Help Save the Sonics!

[btimsah]

The state of Washington does not want to fund a new arena or to improve the existing one. That was why the original owner sold the team to some guys from Oklahoma. OF COURSE the guys from Oklahoma want the team here, but they gave them ample time and proposals that was never passed.

That's the real issue here. So, you want to save the Sonics? Then move to Oklahoma.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

that is false - but glad to see you've bought a nice pouch of snake oil - carefull with it though, it also contains some of sterns DNA

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I'd join the cause, but I'm afraid my threat wouldn't carry much weight since I basically boycotted all the Seattle games this year. Why waste my time watching a team so horrible?

 

[Irish]

It is hard to believe that a Sonics might move, but general support for their team was not that great even when their team was in the playoffs. OK City got a lot of attention because they supportered a weak Hornets team.

The "big market/small market" debate is not really decisive. Sacramento supported the Kings for many years before they got good (early in the decade). The Bobcats have not survived the novelty period and seem unable to compete with college basketball.

It is puzzling to find that some bigger markets do not have NBA teams such as St. Louis and San Diego while Sacramento and Charlotte do. What matters seems to be the core local support and the size of the market is less critical.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Why?

Oklahoma City is a woefully small market compared to Seattle. I give them 3 years before their attendance is as pitiful as the Grizzlies were in Vancouver BC before they moved.


Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done to stop the move. Bennett is obviously setting the team up to be competitive in Oklahoma City by 2010-2011 at the expense of their remaining time in Seattle.

I grew up with the Sonics back when they were the only game in town. I still have my first program from 1974 (against the Buffalo Braves btw).

I agree with the assessment that OKC is a very small market, one that would be hard pressed to sell 15-18k season tickets year in and year out, or thereabouts. Maybe they can get some revenue streams from the new stadium to help, but I think they'd be a perennial feeder team that can't re-sign it's good players..like maybe Kevin Durant?

That city had no problem selling out of every game that was in Oklahoma City for the Hornets, and has no problem filling 80k stadiums to watch the Sooners.

This area of the country has some dedicated fans. We weren't sure how much they were dedicated, but the Hornets playing there gave us a glimpse.

I'm still under the notion that Stern will add a team in Seattle the next time they expand..

 

[MigratingOsprey]

It is hard to believe that a Sonics might move, but general support for their team was not that great even when their team was in the playoffs. OK City got a lot of attention because they supportered a weak Hornets team

this is false as well - all the years seattle was making their run they sold out whatever building they were playing in - in fact there was a 4 year run they put the building at capacity - just that capacity is around 17k

in their championship year the team averaged over 21k per game with some of these basketball events being held in the kingdome - in fact between 1978 through 1982 they averaged 18,678 per game which was a very strong # especially if you consider where basketball was at during that time

the sonics used to place in the seattle center coliseum - they moved into the tacoma dome for two years during their good run in the 90s (where they sold out the smaller arena.....) - why?

so they could do a $75M renovation of the arena in 1995

within a decade people were complaining that the newly designed stadium was no good

there is also a lease in place through 2010

also that hornets team wasn't that terrible - they were a near 500 ballclub in a tough conference

 

[MigratingOsprey]

i also like the comments from Shaq & Grant Hill on the potential move - i could support this suns team afterall..........

In four words, Shaq said "it's dumb, it's stupid."

He also told a Seattle sports columnist that "Oklahoma City's a college town."

Shaq said if his son ever asked about the Oklahoma City Sonics, he would tell him there's no such thing.

Grant Hill, who is siding with Seattle fans and only remembers Oklahoma City as a quote "bad road trip."

http://www.9online.com/Global/story.asp?S=8050945&nav=menu681_5_8

 

[Skratchy_Seal]

I think OKC can certainly support the Sonics if they move there. I've also been to the Ford Center and I think it's a pretty good arena and will be much better after the renovation.

However, I am just against the fact that it's at the expense of Seattle. If I had the chance to vote on a $500 million BASKETBALL arena, I would've vote NO. Without taking into account the fluctuating costs of land value, construction materials, and labor, that is more than some recently built MLB and NFL stadiums. I think the demands were too much.

