Harden a Lottery Pick? Hardly...

DWKB

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To get the thread back on track, instead of comparing Harden to some abstract "lottery type player" or coming up with b.s. reasons he should return because you don't like the NBA, why don't you come up with 14 players who have more NBA promise over Harden and are likely to enter the draft next year to prove he's not "lottery caliber".
 

Gaddabout

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Upside:

- Pretty much ready to contribute off the bench for any team in the league.
- Great passer, vision, understanding of space and spacing
- Good shot technique, will improve with focus
- Decent finisher around the hoop
- Fundamentally sound defender with great hands and long arms
- No questions on position -- decent size, skills, can play both 1 and 2
- Decent rebounder. Should rebound more at this level, but he'll pick up a few.
- Will fill the hustle board. Will give you a little bit of everything on the stat sheet.

Downside:
- He is what he is ... short ceiling
- Not a rock star athlete. Doesn't jump out of the building. Won't win foot races.
- Mediocre handles. Improving, but still a far cry from what he needs to be to become an NBA starter.
 

Arizona's Finest

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To get the thread back on track, instead of comparing Harden to some abstract "lottery type player" or coming up with b.s. reasons he should return because you don't like the NBA, why don't you come up with 14 players who have more NBA promise over Harden and are likely to enter the draft next year to prove he's not "lottery caliber".

Good question:
Blake Griffin
Ricky Rubio
Jordan Hill - maybe
Demar Derozen - maybe

Can't think of anyone else off the top of my head.

I don't know why anyone would be wondering whether or not he is a lottery pick. That has as much to do with how good he is as well as talent on available in this years draft.

As I mentioned before I will be shocked if he is not a Top 5 pick.
 

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Fact are the facts ASUChris. After all the s--- talking you guys have done about 5 and 0 you would think you might be able to advance a little further then a team with an interim coach and no players beyond the first three that snuck into the tourney.

But you would be wrong if you thought that sucka. When this season is remembered later on no one will look back to ASwho going 3-0 against my beloved Cats. They will remember the Sweet 16 and possibly more.

As for ASU's season most just won't remember anything.;)

Reality bites Devils fans. And so does Irrelevance.

will you look at the teams you played? get real
 

Ryanwb

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Harden's stats are nearly identical to Mayo's season last year at USC, and I mean nearly exact. There are very few cases of guys who have the integrity to comeback to school to prove themselves again in late season failures over NBA money.

With the internet and satellite television coverage of games there is no longer cases where West coast guys are not seen by East coast guys except in the tournament games. Harden was a lottery pick prior to the season and he will be a top 5 pick in this draft.

My only question is how his camp will spin his performance. Injury is probably the most likely but has to be handled delicately this close to the draft
 

Arizona's Finest

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will you look at the teams you played? get real

What in the hell does that matter in the tournament? Would it be better for you if we beat Wake? Well we beat the team that drubbed them on a neutral court. Also the same team that beat your "other" team AT SYRACUSE.

Utah won both their conference and their conference tournament.

To give you an analogy that you will be understand. We got the Eagles at home in the NFC championship game and we probably should have had to go to NY. Are you giving back the NFC Championship trophy? Hells no. You play who is in front of you. That is especially true in the post season.

I am really not sure what your point is. The draw was favorable and we won both games by 10+. Basketball like all sports is mostly about matchups. We matched up well with those two teams and it showed in the final score. More importantly I feel we match up well with Louisville and KU/MST too. Does that mean we will beat them? No. But we got a punchers chance - which is more then you guys can say.

We aren't supposed to be here and we are. Thats all that matters.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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To get the thread back on track, instead of comparing Harden to some abstract "lottery type player" or coming up with b.s. reasons he should return because you don't like the NBA, why don't you come up with 14 players who have more NBA promise over Harden and are likely to enter the draft next year to prove he's not "lottery caliber".

see, that's why i think he has to come out this year. the draft is going to suck. i don't like harden as a pro and i'm not sure i could come up with 14 guys. last year, yeah, this year, no way. a perfect year for the suns to miss the playoffs (yeesh).
 

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Harden does need to prove that he can carry a team. he disappears all the time in games. it was a knock on him coming into college. He disappeared against USC at home until late, times in the Pac-10 tourney, and the NCAA tourney games, among others

Why does Harden have to prove he can carry a team? He isnt your typical top 5 draft pick this year. This is a weak draft with solid talent and no stars or franchise players right out of the gates.

Harden isnt going to be a teams #1 scoring option and if he one day becomes one it will be due to his development in the NBA and not what he proved at ASU.
 

Mr. Boldin

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Look guys, Harden's game is suited for the NBA. Hes a what 20 year old kid who pretty much dominated the Pac-10 all season long.

He isnt Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, ect. He doesnt need to prove he can carry his team in the last 3 games of the season. He isnt going to be that type of player in the NBA and if he does then he deserves a ton of props for working hard to develop his game.

He has a strong body, finishes well around to rim, has a knack for creating contact and still getting a good look which is extremely valueable in the NBA, he is a good passer, and he never looks out of place. Even when he isnt playing well he still impacts the game by creating looks for his teammates and by playing under control at all times.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Why does Harden have to prove he can carry a team?
He doesn't have to, Harden has already proved he can carry a team because that's what he's been doing for most of the last two seasons. Harden is a lottery lock. End of story.

Somebody should give Harden a little background on Julius Hodge.
 
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Russ Smith

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I would add the kid who's probably going to win the NBA ROY this year, OJ Mayo, didn't exactly carry USC in the postseason last year. They lost to UCLA in the conference tourney largely because UCLA shut down Mayo.

then they lost to K State in the first tourney game largely because K State shut down Mayo.

Guys like Harden simply won't see the level of defensive pressure in the NBA they see in college, they won't get face guarded, they won't see box and ones, they won't get doubled consistently. Very few NBA players see that level of defensive attention, Kobe, LeBron, Wade.

Harden has areas to improve on for sure but he's a lottery pick, especially THIS year.
 

PoolBoy

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What in the hell does that matter in the tournament? Would it be better for you if we beat Wake? Well we beat the team that drubbed them on a neutral court. Also the same team that beat your "other" team AT SYRACUSE.

Utah won both their conference and their conference tournament.

To give you an analogy that you will be understand. We got the Eagles at home in the NFC championship game and we probably should have had to go to NY. Are you giving back the NFC Championship trophy? Hells no. You play who is in front of you. That is especially true in the post season.

I am really not sure what your point is. The draw was favorable and we won both games by 10+. Basketball like all sports is mostly about matchups. We matched up well with those two teams and it showed in the final score. More importantly I feel we match up well with Louisville and KU/MST too. Does that mean we will beat them? No. But we got a punchers chance - which is more then you guys can say.

We aren't supposed to be here and we are. Thats all that matters.

I'm not even going to waste my time with the Cleveland St. beat Syracuse argument. Anyone who saw that game can not take it seriously. Besides, Syracuse loses to a garbage team once a year. We lost to a bad memphis team in 03.

Utah is terrible. How they got a 5 seed i don't know. Bad conference, and they didn't even play anyone.

and Arizona playing the us against the world card is absolutely ridiculous.
 

Covert Rain

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Harden is overrated IMO and has been all season. He is not a lottery pick IMO either. If he goes early it's because the draft sucks this year. If this was a year in which there was a deep draft you might be looking at late first or early second.

They guy didn't show up in the biggest stage in basketball. He needs to learn to take over games instead of letting the game come to him all the time. He won't learn that sitting on an NBA bench somewhere. He needs to stay in college.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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I'm not even going to waste my time with the Cleveland St. beat Syracuse argument. Anyone who saw that game can not take it seriously. Besides, Syracuse loses to a garbage team once a year. We lost to a bad memphis team in 03.
I agree, transitive properties don't apply in sports. Arizona got good matchups and it advanced. Of course so too did in Gonzaga this year and KU last year and ASU in 1995 but in the end nobody really cares except for bitter fans such as yourself.

