Haason Reddick

[kerouac9]

To a certain extent you’re right. Budda is really a box safety. But he’s undersized and we spent a 2nd on him (right?). He’s not a playmaker and I question how valuable he is in today’s game. No doubt he’s overhyped and overvalued by a lot of people on this board. And Reddick just sucks. Both of these players are guys you look to replace. You can live with budda in the right position but you’ll never actually be “happy” with what he brings to the table. Reddick is just bad.

I think that if Budda can be the 6th best player on a really quality defense. To a great extent, this is what he was his first season when he played really well. He's a homeless man's Honey Badger.

Reddick can be the 8th best player on a good defense. You'd like more than that from a mid-first round pick, but someone has to be that.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think that if Budda can be the 6th best player on a really quality defense. To a great extent, this is what he was his first season when he played really well. He's a homeless man's Honey Badger.

Reddick can be the 8th best player on a good defense. You'd like more than that from a mid-first round pick, but someone has to be that.

I agree.

Budda has his strengths...... But then he makes a horrible decision in coverage on a TE last week (Ellison) and then a horrible decision again this week (Hill). His strengths have been completely overshadowed IMO.

As for Reddick...... If your taught to do something and then you don't do it....... You deserve to get benched.

Keim deserves to be fired..... Period. Nkemdiche, & Reddick have made that very clear IMO. And we need to manage the cap in a better way as well...... alot of the FO should be churned IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

He’s right.

But come on Walker is much worse than Reddick imo & it isn’t even close. He’s absolutely terrible! Walker couldn’t cover my pass away grandma, at least Reddick would be in the area code. Our defense just got worse imo.

But I guess Vance knows better than me his soft 15 yard zone coverages are working fantastic lol

You can't have players who compromise your scheme. Respect for Vance being willing to play a less talented player to be scheme sound. That's the Patriot way.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Arz101]

Keim preparing for 2020 first-round pick:

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[Zeem_Freeze]

I think that if Budda can be the 6th best player on a really quality defense. To a great extent, this is what he was his first season when he played really well. He's a homeless man's Honey Badger.

Reddick can be the 8th best player on a good defense. You'd like more than that from a mid-first round pick, but someone has to be that.

Yeah it sounds like we mostly agree here. You can build around Budda and Im not sure he can be easily replaced. If it wasnt for our pricey FA addition of Hicks, then Budda would be leading this team in tackles.

Reddick can be easily replaced and is another indictment of Keim. Maybe we move him to OLB like we should've at the start of the year?

 

[Chopper0080]

Budda isn't a liability to the integrity of the scheme while Reddick is...that is the big difference between the two.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah it sounds like we mostly agree here. You can build around Budda and Im not sure he can be easily replaced. If it wasnt for our pricey FA addition of Hicks, then Budda would be leading this team in tackles.

Reddick can be easily replaced and is another indictment of Keim. Maybe we move him to OLB like we should've at the start of the year?

it sounds like we disagree quite a bit. IMO, a defense has three or four players you build around and the rest are complementary pieces. Baker is a complementary piece. Hicks is, too. Neither of those guys are cornerstones to a good defense.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What do we expect from a guy who played RB/S in high school, DE in college, and who we expected to learn a new position at ILB in the NFL?

We expect him not to be drafted in the 1st round to play ILBer

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

To a certain extent you’re right. Budda is really a box safety. But he’s undersized and we spent a 2nd on him (right?). He’s not a playmaker and I question how valuable he is in today’s game. No doubt he’s overhyped and overvalued by a lot of people on this board. And Reddick just sucks. Both of these players are guys you look to replace. You can live with budda in the right position but you’ll never actually be “happy” with what he brings to the table. Reddick is just bad.

Baker is a second round pick AND the Cardinals traded ip to get him.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[Dr. Jones]

it sounds like we disagree quite a bit. IMO, a defense has three or four players you build around and the rest are complementary pieces. Baker is a complementary piece. Hicks is, too. Neither of those guys are cornerstones to a good defense.