It is much easier for OKC because they didn't actually vote to raise taxes. They approved an extension to an already existing tax called MAPS. So really...there isn't a difference.

I've always felt the Sonics had very good support from their fans. You certainly can't judge their support by this past season with all of the uncertainty surrounding the whole organization. I probably would've stopped going to games too, if the owner was throwing out hints that they were leaving.

 

[Irish]

this is false as well - all the years seattle was making their run they sold out whatever building they were playing in - in fact there was a 4 year run they put the building at capacity - just that capacity is around 17k

in their championship year the team averaged over 21k per game with some of these basketball events being held in the kingdome - in fact between 1978 through 1982 they averaged 18,678 per game which was a very strong # especially if you consider where basketball was at during that time

the sonics used to place in the seattle center coliseum - they moved into the tacoma dome for two years during their good run in the 90s (where they sold out the smaller arena.....) - why?

so they could do a $75M renovation of the arena in 1995

within a decade people were complaining that the newly designed stadium was no good

there is also a lease in place through 2010

also that hornets team wasn't that terrible - they were a near 500 ballclub in a tough conference

The Sonics were in the playoffs fairly recently, but were not contenders.

One problem teams have when pushing for new arenas is that they are almost forced to threaten to leave which alienates the fans. When the OK group bought the team, the alienation was institutionalized.

 

[Renz]

You can probably save those e-mails to the other NBA owners.

NBA owners approve the Sonics' relocation
Associated Press
Updated: April 18, 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - NBA owners have approved the Seattle SuperSonics' move to Oklahoma City for the 2008-09 season, pending the resolution of litigation between the team and the city of Seattle.

The Sonics could begin playing in owner Clay Bennett's hometown as early as next season if they can get out of the remaining two years of their lease at Key Arena.

Seattle has filed suit trying to force the Sonics to remain in the city until the lease expires in 2010, while Bennett wants to buy out the remainder. The city already has rejected Bennett's $26 million to settle the lease dispute. A trial is set to begin in federal court June 16.

"This team is destined to lose $30 million a year and is prepared to lose it for two more years, if that's what the city insists on exacting," NBA commissioner David Stern said.

Seattle hopes to keep the Sonics in town for what would appear to be two lame duck seasons, to buy time for a group led by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to find an arena solution and eventually purchase the team from Bennett to keep them in town.

Ballmer's group already has proposed paying for half of a $300 million expansion of KeyArena, with the other half coming from the city and from county tax revenues.

"We know the longer they are in the Seattle, the better the chance they will stay," Mayor Greg Nickels said Thursday of the Sonics.

"I think if we had a group the caliber of one led by Steve Ballmer and we had an arena pot with $300 million available in it, the NBA would have a hard time abandoning a city that's always had pro basketball — at least for the last 41 years," Nickels said. "They are already awful nomadic with teams like the Hornets and Grizzlies moving," in this decade.

"I think the Ballmer group stepping forward was a game-changer for us," Nickels said.

Bennett is also facing a class-action lawsuit brought by season-ticket holders who say they were duped into buying tickets under the premise the Sonics wouldn't leave.

And this week former team owner Howard Schultz announced plans to sue to get the team back, saying Bennett did not make a good-faith effort to secure a new arena deal as he promised when he bought the team in 2006.

"It really doesn't feel like it's over here yet," Sonics forward Nick Collison, who owns a home up the hill from KeyArena, said before the vote was taken. "There's still a lot of things to do."

 

[MigratingOsprey]

would love the ballmer group to take over - they are pledging $150M for renovations, the city has pledged $75M leaving $75M to the state - still a good sum of money, but something that should be done

apples to apples there is no way OKC is more attractive than Seattle

 

[Renz]

I think the Grizzlies are for sale, or soon will be. Bennett should sell the Sonics to Ballmer, or back to Schultz, and then buy the Grizzlies and move them to OKC.

 

[CardsFan88]

Yeah OKC has some great sooner fans.

