Grizzlies trying to dump...

[thegrahamcrackr]

Dude, it was a joke. But I have to admit, I get a kick out of Andy's persistent reminders that Brown got a "favorite sun" MVP vote.

Hey, I am just saying that if we let an independant outside source vote -- it seems like PJ Brown would win because after all, he did get a vote for MVP.


Of course, I think Richardson is a much better player and would take him over Brown any day. I really wanted Brown when he was last an FA, maybe 3 summers ago? Not so much anymore.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think that Chandler would be the perfect foil for Amare; all he does is get rebounds and average around 2 blocks a game. Not only that, he is effective in running the floor. His back problems are troublesome, but he only appeared to miss a few games last year.

I could be wrong, of course, but after the Hardaway fiasco, I just don't see the Suns pursuing someone with chronic injury issues.

His situation is completely different than Hardaway's, and he played the entire year without injury. Yes, there is some risk involved, but Chandler's upside is very high, and his main focus, rebounding and defense exactly what we need.

 

[elindholm]

Hardaway had been healthy the entire year before the Suns acquired him as well. And given that he'd already been All-NBA, I'd have to say that his "upside" then was at least as great as Chandler's now. Chandler appears to fill a great need for the Suns now, but Hardaway appeared to fill a great need then.

 

[asudevil83]

if we are looking at some "probable" (and i use that term EXTREMELY LOOSELY.....then what about something along these lines:

Phoenix Rrades: $9,300,000
Q - $6,300,000
Voskul - $2,000,000
Barbosa - $1,000,000
#57

Phoenix Recieves: $10,530,000
Jamaal Magloire - $8,530,000
Jarvis Hayes - $2,000,000
#33

New Orleans Trades: $8,530,000
Jamaal Magloire - $8,530,000
#33

New Orleans Recieves: $6,500,000
Kwame Brown - $5,500,000
Barbosa - $1,000,000
#57

Washington Trades: $7,500,000
Kwame Brown - $5,500,000 (S&T 5 year $32.5mil)
Jarvis Hayes - $2,000,000

Washington Recieves: $8,300,000
Q - $6,300,000
Voskul - $2,000,000

We get a starting C. It's nice having Magloire for a few reasons. he has no real health issues (the only thing that's kept him out is a shattered finger). additionally, he only has two years left on his contract. at that time, hopefully we'll have found a draft pick that can fill the starting role for us. Hayes provides us with a nice backup at SG for JJ.

New Orleans gets a younger, cheaper starting C. Kwame's only real issue is confidence. here, in NO, he can develop without having the weight of any real expectations for this team coming into play for at least two years. Barbosa provides them with a developing PG/SG. with the late second rounder, they can find someone to backup at SG/PG.

Washington gets rid of a backup C. Q provides them with a nice SF to compliment their starting lineup. Haywood/Jamison/Q/Hughes/Arenas is pretty damn good.

--------------------------------------

we can then look at swapping first rounders with Memphis. since we are giving up our first rounder this year, the next first we can trade is our 2007. maybe a swap of that pick for their 2005 pick might work. we could throw in some cash for good measure.

we'd then have 3 pretty nice picks.....#19, #21, #33
#19 - Charlie Villanueva - gives us a big backup PF. tough inside. he does lack some consistancy
#21 - Andrey Blatche - young kid....still a big project. plays from the outside. no inside moves on defense or offense.
#33 - Julius Hodge - very versitile.....kind of like Penny. can play PG/SG/SF. also a decent rebounder and passer.

our new lineup would be pretty nice, a mix of veteran talent and young developing players.

Magloire/Hunter/Blatche
Amare/Villanueva/Blatche
Marion/Jimmy J/Hodge
JJ/Hayes/Hodge
Nash/JJ/Hodge

if need be....we can spend part of the MLE on a veteran PG. Knight might be a nice option. he's a pass first guy. maybe a 3 year $10mil contract. that would give us a nice 12 man rotation and a reasonable total salary of $57mil.

 

[elindholm]

I think it's very unlikely that New Orleans will let Magloire go, unless he starts raising a huge stink about wanting to leave. They already dumped Davis, so if they lose Magloire, they have basically nothing to build around. And furthermore, Magloire's injury and erratic play last year lowered his value, so the Hornets wouldn't even be able to get that much for him.

I could see them parting with P. J. Brown, since he'll be retired by the time the team is any good. But I think they have to keep Magloire at pretty much all costs.