And it helps if you have one of those pieces at each level of the defense. CB/S, LB, & DL/OLB

We have two by my count on defense (PP & CJ). Also one 5th best (Hicks).... And then a bunch of 8th to 11th best guys. Byron seems the only one of the lot to have top 5 promise IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah...I put up something like this in the past, but I will do it again...

Playmakers
1-Chandler Jones - OLB
2-Patrick Peterson - CB
3-
4-

Key Pieces
5-Jordan Hicks - ILB
6-Corey Peters - DT
7-
8-

Replaceable Parts
9-Budda Baker - S
10-Terrell Suggs - OLB
11-

This is the current state of our defense today. Too early to tell on Zach Allen, Byron Murphy, Dionte Thompson, and Jalen Thompson. I think Byron Murphy and Zach Allen can end the year in the Key Pieces/Replaceable Parts category. I think Robert Alford can be a Replaceable Part if healthy. Past this, we need quality bodies.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

it sounds like we disagree quite a bit. IMO, a defense has three or four players you build around and the rest are complementary pieces. Baker is a complementary piece. Hicks is, too. Neither of those guys are cornerstones to a good defense.

Ok, I guess we do disagree quite a bit.

I would consider our #1 and #2 tacklers as guys to build around. You apparently dont think anyone on this defense is worth keeping. Glad you aren't GM because we have a few pieces. (Jones, PP, Hicks, Budda, and Murphy are worth keeping).

Hicks was literally just one of the most sought after FA linebackers and many pointed to him as the best player on the Eagles defense. HICKS IS CURRENTLY 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN TACKLES. let me say that again. HICKS IS CURRENTLY 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN TACKLES. but yeah sure, trade him away, he's not worth building around.

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2019ILB.php

Budda could be a top SS free agent target in 2021 if we let him walk. He's 13th in the league in tackles right now and 3rd for safeties, mostly from the deep FS position which he is not suited for.

 

[Russ Smith]

In all seriousness if he didn't have a 1st round contract I'd say try and convert him to TE. But he can't catch either

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Yeah...I put up something like this in the past, but I will do it again...

Playmakers
1-Chandler Jones - OLB
2-Patrick Peterson - CB
3-
4-

Key Pieces
5-Jordan Hicks - ILB
6-Corey Peters - DT
7-
8-

Replaceable Parts
9-Budda Baker - S
10-Terrell Suggs - OLB
11-

This is the current state of our defense today. Too early to tell on Zach Allen, Byron Murphy, Dionte Thompson, and Jalen Thompson. I think Byron Murphy and Zach Allen can end the year in the Key Pieces/Replaceable Parts category. I think Robert Alford can be a Replaceable Part if healthy. Past this, we need quality bodies.

2nd leading tackler in the league isnt a play maker? (Hicks)
3rd leading safety and 13th overall leading tackler is replaceable? (Budda)

we agree on all other facets though. Suggs is so replaceable it hurts. If only we had a quick edge guy drafted in the first round...

 

[Proximo]

it sounds like we disagree quite a bit. IMO, a defense has three or four players you build around and the rest are complementary pieces. Baker is a complementary piece. Hicks is, too. Neither of those guys are cornerstones to a good defense.

I have no idea why you would say that about Hicks. He has been great. 2nd leading tackler in the NFL this season. He is someone to build around.

Baker is clearly bad against the pass, but he does play the run well, and is a reliable tackler in space. Yes he is flawed, but he is way down the list of problems with our defense.

 

[BigRedRage]

Budda had a good game because he was being used more appropriately. I do not see him as part of the problem, moreso being played out of position because of the other problems.

 

[Arz101]

Budda had a good game because he was being used more appropriately. I do not see him as part of the problem, moreso being played out of position because of the other problems.

Budda is neither a problem nor a solution. This means, once his rookie contract is up there is a new home waiting for Budda.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

I have no idea why you would say that about Hicks. He has been great. 2nd leading tackler in the NFL this season. He is someone to build around.