What I was trying to state, is there are 5-7 games a season on saturday's in college football. One of the two best day's to have a game. The demand is there for that definitely. There is a tradition, and there is a lack of viable sports competition...like I think you guys have an AFL team. So the Sooners rule the roost.

The problem comes when you have 41 games to play at home. On monday nights, on wed. nights, on any night. Sometimes back to back, or 3-4 times a week. Sometimes it'll conflict with Sooner games.

So now if someone wants to be a nba and sooner fan who packs both stadium's seats, some weeks you might need to go to five games to be at them all.

Overall it's much tougher to get people to go to the games. Especially when someone can say, 'oh they're playing also 2 and 3 days from now? I'll go then, it's a weekend.' Or maybe they can get the tickets sold but might not be used. I.E. people show good support with their wallet, even if they can't attend every game.

It's different from the sooners for an nba team, that has no original fan base, no local collegiate memories to conjure up, plenty of opportunities to watch, and many are on bad nights....mean it will be a different beast.

Maybe you can sell out the stadium year after year. But lots of bigger cities don't do that when teams aren't good. We have roughly 4 million within an hour's drive from the Suns stadium. In bad years, it's tough for us to sell out, and we usually don't have many those years. Baseball it can be worse because it's 81 games. But with that, Football is king in the sports world, nba is 3rd, that does have an impact.

I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to, just it's tougher the smaller you are....especially if the team goes through a 3-5 year rebuilding process...which sometimes takes ten.

OKC if they were to get a team, should get an expansion team. Don't have to worry about curses or anything. I love my cards, and I was 10 when they moved here, but before I even watched a game I heard about our 'cheap' owner 100 times. Which set the stage for the next 10-20 years fan base wise in everyone's minds. A new team, without the baggage for OKC, you can best control what image your team has...because you created it first. I think that's always best. But I am glad we have the cardinals lol.

 

[btimsah]

I feel bad for the Seattle fans, because they are not the reason this happened. That is also why they are so irrational. They just don't care about the facts or realities. So it's hard, as an Oklahoman to really be in a logical discussion about this. They just want their team! And we want our first professional team. Why, because dammit we earned it. I don't give a sh what you say about our market.

Also, the Sonics arena contract specifically says they cannot sue the team.* Of course, as usual they think they CAN NOW DO THAT when it suits them. Total mis management up there.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

their arena contract also says a team will be playing there until 2010

seattle is without a doubt a bigger and better market - the seattle market is not an issue

bennett is no better than a guy like george shinn - they're all pretty much scum

 

[TheHopToad]

If they move to OKC, I wonder if the league will realign the divisions again. Oklahoma wouldn't really make sense in the Northwest. They would be more competitive in the division with the Texas teams. Maybe Milwaukee and New Orleans could swap conferences and the Bucks could join the Northwest (and develop a division rivalry with neighbor Minnesota), the Hornets could go into the Central, and the Sonics into the Southwest.

 

[devilalum]

and?

Point still stands.....The NFL is still different than the NBA.

How is football really different from basketball?

 

[Billy Bob]

I can't think of one reason why I would help stop the sonics from moving.

Sorry cant help

 

[btimsah]

Unfortunately we will end up in the dust bowl conference according to elitist Mark Cuban. I say unfortunately because I don't like the Mavs and/or Spurs.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

I feel bad for the Seattle fans, because they are not the reason this happened. That is also why they are so irrational. They just don't care about the facts or realities. So it's hard, as an Oklahoman to really be in a logical discussion about this. They just want their team! And we want our first professional team. Why, because dammit we earned it. I don't give a sh what you say about our market.

Also, the Sonics arena contract specifically says they cannot sue the team.* Of course, as usual they think they CAN NOW DO THAT when it suits them. Total mis management up there.

You seem to be the one who doesn't care about realities. There have been several offers to buy the team from Bennett or to renovate KeyArena. Bennett put together a proposal that no city in the world would have accepted, then never tried again to get anything approved so that he could move the team to Oklahoma. That's reality. The city was never given a realistic chance to save the Sonics.