I like the idea of going after Hayes, however. Is there any indication that he could be available?

 

[asudevil83]

I think it's very unlikely that New Orleans will let Magloire go, unless he starts raising a huge stink about wanting to leave. They already dumped Davis, so if they lose Magloire, they have basically nothing to build around. And furthermore, Magloire's injury and erratic play last year lowered his value, so the Hornets wouldn't even be able to get that much for him.

I could see them parting with P. J. Brown, since he'll be retired by the time the team is any good. But I think they have to keep Magloire at pretty much all costs.

I like the idea of going after Hayes, however. Is there any indication that he could be available?

i dont know if PJ would be all that great of a pickup. he'd provide some veteran leadership, but i dont think he'd fit in with our system. i honestly dont know if he could run with this team....because i havent seen him play much.

Magloire on the other hand has been talked about going to Toronto....where he's from. but all the trades that i've seen involving him are not that good. stuff like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, and Araujo for Magloire, with some involving swapping lotto picks.

 

[elindholm]

Magloire on the other hand has been talked about going to Toronto....where he's from. but all the trades that i've seen involving him are not that good. stuff like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, and Araujo for Magloire, with some involving swapping lotto picks.

Right, which is a clue that the "rumors" of Magloire to Toronto are probably bogus.

 

[fordronken]

Right, which is a clue that the "rumors" of Magloire to Toronto are probably bogus.

Here's the thing. Nobody's unattainable if you make a good enough offer. Here's another proposal because I'm frustrated and bored. It changes the makeup of our team, but offers the opportunity for a more legitimate lineup.

Here's the thing. If this team is going to win a championship, Amare is going to have to lead them. So, putting him in a conventional lineup, in the end, is a much better solution. Thus, here's my new and about to be poo-pooed trade scenario.

Phoenix trades:
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson

New Orleans trades:
Jamaal Magloire
P.J. Brown
J.R. Smith

The Hornets get some serious talent here, and the Suns get to build the following potential lineup:

C: Jamaal Magloire
PF: Amare Stoudemire
SF: Joe Johnson
SG: Jim Jackson
PG: Steve Nash

Bench:
J.R. Smith
P.J. Brown
Leandro Barbosa
(maybe) Steven Hunter
First round pick(Blatche, Petro, other)

Eventually, if hopes hold true, J.R. Smith would evolve into Jim Jackson's spot in the starting lineup and the Suns would have a pretty great lineup which could actually get stops in the low post, prevent penetration off lay ups and maybe even get a freaking defensive rebound.

Fire away.

 

[hcsilla]

I think it's very unlikely that New Orleans will let Magloire go, unless he starts raising a huge stink about wanting to leave. They already dumped Davis, so if they lose Magloire, they have basically nothing to build around.

They have basically nothing to build around even if Magloire plays for them, IMO.
He is a very nice complementary player but simply not talented enough to be a cornerstone of a young, rebuilding team.

And furthermore, Magloire's injury and erratic play last year lowered his value

He broken his finger which has hardly any influence on his value.

 

[hcsilla]

Right, which is a clue that the "rumors" of Magloire to Toronto are probably bogus.

I think that Alston, Murray, #7 for Magloire makes sense for both teams.

 

[JS22]

Here's the thing. Nobody's unattainable if you make a good enough offer. Here's another proposal because I'm frustrated and bored. It changes the makeup of our team, but offers the opportunity for a more legitimate lineup.

Here's the thing. If this team is going to win a championship, Amare is going to have to lead them. So, putting him in a conventional lineup, in the end, is a much better solution. Thus, here's my new and about to be poo-pooed trade scenario.

Phoenix trades:
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson

New Orleans trades:
Jamaal Magloire
P.J. Brown
J.R. Smith

The Hornets get some serious talent here, and the Suns get to build the following potential lineup:

C: Jamaal Magloire
PF: Amare Stoudemire
SF: Joe Johnson
SG: Jim Jackson
PG: Steve Nash

Bench:
J.R. Smith
P.J. Brown
Leandro Barbosa
(maybe) Steven Hunter
First round pick(Blatche, Petro, other)

Eventually, if hopes hold true, J.R. Smith would evolve into Jim Jackson's spot in the starting lineup and the Suns would have a pretty great lineup which could actually get stops in the low post, prevent penetration off lay ups and maybe even get a freaking defensive rebound.

Fire away.

