Hall of Fame Numbers

[PDXChris]

OK, before any one flames me, I am in no way saying Gonzo is a Hall of Famer, he is not close.

With that being said I was think about something and the amount of doubles Gonzo is hitting. Most people think that 500 homers alone will get you in the Hall. I thought that was ok, until I heard something on Cold Pizza this morning that made sence. They asked some writers if they were going to vote for McGwire and Woody Page said no, not because of the steroids, but because he only hit home runs and was not good at anything else. So, I put GOnzo's numbers up against McGwires and I am comparing his doubles to McGwires home runs.

First there are only 13 players to have more than 600 doubles and only 4 to have more than 700. There are 20 players to have 500 home runs and 4 to have 600. McGwire finished 7th in home runs and Gonzo is 27th and should be in the top 20 by the end of the year. If he pays 2 more years after that and only has 30 each year, that will put him in the top 10 in doubles and then will be one of 14 players with at least 600.

Now I want to show side by side numbers and Gonzo is better in most areas and should have more RBI's when it is said and done.

What I am saying with this, is is you base the hall on HR you have to look at other single statistics. Pitchers who win 300 games is one thing, but 600 doubles or 500 homers should not warrent it. Look at how average McGwire was.

 

[AzJc]

comparing Gongo and McGwire, Gongo did play in 400 more games to build the stats, the reason I wouldnt vote for McGwire was his injury problems, he was always getting hurt, and not playing full seasons, but when he did play he did dominate his position, was always in the all-star game, and a very feared hitter

 

[Ryanwb]

Gonzo's career numbers match up pretty well with Jim Rice who I don't think will ever get in, even on Veterns Committee

The problem is, Gonzo had many years of average play and only 2 or 3 years of elite play.

 

[TucsonDevil]

In my opinion, there is more than one reason to vote for McGwire - not just HR total. He shattered one of the great Baseball records of all time - doing it in dramatic fashion. For years leading up 1997, he threatened that record, but was often limited with injuries.

If Gonzo has over 600 doubles AND career .300 hitter, then I think he would have a very good argument. If he had also won the MVP in 2001, it would make a stronger case. Dale Murphy has 2 NL MVP awards, 398 HR, 2111 hits - and did it in the "pre-steriod" era... he can't get into the Hall, and Luis won't either.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Two or three great offensive years (both of which are under suspicion) with consistently below average defense does not a Hall of Famer make.

 

[PDXChris]

Two or three great offensive years (both of which are under suspicion) with consistently below average defense does not a Hall of Famer make.

Thank you, I can say we agree for once. You get my point.

 

[Russ Smith]

All McGwire did was hit HR's? The guy walked over 100 times 5 times and had a near .600 slugging %. I don't think he's a HOF player largely as others said he simply missed too many games. I also personally wouldn't vote for him because I think he cheated, but saying all he did was hit HR's is a bit misleading he was one of the guys that created the Billy Beane philosophy of valuing OBP and SLG at a premium over BA.

 

[AzJc]

Two or three great offensive years (both of which are under suspicion) with consistently below average defense does not a Hall of Famer make.

over his career McGwire averaged 10.6 hr per ab, thats better than 2 or 3 great offensive years

here is a list of McGwires stats


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1986 22 OAK AL 18 53 10 10 1 0 3 9 0 1 4 18 .189 .259 .377 20 0 0 0 1 0
1987 23 OAK AL 151 557 97 161 28 4 49 118 1 1 71 131 .289 .370 .618 344 0 8 8 5 6
1988 24 OAK AL 155 550 87 143 22 1 32 99 0 0 76 117 .260 .352 .478 263 1 4 4 4 15
1989 25 OAK AL 143 490 74 113 17 0 33 95 1 1 83 94 .231 .339 .467 229 0 11 5 3 23
1990 26 OAK AL 156 523 87 123 16 0 39 108 2 1 110 116 .235 .370 .489 256 1 9 9 7 13
1991 27 OAK AL 154 483 62 97 22 0 22 75 2 1 93 116 .201 .330 .383 185 1 5 3 3 13
1992 28 OAK AL 139 467 87 125 22 0 42 104 0 1 90 105 .268 .385 .585 273 0 9 12 5 10
1993 29 OAK AL 27 84 16 28 6 0 9 24 0 1 21 19 .333 .467 .726 61 0 1 5 1 0
1994 30 OAK AL 47 135 26 34 3 0 9 25 0 0 37 40 .252 .413 .474 64 0 0 3 0 3
1995 31 OAK AL 104 317 75 87 13 0 39 90 1 1 88 77 .274 .441 .685 217 0 6 5 11 9
1996 32 OAK AL 130 423 104 132 21 0 52 113 0 0 116 112 .312 .467 .730 309 0 1 16 8 14
1997 33 TOT 156 540 86 148 27 0 58 123 3 0 101 159 .274 .393 .646 349 0 7 16 9 9
OAK AL 105 366 48 104 24 0 34 81 1 0 58 98 .284 .383 .628 230 0 5 8 4 9
STL NL 51 174 38 44 3 0 24 42 2 0 43 61 .253 .411 .684 119 0 2 8 5 0
1998 34 STL NL 155 509 130 152 21 0 70 147 1 0 162 155 .299 .470 .752 383 0 4 28 6 8
1999 35 STL NL 153 521 118 145 21 1 65 147 0 0 133 141 .278 .424 .697 363 0 5 21 2 12
2000 36 STL NL 89 236 60 72 8 0 32 73 1 0 76 78 .305 .483 .746 176 0 2 12 7 5
2001 37 STL NL 97 299 48 56 4 0 29 64 0 0 56 118 .187 .316 .492 147 0 6 3 3 7
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
16 Seasons 6187 1626 6 1414 8 1596 .263 .394 .588 3 78 150 75 147
1874 1167 252 583 12 1317 3639
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
162 Game Avg 535 101 141 22 1 50 122 1 1 114 138 .263 .394 .588 315 0 7 13 6 13
Career High 156 557 130 161 28 4 70 147 3 1 162 159 .312 .483 .752 383 1 11 28 11 23
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP