Have conviction.

[Mainstreet]

A lot of good teams are showing interest in Rosen which should give the Cardinals pause.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-steelers-chargers-saints-packers/3223879002/

 

[BW52]

Intersting ...but I don`t put a lot credence in much Colin Cowturd says.

 

[Solar7]

thats what I want. I want this organization to make decisions with conviction. I don’t want decisions made on popularity, ticket sales, or notoriety. If Murray is your guy then draft him and surround him with weapons. If not so be it. There’s no doubt in my mind this is the most pivotal year since moving to Arizona. We never saw 2008 coming. It was a grand illusion that came true. But this year is different. Decisions made this year will either bring us back to relevancy or it will propel us into the bowels of the nfl. So Mr. Bidwill, Mr. Kiem and Coach K you have some huge decisions to make. Whatever you do, do it with conviction.

I’m sorry, but people make a ton of stupid moves “with conviction.” One time I threw a tank of propane in a bonfire and jumped over it to impress people “with conviction.”

It wasn’t until my friend threw me in the back of a truck, sped away from the scene, and bit me that I realized how stupid I was being.

An extreme example, but at the end of the day these guys make their money by fielding a competitive team that sells tickets. Turning the Cardinals into the sideshow exhibit for the rest of the NFL to laugh at isn’t that answer.

I applaud the risk of getting Kingsbury, actually. I have a good feeling about him, as a former NFL player with innovative coaching lines. Murray scares me more than Trixie the Giraffe-Necked Girl from Scranton.

(This post went in a lot of weird directions.)

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm scared they pass on Murray, Rosen becomes an average QB, and Murray becomes great.

It could happen.

Or not.

Nothing's a lock in the NFL ((otherwise why play the games or have a draft)?

As good an approach as any is: Play the odds & at least have the laws of probability work in your favor.

- Fail with Murray and you wind up with nada in the 1st round.

- Succeed with Murray and you end up with Murray.

- Fail with Rosen and at least you end up with Bosa or QW.

- Succeed with Rosen and you hit the jackpot with a starting QB plus Bosa or QW.

None of the above options is fail-safe, but placing your money on Rosen gives us the best odds for success.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Interesting so You consider Nick Foles Elite then because he won just a year ago

Nope. Nick Foles played out of his mind.

You cant try that with 100 average QBs and it works like 9 times. Not to mention that the Eagles team around Nick Foles was very good.

 

[BW52]

It could happen.

Or not.

Nothing's a lock in the NFL ((otherwise why play the games or have a draft)?

As good an approach as any is: Play the odds & at least have the laws of probability work in your favor.

- Fail with Murray and you wind up with nada in the 1st round.

- Succeed with Murray and you end up with Murray.

- Fail with Rosen and at least you end up with Bosa or QW.

- Succeed with Rosen and you hit the jackpot with a starting QB plus Bosa or QW.

None of the above options is fail-safe, but placing your money on Rosen gives us the best odds for success.

Bravo Jeff.The voice of reason.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Exactly.Lousy defensive conference.5 teams in the conference defenses gave up over 30 points a game average. The BEST defense gave up a average of almost 23 points a game.Defense optional conference.

God that Alabama defense is so awful! Not a single draftable player on it!

 

[BW52]

God that Alabama defense is so awful! Not a single draftable player on it!

So the other 12-13 games OKie U. put up gazillion points against in the Big 12 are irrelevant?

That same Alabama defense that held mghty mite to ZERO points 1st half and never let OKIE U.closer than 11 points.Lots of stats for mighty mite after the game was pretty much decided.Mighty mite will be facing more Alabama type defenses in the NFL instead of crappy big 12 defenses.According to you guys he can leap tall buildings with a single bound,catch a speeding bullet and stop a incoming train.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Same argument for Murray in college, right? The Big 12 is the No 12 for defense.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

.
Yep.

The Cardinals aren't going to be running the same Air Raid you saw at TTU though. It's going to be an NFL version and will use a lot of NFL offensive schemes. Hence why Clements was brought in.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So the other 12-13 games OKie U. put up gazillion points against in the Big 12 are irrelevant?

No....it reinforces my point!

I just picked out a game against a quality defense to show that they were nigh unstoppable.

Murray didn't play too well and still led his team to 34 points against a team that is largely the best defensive team in football every year and has likely 5 or 6 future 1st round picks on their defense right now.

 

[BW52]

No....it reinforces my point!

I just picked out a game against a quality defense to show that they were nigh unstoppable.

Murray didn't play too well and still led his team to 34 points against a team that is largely the best defensive team in football every year and has likely 5 or 6 future 1st round picks on their defense right now.

I know what you are doing.I still doubt Murray.We have went over the reasons Pro/Con.I see no reason to change my opinion.You probably feel he same.We agree to disagree.

 

[PACardsFan]

I'm scared they will draft murray, trade Rosen & Murray bombs out. Then what? Back to square 1, looking for a QB once again. I'm all for just drafting the best player of need & keep Rosen. Even trade down for more picks & still get a damn good player.

Understood, but the reverse can also be said, if we pass on Murray, he becomes a stud, and Rosen never develops. Getting the 1st pick for the Cardinals is a once in a lifetime event. I'm 61 & this is the first time it has happened since I became a fan in 1963. We swung for the fences & hired a young, offensive minded HC out of the college ranks. Now is no time to start playing it safe. If Murray pans out, he will be great. I would rather swing for the fences & be great, then settle & be an average to good playoff team. Haven't we seen the latter. Wiz got us close, but let's be honest, that was not a great team. BA got us to the NFC Championship game, but we got embarrassed, as we were not quite great enough to be crowned a great champion. Let's go for it! Us older fans want to see a SB ring in our lifetime. We won't get there playing it safe. I would rather risk it all & either be great or suck with Murray. Either way, it'll be an exciting ride.

 

[PACardsFan]

My irrational fear is that we take Murray and he gets injured badly by whatever pass rusher the 49ers take. Knowing Keim's luck with 1st round picks it seems nearly a given that this will happen actually. Cooper, Humphries and Nkemdiche all have had a horrible time avoiding injury. DB and Reddick, the undersized athletes for their positions have been relatively healthy but have sucked. Rosen, the prototypical guy, has sucked as well. For Murray's sake, I almost feel sorry for him if Keim picks him.

There is a MUCH greater chance that Rosen would get hurt by a pass rusher than Murr.ay. Murray MAKES people miss. That's what he's great at. Rosen has some wiggle, but his pocket presence is average at best. He's a sitting target at times & gets throttled. In addition to our bad o-line, there's a reason why he was sacked almost 50 times last year. You can't just blame that on your o-line every year

 

[PACardsFan]

A team can win a average QB but cant win with a average Defense or Offensive line or Recievers would you call Nick Foles Elite Jeff Hostetler elite Doug William's elite what do they have in common oh yes each one has a Super Bowl ring what about the elite ones well Dan Fouts was pretty good Dan Marino was elite of course there are others that I cant remember the point is Its A Freaking Team that wins it all Murray wont win Jack by himself no matter how Elite his Skills are

Other than Foles/Eagles SB, the other situations are irrelevant. That was an entirely different NFL than what we now watch. Foles was great for a short period of time, mainly because Doug Pederson has a phenomenal offensive mind.

 

[PACardsFan]

Brady would probably not be TB12 without Belicheck. He would be an average QB.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

We'll never know for sure, but there's no doubt that Belichick is the greatest football coach ever. And no one is even close. I've heard players say that his football knowledge & overall intellect is crazy off the charts. Parcells said the same thing.

 

[daves]

Brady would probably not be TB12 without Belicheck. He would be an average QB.

This is a horrible take.

...dbs

 

[PACardsFan]

Nope. Nick Foles played out of his mind.

You cant try that with 100 average QBs and it works like 9 times. Not to mention that the Eagles team around Nick Foles was very good.

That SB was far more because of Doug Pederson than it was about Foles. Foles will be average with the Jags.

 

[Veer]

There is a MUCH greater chance that Rosen would get hurt by a pass rusher than Murr.ay. Murray MAKES people miss. That's what he's great at. Rosen has some wiggle, but his pocket presence is average at best. He's a sitting target at times & gets throttled. In addition to our bad o-line, there's a reason why he was sacked almost 50 times last year. You can't just blame that on your o-line every year

Overlooked point. Our OL sucked, there is no doubt. But quite some teams suffer from abysmal OL play or OL injuries. Redskins lost all 5 starters and then some backups as well. In some grading system I saw, the Texans OL graded even worse than ours.

The majority of sacks are on the OL. But I remember many sacks were Rosen kept the ball for too long, or couldn't buy himself some time. Even the most statuesque QBs always move slightly in the pocket to buy some time/room. Rosen, in his 13 games, didn't show much of that ability. Btw a negative in most Rosen draft reports was his foible to eat sacks rather than finding another solution, be it throwing away or extending the play.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

This is a horrible take.

...dbs

No, it's not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[BW52]

No....it reinforces my point!

I just picked out a game against a quality defense to show that they were nigh unstoppable.

Murray didn't play too well and still led his team to 34 points against a team that is largely the best defensive team in football every year and has likely 5 or 6 future 1st round picks on their defense right now.