I dont know. I think the Suns should just keep the team the way it is, make a few bench tweaks, and go from there. You're basically changing the entire team.

 

[fordronken]

I dont know. I think the Suns should just keep the team the way it is, make a few bench tweaks, and go from there. You're basically changing the entire team.

That's true. But I also don't want to have the second or third best team in the league for three or four years in a row and then say "Yeah, I guess the critics were right."

 

[elindholm]

Phoenix trades:
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson

New Orleans trades:
Jamaal Magloire
P.J. Brown
J.R. Smith

No thanks. I'm probably not in favor of a trade anyway, but the ones I'd think about would at least keep intact the general "flavor" of the team, which is a bunch of young guys who run fast. With this trade, the top seven players would include three in their 30s (Nash, Jackson, Brown), which would mean a short window of opportunity.

Richardson for a role-playing F/C doesn't bother me, since Richardson isn't essential to the Suns being what they are. Marion for a real C bothers me more, but might not be a complete disaster, since the Suns would still have both Johnson and Richardson. But to trade both away would be a serious error, a desperate longshot when the team probably isn't that far from being where it needs to be.

 

[asudevil83]

something that i probably would NEVER do but would be pretty damn interesting would be something like:

1.) Marion/Q for Dalambert/Iggy/Mashburn
2.) We then trade our 2007 first rounder to Memphis for their 2005 first #19.
3.) Then we trade Voskul/Barbosa/#21 for Alston/#16
4.) Sign Marko Jaric to the MLE
5.) Draft Charlie Villanueva/Frye with the #16 and Blatche with the #19.

new lineup:

Dalamber/Hunter/Blatche
Amare/Villanueva or Frye/Blatche
JJ/Jimmy J
Iggy/Jaric
Nash/Alston

this starting lineup would the funnest in the league to watch. Iggy would give us some defense that we need in the backcourt, while dalambert would give us some presence up front. Alston would be a bit risky though. he could turn out to be a quality replacement for nash down the road though.

this kinda sets us back a year or so, but this is a solid core that doesnt have to worry about finances for some years down the road. we'd be set and under $60mil with more than 8 guy under contract until the end of the 07/08 season.

as far has having marshburn goes...i think he's done done. he hasnt played sinse march of 04, and because its injury related insurrance picks up 80% of he contract starting next march (the two year anniversary), and i believe that it also gets taken off our cap figure.....but i'm not totally sure.

i'm not suggesting that we do this....because is pretty much rebuilding the team again.

 

[fordronken]

No thanks. I'm probably not in favor of a trade anyway, but the ones I'd think about would at least keep intact the general "flavor" of the team, which is a bunch of young guys who run fast. With this trade, the top seven players would include three in their 30s (Nash, Jackson, Brown), which would mean a short window of opportunity.

Richardson for a role-playing F/C doesn't bother me, since Richardson isn't essential to the Suns being what they are. Marion for a real C bothers me more, but might not be a complete disaster, since the Suns would still have both Johnson and Richardson. But to trade both away would be a serious error, a desperate longshot when the team probably isn't that far from being where it needs to be.

Keep in mind that as early as next year, J.R. Smith could be a lot better than Richardson, and in the mean time, Jim Jackson is certainly a more versatile option.

I'm not necessarily 100 percent in favor of the trade either. However, I'm starting to worry about the chances of this type of team ever winning a championship. And to be honest, the longer we wait, the lesser chance of trading any of our core guys for a legit center.

Also, as for the "top seven including three in their 30s", I have a couple of contentions. First of all, two of those three are going to be on our team anyway. And secondly, without the trade, we don't even really have a 7th guy. Lastly of course, we would have two very young players with pretty good potential(one more than the other) to turn into good players(one of whom isn't even in our top 7).

Again, my biggest concern is whether or not this team, which can maybe beat 28 other teams in a seven game series, is capable of doing it against 29. I'm beginning to think that there is less room for error in a team that has to go small most minutes out of 48, and that in the end, there will end up being one better team with a conventional lineup every year. In fact, it may end up being the same team every year.

Edit: Sorry for the rambling, but I think it's still somewhat coherent. Whew, do I need more sleep or what?

 

[PhxGametime]

I don't think the Suns should do anything too drastic, I wouldn't Trade Shawn Marion at all... IMO the Suns could use a F/C but to Trade Marion takes away the skillball line-up away (that got team 62 wins). Maybe something minor to get a PF that can slide to Center and give Marion more minutes at SF but still have the 5 skillball line-up, which goes along way to get team another strong regular season, but that can play bigball in Playoffs (when need be)...


