive the ball past us was deflating at times.”

Also mentioned at least 5 possessions when didn’t move ball to a wide-open guy.

9:25 PM - 11 Dec 2019

 

[JerkFace]

You just did, and you have before, as you are entitled to do. And I will continue to admit I was wrong on that one. Will you do the same with respect to where you were wrong? Most important, will James Jones do the same with respect to where he was wrong?

We were the worst team in the league last season. This season we are hovering around .500 without our second best player and dealing with a myriad of injuries. Yet according to you Jones can’t put together a roster and Booker has one foot out the door... Growth is a process. This will seem like a slam but in all honesty I am somewhat curious if you are a grumpy old man, or an ignorant kid. Neither would surprise me.

 

[BC867]

I see this and it's mind-boggling. It's a losers mentality that this team, which has been the laughingstock of the LEAGUE for almost a decade can in any way shape or form be complacent for ANY game when the team is STILL BELOW .500. If Booker was talking about himself, it's that kind of insight that makes me question him specifically more than anything. If he's complacent at all, having gotten pegged with the... eh. this isn't worth me getting that riled up about.

it's just pathetic that this team could get complacent about anything while not only being below .500 but after having lost like 8 of their last 12.

Especially when you factor in that we're losing games (like tonight) that we should have won. Even with Ayton out.

And that we were close in many losses this season that we could have won with a better effort from the players
and the coaching staff.

Just because we sucked for a decade is no reason to assume that we can't win those games.

And, BTW, what role does Robert Sarver's "communications triangle" with Jones and Monty play in all of this?

The team went into a tailspin when he announced it. 'Not making that up. What did it accomplish besides feeding
Sarver's ego. Which leads to the question if he is ruining a good thing by (being back to) micro-managing.

Our only hope was Jones and Monty being able to tell him to F-off and let them do their jobs. Everything is part
of the whole. Nothing should be overlooked or alibied by the fans when you lose 8 out of 12 to drop below .500.

That is what a management consultant would say.

 

[1Sun]

Morant's definitely exciting, but he doesn't have an all around game. Not sure he would've been a great addition here either, long term.

Definitely wished we had JJJ.

JJJ is just the type we need at power forward.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Especially when you factor in that we're losing games (like tonight) that we should have won. Even with Ayton out.

I think we should have won but it's not like we're much better than them. IMO, if we played on a neutral court with a full and healthy roster we'd win probably 6 out of 10 games. But Booker clearly wasn't himself tonight and we were minus Ayton not to mention that Baynes isn't all the way back either.

I'm disappointed with the loss but not at all surprised and it doesn't change how I feel about this team and it's immediate future. I figure 43 wins at the high end if we're done losing key players to injury or suspension. From where we were, I'd be happy with that kind of progress.

 

[BC867]

Hmmm, as I posted, I saw that we will be playing in Mexico City
and thought that we were going to be playing two games.

Then, when I was posting on the D-backs board, I was reminded
that they have two games scheduled in Mexico City next season.

Oh, the confusion!

 

[BC867]

I think we should have won but it's not like we're much better than them. IMO, if we played on a neutral court with a full and healthy roster we'd win probably 6 out of 10 games. But Booker clearly wasn't himself tonight and we were minus Ayton not to mention that Baynes isn't all the way back either.

I'm disappointed with the loss but not at all surprised and it doesn't change how I feel about this team and it's immediate future. I figure 43 wins at the high end if we're done losing key players to injury or suspension. From where we were, I'd be happy with that kind of progress.

I wonder if Book wasn't himself tonight because he had to lead the team in assists
or did he have to lead in assists because, as a scorer, he wasn't himself tonight.

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

 

[Hoop Head]

Especially when you factor in that we're losing games (like tonight) that we should have won. Even with Ayton out.

And that we were close in many losses this season that we could have won with a better effort from the players
and the coaching staff.

Just because we sucked for a decade is no reason to assume that we can't win those games.

They should not have won this game. They shot less than 40% from the field and 25% from 3. That is not a recipe for winning basketball now or ever.

The history of this team should tell you that a winner can't be built over night. Going from punching bag to puncher is not possible over night. Right now they're finding their footing and exceeding expectations on the year. Part of the problem is a hot start made some people change their expectations.