Utah is terrible. How they got a 5 seed i don't know. Bad conference, and they didn't even play anyone.
Pretty simple really if you follow college hoops. Utah had an RPI of 9, SOS of 27, won their conference regular season and tourney, beat Gonzaga and LSU OOC. That's a 5 seed resume at worst from a numbers standpoint.

and Arizona playing the us against the world card is absolutely ridiculous.
At least Arizona is still playing something. As opposed to ASU who's currently playing the "let's rip Harden so he comes back and maybe gives us a chance to be a bubble team next year" card.
 
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Mr. Boldin

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Harden is overrated IMO and has been all season. He is not a lottery pick IMO either. If he goes early it's because the draft sucks this year. If this was a year in which there was a deep draft you might be looking at late first or early second.

They guy didn't show up in the biggest stage in basketball. He needs to learn to take over games instead of letting the game come to him all the time. He won't learn that sitting on an NBA bench somewhere. He needs to stay in college.

I really cant believe you guys, you have watched him play all year right?

Late first early second in a strong draft? You have to be kidding me.
 

ASUCHRIS

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At least Arizona is still playing something. As opposed to ASU who's currently playing the "let's rip Harden so he comes back and maybe gives us a chance to be a bubble team next year" card.

To ASU? I love these ridiculous generalizations. I think it's almost universal among the ASU community that everyone wishes James the best no matter what he does. Just because a couple of people on a message board post something, doesn't make it fact. For someone so in tune with local sports, you should know this better than anyone. Most ASU fans would love to have Harden back because he made ASU bball relevant, and he mercifully shut up U of A fans for a brief period of time.

I don't even mind U of A winning because I have had lots of friends and family go to U of A, but the arrogance and sense of entitlement of many U of A fans is just out of control. A couple wins over inferior teams and now Cats fans are spouting "We are the story of the tournament right now and coaches at schools other then KU, UK, UNC, UCLA, and Duke would be silly to at least not consider the opportunity at Arizona." Again, U of A is a very good program, BUT U of A IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THESE OTHER TEAMS. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for some Cats fans to grasp.

If U of A does get an elite coach and starts winning like it did with Lute, that would be one thing, but the arrogance that this is a foregone conclusion gets really old.
 

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To ASU? I love these ridiculous generalizations. I think it's almost universal among the ASU community that everyone wishes James the best no matter what he does. Just because a couple of people on a message board post something, doesn't make it fact. For someone so in tune with local sports, you should know this better than anyone. Most ASU fans would love to have Harden back because he made ASU bball relevant, and he mercifully shut up U of A fans for a brief period of time.
Listened to talk radio all afternoon, the majority of people were ripping Harden. Even the majority of this board thinks he should stay and have been overly critical of his skills.

I don't even mind U of A winning because I have had lots of friends and family go to U of A, but the arrogance and sense of entitlement of many U of A fans is just out of control. A couple wins over inferior teams and now Cats fans are spouting "We are the story of the tournament right now and coaches at schools other then KU, UK, UNC, UCLA, and Duke would be silly to at least not consider the opportunity at Arizona." Again, U of A is a very good program, BUT U of A IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THESE OTHER TEAMS. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for some Cats fans to grasp.
We're not in the league of those programs, almost everyone puts us in the second tier with Syracuse, UConn, Florida, Georgetown, etc. And this year's accomplishments didn't get us to that level, we're in that category due to the countless NBA players, 11 Pac-10 titles, four Final Four's, and the National Championship banner hanging in McKale Center. This year is special because the players and coaches polished a turd into a diamond. A season that was supposed to be an obituary for the Arizona program turned into a redemption song for several players and coaches. This squad is a much more likable team than other Arizona Sweet 16 teams who had some poor characters or underachieved. Might be my third favorite Cats squad in the last fifteen years.