Dalembert, Marshall, Chandler, Curry, Gooden, Harrington, Okafor, Ely, Howard, Haywood, K Brown, Swift, Magloire, Nene, Abdur-Rahim, Humphries, Boozer, Wilcox, Mihm, etc.

Jeffries, Bender, B Cook, Lampe, etc. If the Suns decide they need a big that can shoot, I only listed a few... been going through book for an hour, at least it seems it...


The Suns don't need to become the best defensive team in League in 1 year but rebounding and a 4/5 that can score and maybe not a defensive stopper but the first List, could all slow down some of the bigs better than always going small and most can score enough, to not hurt team.

Draft the best available Prospect, to the style of play, that fits the need, etc. The Suns aren't stupid, they are bound to Draft someone in the direction they want to go, but IMO needs to fit system - the Suns do Draft well... although a few of the International have been question marks (Jacobsen is even close to International type of player)... RULE THEM OUT, if you have-to - Splitter may be the only defensive minded Prospect out there, although Leni-Ukic uses his feet well and fits system. No all offense, no defense - Prospects don't need to be added...


Kwame Brown and Stromile Swift could be added potentially in FA. The Lakers are bound to want to Trade a lot of their players and Mihm could become available... he may not be great but the Lakers would want #21 obviously, and he has a cheap contract. If Suns Trade #21, JJack, Voskuhl (the only 2 I know that would fit capwise) - at least get something more than just Mihm, they have 2 early 2nd Rounders or I'm sure they have a few decent pieces...

 

[Joe Mama]

Absolutely I think Richardson is better than PJ Brown. No question.

According to who??

it's according to whom Captain Grammar.

I hope everybody realizes that the Phoenix Suns are not going to make any major roster moves. They will not be trading Shawn Marion. They will do not be trading Quentin Richardson. At least they won't be trading any of their starting 5 anytime soon. If there are any changes to the starting roster it will be because JJ got away... not because of one of the other players being traded.

Joe Mama

 

[jandaman]

Marion is my favourite Sun, but if the suns can somehow trade Marion to Philly for Dalembert and Iggy (who is a top 5 favourite player of mine). I would be happy, Marion will get his 20/10, Iverson gets his ultimate side kick.

The suns dont lose atheletism, only loses experience, since Iggy is like an inferior version of Marion but Dalmbert makes it up.


Iggy + Dalembert + Jamal Mashburn (contract expiring) for Q + Marion

I like it.. Im gonna try that out now in NBA live and ESPN.

 

[cly2tw]

Marion + pick for Dalembert, Iggy and filler would be the perfect for the Suns. But do the Sixers want that?

Skiles knows Marion well. Maybe he can be talked into trading Chandler+Deng for him.

For those who wants to keep Marion, we probably disagree on one major issue with this team: How much offense should be going through Nash next season? Spurs showed us that they have it figured out so that they can win games with their game plan. Despite high scores in the first two games, they managed to cut off the easy passing lanes for Nash and got a lot of turnovers consequently. Some of the posters here are now in favor to greatly divert the offense next season, channelling it much more to others particularly Amare. If we do this route, Marion's offensive value will be greatly discounted since his offense depended so much on Nash's vision and space created. That's reason I am inclined to trade him when his market value is at the highest.

 

[Joe Mama]

It seems like people in the media and more curiously on this message board have totally forgotten that the Phoenix Suns lost two close games without one of their key players. On top of that they play the Game 1 just 40 hours after winning a hardfought Game 6 in overtime on the road.

Assuming they can re-sign JJ do not need to make major moves. They won't. they will try off the best player available, and use that pick along with free agency to strengthen their bench. That was their weakness. That's what's killed though more than anything. You don't blow up a team that just took the NBA by storm, made it to the conference finals, and did it all in their first year together as a group.

Joe Mama

 

[Kolo]

It seems like people in the media and more curiously on this message board have totally forgotten that the Phoenix Suns lost two close games without one of their key players. On top of that they play the Game 1 just 40 hours after winning a hardfought Game 6 in overtime on the road.

Assuming they can re-sign JJ do not need to make major moves. They won't. they will try off the best player available, and use that pick along with free agency to strengthen their bench. That was their weakness. That's what's killed though more than anything. You don't blow up a team that just took the NBA by storm, made it to the conference finals, and did it all in their first year together as a group.