Baker is clearly bad against the pass, but he does play the run well, and is a reliable tackler in space. Yes he is flawed, but he is way down the list of problems with our defense.

I honestly think this is the thought process for some members here:

*Hicks or Budda makes a tackle*
"oh my god, he must've gotten beat/burned so he had to make a tackle. wow that guy sucks, he's always making tackles"

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Budda is neither a problem nor a solution. This means, once his rookie contract is up there is a new home waiting for Budda.

He's 13th in the league in tackles.... we'll be in a bidding war for his services if we dont extend

 

[BigRedRage]

it is good he makes the tackles but he only has so many tackles because our Dline sucks and the RB gets to him every play.

The position is called a safety because it is the last line of defense but he is the first on half the running plays that happen.

 

[kerouac9]

People who are citing tackling stats... I just don't know what to say. Have you not paid attention to football in the last 15 years?

Tackles are an unofficial stat and don't really show anything other than you tackled a guy -- somewhere on the field. They're agnostic as to whether you crushed a running back in the backfield on 3rd and 2 or dragged someone out of bounds after a 24 yard gain. It's insane that people are citing it.

The Cards' defense is 29th in DVOA and 26th in rush defense DVOA. Baker and Hicks are two productive players in a very bad defense. Congrats(?).

Some people like to look at "Splash plays" which are (roughly) TFLs, Sacks, Forced Fumbles, Passes Defensed, and INTs. I like that as a better statistical measure for off-the-ball players, but it's still not perfect. FootballOutsiders has a metric that looks at where the tackles are made, and I like that better, as well.

 

[TJ]

If a safety is 13th in the league in tackles, and he has like one TFL, that says either he’s getting burned in coverage a lot or he’s compensating for a poor run defense.

these are not good things

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah...I put up something like this in the past, but I will do it again...

Playmakers
1-Chandler Jones - OLB
2-Patrick Peterson - CB
3-
4-

Key Pieces
5-Jordan Hicks - ILB
6-Corey Peters - DT
7-
8-

Replaceable Parts
9-Budda Baker - S
10-Terrell Suggs - OLB
11-

This is the current state of our defense today. Too early to tell on Zach Allen, Byron Murphy, Dionte Thompson, and Jalen Thompson. I think Byron Murphy and Zach Allen can end the year in the Key Pieces/Replaceable Parts category. I think Robert Alford can be a Replaceable Part if healthy. Past this, we need quality bodies.

Nice breakdown, I tend to agree.

I gave Reddick one last chance, but dude just hasn't stepped up.

The 3 game winning streak was nice, but the team came back to earth this past Sunday. I hope Michael takes a long hard look at the problem over the past few years.

At one point, Keim was batting .300 with a lot of homeruns. Now he is batting .215 and the homeruns arent as often, and are now usually only doubles.

Time to move on. I'm scared that the Cardinals are going to have a losing streak come up, and will somehow close out the season with 2-3 nice wins and Michael will think the team is on track.

Murray will be a homerun. I think he has the potential to be a franchise QB for a long time. But Keim shouldn't get too much credit; he is the same guy who whiffed on Rosen and may have whiffed on a 2nd rounder, a trade for a RT, and numerous 1st and 2nd round picks over his tenure.

The most maddening part of the Keim era is how many solid veterans he has let go of, often now fully replacing their production. Golden is a solid #2/3 pass rush option.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

People who are citing tackling stats... I just don't know what to say. Have you not paid attention to football in the last 15 years?

Tackles are an unofficial stat and don't really show anything other than you tackled a guy -- somewhere on the field. They're agnostic as to whether you crushed a running back in the backfield on 3rd and 2 or dragged someone out of bounds after a 24 yard gain. It's insane that people are citing it.

The Cards' defense is 29th in DVOA and 26th in rush defense DVOA. Baker and Hicks are two productive players in a very bad defense. Congrats(?).