You weren't calling this team a playoff contender before the season started but 2 months into the season you're upset they're not playing like a playoff team. Your expectations changed but the Suns didn't, not for the better. They lost their second best player but you want more from them now than they've been able to do in the past despite the team not being at full strength, why?

I don't mean to single you out specifically, I mean that as a whole towards fans that are frustrated right now. I know you're part of that group and it's understandable but I don't think it's all that reasonable. The culture of the Suns has been terrible the last decade and they need to change that, and they are, but it will take time to accomplish that.

They dug a hole that they now have to climb out of and you can't get out of a 10 year old hole in 20 games. That just won't happen. They're still climbing but they don't have the same fire they had when they started their ascent. Hopefully Ayton's return will bring some of that fire back so it's easier to see the path on their way out.

 

[Raindog]

And, BTW, what role does Robert Sarver's "communications triangle" with Jones and Monty play in all of this?

The team went into a tailspin when he announced it. 'Not making that up. What did it accomplish besides feeding
Sarver's ego. Which leads to the question if he is ruining a good thing by (being back to) micro-managing.

Our only hope was Jones and Monty being able to tell him to F-off and let them do their jobs. Everything is part
of the whole. Nothing should be overlooked or alibied by the fans when you lose 8 out of 12 to drop below .500.

That is what a management consultant would say.

I don't want to jump the gun on any unsubstantiated (or ultimately unverifiable) conspiracy theory like this, but one does have to wonder when you have a clown like Sarver as the owner. It is awfully hard to shake the belief that he is somehow always in the background, possibly messing up the team's mojo when things go awry.

 

[BC867]

Your points are valid, Hoop. But what about the concept of hoping
for steady improvement, vs. up-and-down? Even with players out.

The teams that do it, do. The teams that don't, don't.

Aren't we all tired of our team needing alibis?

With Kaminsky stepping up to be our scoring leader for the game
in place of Booker, I do believe that this was our game to win.

Did any of us post anything different before the game? The Suns
should not have lost this game. Especially with .500 being a
motivator.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Your points are valid, Hoop. But what about the concept of hoping
for steady improvement, vs. up-and-down? Even with players out.

The teams that do it, do. The teams that don't, don't.

Aren't we all tired of our team needing alibis?

With Kaminsky stepping up to be our scoring leader for the game
in place of Booker, I do believe that this was our game to win.

Did any of us post anything different before the game? The Suns
should not have lost this game. Especially with .500 being a
motivator.

With just a few exceptions I really can't think of many teams that fit your description. We are steadily improving from where we've been the past few years but are you really asking this team to show improvement from each game to the next? That just doesn't happen. And even good teams lose to bad teams, we're just a mediocre team that lost to another mediocre team.

I didn't enjoy this game at all and not just because of the final score. We couldn't shoot from outside (except for Frank) and we couldn't score down low with their length and athleticism plus our defense was inconsistent. But having said that, I think I'd have felt worse if we were Cavs fans. Talk about inconsistent, they went on a 24-0 run midway through the 4th quarter to take a double digit lead only to watch the Rockets come back and beat them. We're a lot closer, talent wise, to the Cavs then we are the Rockets and while it hurts to say that, I think it helps to remember it.

 

[Hoop Head]

Unfortunately the NBA doesn't have a catchy "Any given Sunday" sort of cliche to explain away losses but they play the games for a reason. When the Warriors went 73-9 a few years back they lost to the lowly Lakers during the regular season, they were 55-5 headed in with the Lakers sitting at 12-51. I don't think Warrior fans took that loss that badly but I feel comfortable saying that was a more unexpected and disappointing loss for them than this game was for the Suns.

For a team that is 11-12 to lose to a team that is 7-16, it happens. It's more likely to happen when the 11-12 team can't buy a bucket and they're missing their 2nd best player. Throw in how Baynes still isn't healthy and they don't have anyone else that plays big and teams that are long and big like Memphis won't have that hard of a time keepings things competitive.

Kaminsky having a career night should have said the Suns were in trouble but some took that as a sign that the Suns could win when really it was a sign of how they Grizzlies game planned against the Suns. Let Kaminsky do what he wants, he won't beat you. Keep Booker, Oubre, and Rubio from taking over the game and you'll be in a good spot to take the game at the end. They did that and it worked. On to the next one.

This Grizzlies game won't define the season. If anything it just says what's already known, the Suns need an interior presence in the worst way. Good thing they have a 7 foot stud returning in a week.