Joe Mama

Exactly--and we had that success with the youngest starting 5 in the league. Almost every championship team has growing pains--it took Jordan and the Bulls a few years of playoff experience and minor roster moves to get by the Pistons in the late 80's. After we re-sign JJ and extend Amare, we'll have the core together another five years at least. If D'Antoni's system doesn't lead to a title in the next three or four years, then consider big changes (assuming we don't win the next 4 games against San Antonio and then sweep the Heat).

 

[devilalum]

The Griz trying to dump their #19 pick says a lot about the value of the Suns #21 pick. If the Suns find a player the quality of Leandro Barbosa at #21 they'll be lucky.

The Suns may draft a high school player but what they really need is a guy who can give them a few quality minutes a game.

 

[devilalum]

something that i probably would NEVER do but would be pretty damn interesting would be something like:

1.) Marion/Q for Dalambert/Iggy/Mashburn
2.) We then trade our 2007 first rounder to Memphis for their 2005 first #19.
3.) Then we trade Voskul/Barbosa/#21 for Alston/#16
4.) Sign Marko Jaric to the MLE
5.) Draft Charlie Villanueva/Frye with the #16 and Blatche with the #19.

new lineup:

Dalamber/Hunter/Blatche
Amare/Villanueva or Frye/Blatche
JJ/Jimmy J
Iggy/Jaric
Nash/Alston

this starting lineup would the funnest in the league to watch. Iggy would give us some defense that we need in the backcourt, while dalambert would give us some presence up front. Alston would be a bit risky though. he could turn out to be a quality replacement for nash down the road though.

this kinda sets us back a year or so, but this is a solid core that doesnt have to worry about finances for some years down the road. we'd be set and under $60mil with more than 8 guy under contract until the end of the 07/08 season.

as far has having marshburn goes...i think he's done done. he hasnt played sinse march of 04, and because its injury related insurrance picks up 80% of he contract starting next march (the two year anniversary), and i believe that it also gets taken off our cap figure.....but i'm not totally sure.

i'm not suggesting that we do this....because is pretty much rebuilding the team again.

The Suns trading Q for Iggy would be ironically idiotic.

 

[devilalum]

Phoenix trades:
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson

New Orleans trades:
Jamaal Magloire
P.J. Brown
J.R. Smith

.

I want to see the Suns win it all as much as anybody but I also want to see them try AT LEAST one more year of high octane ball. Watching the current Suns team play 90+ games was incredible. I couldn't wait for the next game all season. Do you think Pistons fans can say the same?

Making this trade would turn the Suns into just another slow ugly NBA abomination and I don't think it makes them better either.

 

[Chaplin]

Keep in mind that as early as next year, J.R. Smith could be a lot better than Richardson, and in the mean time, Jim Jackson is certainly a more versatile option.

I'm not necessarily 100 percent in favor of the trade either. However, I'm starting to worry about the chances of this type of team ever winning a championship. And to be honest, the longer we wait, the lesser chance of trading any of our core guys for a legit center.

Also, as for the "top seven including three in their 30s", I have a couple of contentions. First of all, two of those three are going to be on our team anyway. And secondly, without the trade, we don't even really have a 7th guy. Lastly of course, we would have two very young players with pretty good potential(one more than the other) to turn into good players(one of whom isn't even in our top 7).

Again, my biggest concern is whether or not this team, which can maybe beat 28 other teams in a seven game series, is capable of doing it against 29. I'm beginning to think that there is less room for error in a team that has to go small most minutes out of 48, and that in the end, there will end up being one better team with a conventional lineup every year. In fact, it may end up being the same team every year.

Edit: Sorry for the rambling, but I think it's still somewhat coherent. Whew, do I need more sleep or what?

This post smacks of defeatism. If this team had been together 3 years already and had a horrid record against San Antonio, then I think your post applies. But right now? Ridiculous.

What will this team be like next year? It will be pretty awesome, actually--we'll see A LOT of national games on television and a lot of attention on us. We will have a year of experience under our belts. We will have a legitimate MVP candidate in Amare Stoudemire. We will have 4 guys worth of being All-Stars.

Next year might not see a big difference in who's on the team, but the Phoenix Suns in 2005-2006 are going to be one of the top 3 teams in the NBA. Count on it. I guarantee our chances in this series would have increased tenfold if this team had a year of experience under their belts.