I have no problem with Oklahoma getting a team. I do have a problem with them getting a team in this way. OKC is getting a team because of lies by Bennett and Stern. In fact, even the Sonics' owners know that their position is baloney. Aubrey McClendon has gone on record as saying that although the team would profit in Seattle while operating at a loss in OKC, they want to be in Oklahoma.

David Stern is a disgrace. If the move is allowed, I hope the Pacers (and every other team) crush Oklahoma City when they play. May a relocated Sonics team never know success until Clay Bennett has been gone from the franchise for 25 years.

 

[azsouthendzone]

The reality is that the Sonics are a staple in Seattle. Fans in Seattle have 40 years of history. They love the Sonics. The FANS have done nothing to deserve this. As fans of the Arizona Cardinals (well most of us anyway) I find it appalling that some on here are playing devil's advocate, trying to reason for the move to OKC, when we dealt with the same cloud hanging over our head for years while we tried to get a stadium built, always fearing the NFL would leave PHX. The difference is while our NFL team played in front of half capacity and in reality would have been justified leaving Phoenix, a city that hates (ed) the team, which was embarassing to the league, the Sonics have flourished for years at the box office and are adored by the fans of Seattle. Try to show a little sympathy for God sakes. But use your head. This is BAD for the league. If the Clippers or Griz moved there I could see it, but a storied franchise from a great market, with great fans is moving. It makes no sense. I hope Seattle wins the lawsuit. If they had a 2 year window they could salvage the team. Let the OK owner gran another team. Suns fans....what if Sarver didn't buy, and someone pulled this crap on us? This is terrible on many levels.

 

[Skratchy_Seal]

Suns fans....what if Sarver didn't buy, and someone pulled this crap on us? This is terrible on many levels.

Exactly!! I remember when Colangelo was fielding offers, there was some online casino that wanted to buy the Suns and move them to NJ.

...and didn't the Suns almost move to the midwest during the 80's until Colangelo saved them?

The Sonics need to stay in WA.

 

[btimsah]

You seem to be the one who doesn't care about realities. There have been several offers to buy the team from Bennett or to renovate key arena. Bennett put together a proposal that no city in the world would have accepted, then never tried again to get anything approved so that he could move the team to Oklahoma. That's reality. The city was never given a realistic chance to save the Sonics.

I have no problem with Oklahoma getting a team. I do have a problem with them getting a team in this way. OKC is getting a team because of lies by Bennett and Stern. In fact, even the Sonics' owners know that their position is baloney. Aubrey McClendon has gone on record as saying that although the team would profit in Seattle while operating at a loss in OKC, they want to be in Oklahoma.

David Stern is a disgrace. If the move is allowed, I hope the Pacers (and every other team) crush Oklahoma City when they play. May a relocated Sonics team never know success until Clay Bennett has been gone from the franchise for 25 years.

No, you are just flat out wrong. The original owner, who wanted the team in Seattle sold it because he could not solve the issue either. So to sit here now and say the team is moving because some snake oil salesman from Oklahoma bought the team is a joke. They bought the team because they knew they could either get a better or new stadium in Washington and make a lotta money, or move the NBA TO THEIR hometown and make SOME money. It would obviously be more lucrative in Seattle, if given a new stadium/renovations. Why would they suddenly re-sell the team? Oh that's right, because every business owner has to bend over backwards to make the Washington hippies happy.

Try logic on this issue. It's a lot of fun. Oh, and Stern has now said that he's not sure the NBA will ever be back in Seattle after this. I'm sure that's just because of Evil Oklahoma City, right? What a joke.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

No, you are just flat out wrong. The original owner, who wanted the team in Seattle sold it because he could not solve the issue either. So to sit here now and say the team is moving because some snake oil salesman from Oklahoma bought the team is a joke. They bought the team because they knew they could either get a better or new stadium in Washington and make a lotta money, or move the NBA TO THEIR hometown and make SOME money. It would obviously be more lucrative in Seattle, if given a new stadium/renovations. Why would they suddenly re-sell the team? Oh that's right, because every business owner has to bend over backwards to make the Washington hippies happy.