So Murray playing like crap 1 half and scoring points at garbage time makes him wonderful?You are thinking half-full glass because of 2nd half.I am thinking half-empty because of 1st half and garbage points 2nd half.we still agree to disagree.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Understood, but the reverse can also be said, if we pass on Murray, he becomes a stud, and Rosen never develops. Getting the 1st pick for the Cardinals is a once in a lifetime event. I'm 61 & this is the first time it has happened since I became a fan in 1963. We swung for the fences & hired a young, offensive minded HC out of the college ranks. Now is no time to start playing it safe. If Murray pans out, he will be great. I would rather swing for the fences & be great, then settle & be an average to good playoff team. Haven't we seen the latter. Wiz got us close, but let's be honest, that was not a great team. BA got us to the NFC Championship game, but we got embarrassed, as we were not quite great enough to be crowned a great champion. Let's go for it! Us older fans want to see a SB ring in our lifetime. We won't get there playing it safe. I would rather risk it all & either be great or suck with Murray. Either way, it'll be an exciting ride.

This is another reason I've flipped.

With the #1 overall pick, teams should look to draft a franchise altering talent.

I just don't see that with any player other than Kyler Murray. If Keim decides to draft Bosa/Williams, but I think that's the safe/gutless move. No risk it, No biscuit. That mantra is what made the Keim/Arians partnership good for a few years.

Like others have stated, the Cardinals have already gone against conventional wisdom. Some people on this board wanted to hire Jim Caldwell. JIM CALDWELL! You want to talk about the picture child of mediocre, ho hum coaches. Instead the Cardinals went outside of the box...from some indications, the moment Kingsbury was fired, the Cardinals were on his trail. I love the hire, because Kingsbury only has to do what he is good at, develop a QB and develop an offense.

Why is Murray the better fit? Because Murray unlocks the full potential of a spread based play book. His ability to make throws on schedule (something Rosen REALLY struggled with last year) is a staple of the Air Raid offense. Christian Kirk was one of the best receivers in football at catching screen passes, another staple of the Air Raid. I'm excited and rejuvenated by the concept of Murray in Cardinal red. If the Cardinals can protect him, this kid is going to be special because he is Michael Vick with accuracy, Michael Vick with a real QB brain.

 

[DVontel]

This is another reason I've flipped.

With the #1 overall pick, teams should look to draft a franchise altering talent.

I just don't see that with any player other than Kyler Murray. If Keim decides to draft Bosa/Williams, but I think that's the safe/gutless move. No risk it, No biscuit. That mantra is what made the Keim/Arians partnership good for a few years.

Like others have stated, the Cardinals have already gone against conventional wisdom. Some people on this board wanted to hire Jim Caldwell. JIM CALDWELL! You want to talk about the picture child of mediocre, ho hum coaches. Instead the Cardinals went outside of the box...from some indications, the moment Kingsbury was fired, the Cardinals were on his trail. I love the hire, because Kingsbury only has to do what he is good at, develop a QB and develop an offense.

Why is Murray the better fit? Because Murray unlocks the full potential of a spread based play book. His ability to make throws on schedule (something Rosen REALLY struggled with last year) is a staple of the Air Raid offense. Christian Kirk was one of the best receivers in football at catching screen passes, another staple of the Air Raid. I'm excited and rejuvenated by the concept of Murray in Cardinal red. If the Cardinals can protect him, this kid is going to be special because he is Michael Vick with accuracy, Michael Vick with a real QB brain.

I get what you mean but drafting Quinnen Williams is far from gutless. Probably would be even more surprising than drafting Kyler considering the last time a DT was drafted #1 was in the 80s I believe.

 

[slanidrac16]

I’m sorry, but people make a ton of stupid moves “with conviction.” One time I threw a tank of propane in a bonfire and jumped over it to impress people “with conviction.”

It wasn’t until my friend threw me in the back of a truck, sped away from the scene, and bit me that I realized how stupid I was being.

An extreme example, but at the end of the day these guys make their money by fielding a competitive team that sells tickets. Turning the Cardinals into the sideshow exhibit for the rest of the NFL to laugh at isn’t that answer.

I applaud the risk of getting Kingsbury, actually. I have a good feeling about him, as a former NFL player with innovative coaching lines. Murray scares me more than Trixie the Giraffe-Necked Girl from Scranton.

(This post went in a lot of weird directions.)

I get your point. Good post.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I get what you mean but drafting Quinnen Williams is far from gutless. Probably would be even more surprising than drafting Kyler considering the last time a DT was drafted #1 was in the 80s I believe.

Dan Wilkinson.

I don't think it's gutless necessarily, but it's not the same as pulling a early 90's Cowboys and drafting two QBs with 1st round picks.

QB is too important a position to pass on a more talented player. If I have Andy Dalton and I'm drafting #1 overall, do I pass on Andrew Luck?

 

[BW52]

I don't subscribe to the "no risk no biscuit" mantra.In my view its better to have half a biscuit than zero biscuit.Rosen/Bosa or Rosen/Williams beats the hell out taking a chance on Murray.I don't think its gutless...I think its smart.