Some people like to look at "Splash plays" which are (roughly) TFLs, Sacks, Forced Fumbles, Passes Defensed, and INTs. I like that as a better statistical measure for off-the-ball players, but it's still not perfect. FootballOutsiders has a metric that looks at where the tackles are made, and I like that better, as well.

we greatly disagree on this. take a look at the ESPN link below showing tackling statistics. I dont have access to FootballOutisders so if you could provide some color that'd be great.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/table/defensive/sort/totalTackles/dir/desc

Have you guys forgot that tackling is the whole point of defense? do these guys suck?

Blake Martinez #1 - lock for the probowl this year
Jordan Hicks #2
Bobby Wagner #3 - 5 time probowler
Joe Schobert#4 - 1 pro bowl
Luke Kuechly #5 - 6 time probowler
Landon Collins #6 - 3 time probowler
DeVondre Campbell #7
KJ Wright #8 - 1 probowl
Eric Kendricks #9 - all rookie team
Rashaan Evans #10 - 2nd year player about to stack some accolades
Cory Littleton # 11 - probowler
Shawn Williams #12
Nick Vigil #13
Budda Baker #14 - probowler


While number of tackles certainly doesnt paint the whole picture, I think that list speaks for itself. It is loaded with talented players.

Have I watched football in the last 15 years? ummm yes and tackling is the whole point of defense. Lots of tackles is absolutely a good thing.

 

[kerouac9]

we greatly disagree on this. take a look at the ESPN link below showing tackling statistics. I dont have access to FootballOutisders so if you could provide some color that'd be great.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/table/defensive/sort/totalTackles/dir/desc

Have you guys forgot that tackling is the whole point of defense? do these guys suck?

Blake Martinez #1 - lock for the probowl this year
Jordan Hicks #2
Bobby Wagner #3 - 5 time probowler
Joe Schobert#4 - 1 pro bowl
Luke Kuechly #5 - 6 time probowler
Landon Collins #6 - 3 time probowler
DeVondre Campbell #7
KJ Wright #8 - 1 probowl
Eric Kendricks #9 - all rookie team
Rashaan Evans #10 - 2nd year player about to stack some accolades
Cory Littleton # 11 - probowler
Shawn Williams #12
Nick Vigil #13
Budda Baker #14 - probowler


While number of tackles certainly doesnt paint the whole picture, I think that list speaks for itself. It is loaded with talented players.

Have I watched football in the last 15 years? ummm yes and tackling is the whole point of defense. Lots of tackles is absolutely a good thing.

LOL.

Blake Martinez got a lot of tackles the last 2 years — for defenses that finished 22nd and 26th in scoring. He sucks.
Joe Schobert went to the Pro Bowl in a season where the Browns won 0 games and were the 31st-ranked defense in the NFL. Yes, he sucks.

Devondre Campbell plays for perhaps the worst defense in the NFL. Did you notice him at all when we played him just two weeks ago? He had 8 solo tackles. He allowed a 136.1 passer rating the 6 times he was targeted(!!!!!) Here were the results of each tackle:

• Kyler Murray pass complete short right to Maxx Williams for 6 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell) (resulted in a first down)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short left to Chase Edmonds for 31 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell) (David Johnson Scored on the next play from 1 yard out)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short right to Pharoh Cooper for 7 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell) (resulted in a first down)
• Chase Edmonds right end for 15 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell and Ricardo Allen) (resulted in a first down)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Pharoh Cooper for 6 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short right to Charles Clay for 6 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell) (4th down conversion)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Larry Fitzgerald for 7 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell and Damontae Kazee)
• Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Larry Fitzgerald for 3 yards (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell)
  
• David Johnson up the middle for no gain (tackle by De'Vondre Campbell)

My math tells me that if De'Vondre Campbell was involved in a tackle, it's likely to have given up about 9 yards. You're not going to win a lot of football games like that.