If U of A does get an elite coach and starts winning like it did with Lute, that would be one thing, but the arrogance that this is a foregone conclusion gets really old.
Not arrogance, just many of us have a pretty good idea who the finalists are for the job opening and are therefore somewhat confident.
 

DWKB

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Speaking of UK, if they lose to Creighton tonight (and even possibly if they don't) word out is that Billy Clyde is gonzo. UK coaching spot opening up is bad news to UofA IMO despite the psychosis of their alumni/fans.
 

ajcardfan

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Harden would be foolish to return. There's no way I can blame him for seizing an opportunity for some financial security a mere three months from now. You can always go back to school later. I think less of his chances to be a TOP NBA player than I did for Ike Diogu. And, Ike is riding the pine.

That said, if he's crazy enough to return, I'll be glad to have him.
 

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Speaking of UK, if they lose to Creighton tonight (and even possibly if they don't) word out is that Billy Clyde is gonzo. UK coaching spot opening up is bad news to UofA IMO despite the psychosis of their alumni/fans.

That I can agree with. I am hoping UK keeps him for one more year at least.
 

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Speaking of UK, if they lose to Creighton tonight (and even possibly if they don't) word out is that Billy Clyde is gonzo. UK coaching spot opening up is bad news to UofA IMO despite the psychosis of their alumni/fans.
It's good news and bad news. There's more competition for the elite coaches willing to bolt (although how much UK can pay remains to be seen after the $6 million buyout for Gillispie) as a negative. As a positive, that just opens up more recruits to get out of their LOI's this spring to build back up the talent level.

UK's definitely a better job, but Arizona has a five month head start.
 

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We're not in the league of those programs, almost everyone puts us in the second tier with Syracuse, UConn, Florida, Georgetown, etc. And this year's accomplishments didn't get us to that level, we're in that category due to the countless NBA players, 11 Pac-10 titles, four Final Four's, and the National Championship banner hanging in McKale Center. This year is special because the players and coaches polished a turd into a diamond. A season that was supposed to be an obituary for the Arizona program turned into a redemption song for several players and coaches. This squad is a much more likable team than other Arizona Sweet 16 teams who had some poor characters or underachieved. Might be my third favorite Cats squad in the last fifteen years.

:thumbup:

Could not have said it better myself. That is EXACTLY how I feel.
 

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Speaking of UK, if they lose to Creighton tonight (and even possibly if they don't) word out is that Billy Clyde is gonzo. UK coaching spot opening up is bad news to UofA IMO despite the psychosis of their alumni/fans.

Lots of Aggies are quite happy that Gillespie fell on his face at UK. Meanwhile, his replacement at A&M matched his two tournament appearances with a win in each appearance. And, he has some pretty good looking recruits lined up with some talented freshmen on board now. Heady stuff for a school with a TERRIBLE basketball history.

Sometimes, there is justice in this world.
 

DWKB

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Lots of Aggies are quite happy that Gillespie fell on his face at UK. Meanwhile, his replacement at A&M matched his two tournament appearances with a win in each appearance. And, he has some pretty good looking recruits lined up with some talented freshmen on board now. Heady stuff for a school with a TERRIBLE basketball history.

Sometimes, there is justice in this world.

His replacement is a Kansas Jayhawk. Good gene's and all that :D
 

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Harden would be foolish to return. There's no way I can blame him for seizing an opportunity for some financial security a mere three months from now. You can always go back to school later. I think less of his chances to be a TOP NBA player than I did for Ike Diogu. And, Ike is riding the pine.

That said, if he's crazy enough to return, I'll be glad to have him.

Speaks for me. Really hope he comes back. He's a Mateen Cleaves, I believe, just on a team not as good as Michigan State's was. Mateen was a #14 pick and a complete bust as a pro.
 
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