Try logic on this issue. It's a lot of fun. Oh, and Stern has now said that he's not sure the NBA will ever be back in Seattle after this. I'm sure that's just because of Evil Oklahoma City, right? What a joke.

OKC is not at fault here. It's the owners. To sit here and say the team is moving because of a snake oil salesman is a stone-cold fact. They bought the team for the sole purpose of moving it to OKC. I've already stated that the owners have said they will lose money in OKC, but don't care.

They put a proposal up to get rejected, like I've said, and never moved off of it, despite having never explained exactly why a $500 million arena was the only possible solution and refusing to work with the city's renovation plans.If Seattle had caved, they would have sold the team. They are NOT in this to make money, they bought the team they thought would be easiest to steal, it's that simple.

You wouldn't know how fun it is to try logic, because your post is one of the most willfully ignorant I've seen. I didn't know David Stern posts on ASFN, he's about the only one dumb enough to believe Clay Bennett. The funny thing is that a good chunk of what you said sarcastically is what is true.

 

[CardsFan88]

Hippies in Seattle? Hippies were a 60's thing. There hasn't been one since, even if someone uninformed might draw that conclusion based on looks. I don't think it would be fair to call OKC people something...even then I think it would probably be more accurate, even if it is flat wrong to do so.

OKC is not a joke, get the 'small town' chip out of the posts.

Again, I doubt OKC would make money. Look at the NO attendance and think 2012-2017 and beyond OKC attendence. OKC is about the size, I think a bit smaller, than Mesa. I don't think Mesa could support a team. I definitely wouldn't be saying I deserved one if I lived in Mesa, and not at the expense of the Emerald City.

No city deserves a team. A city isn't ALIVE! But if you guys deserve a team, there's 10 or more others ahead of you, so lets give others who deserve it better (based on size and support) and you guys get the 40th team, or maybe 45th after choice foreign markets get theirs. But you don't have to deserve a team to have one. I don't mind you guys having one. But the homerism is at peak levels here. So if one deserves one, consider all those ahead of you. Seattle, San Jose, Jacksonville, San Diego, St. Louis, Columbus, Baltimore, Las Vegas, etc.

OkC is more in the range of supporting a pro team as these locales; Austin, Fort Worth, El Paso, Nashville, Albequerque, Louisvillie, Mesa, Tucson, Buffalo range. Most of these are bigger than OKC, some a bit smaller. But generally speaking the same range.

Why OKC deserves a team bad enough to take one in such an underhanded manner over all these bigger locales with higher incomes, I don't know.

It may not be the evil Oklahomans, but if the guy is from OKC, then HE DOES reflect on you and your city, and state. So in a sense it IS 'evil Oklahomans' if it is an Oklahoman who does this. If some Sonics fan wants to add evil to it, it's understandable.

The Sonics if they move to OKC were stolen, flat out. Not because of OKC, but because of a guy from OKC who wants to be like most rich people and have their way. TBH it makes OKC look small and Podunk to see this go on from many people's viewpoint. It just does. It doesn't mean you are, doesn't mean anything except that's the perception people WILL get....right...or wrong...it's reality.

You may really want a team, I've been there. I wanted a baseball team very badly for many years, so I understand the 'want' aspect.

I also would like to commend you for stating it's hard to have such a unbiased opinion. But you are still being biased.

Also yeah (can't remember who said it), about the differences between nba and nfl. It's HUGE.

http://blog.compete.com/2007/01/03/nfl-mlb-nba-nhl/

I'm not saying the above link it 100 percent accurate, or exactly what I was going for, I'm just saying there are mounds of evidence out there that says there is roughly 25-60 percent more football (college and or nfl) fans, than NBA fans. NBA is 3rd of the 4 major sports in the U.S.

So comparing 80k people to watching a #1 sport, roughly about 30-40k would hardly ever...if ever, attend a basketball game live. So it does have an impact of who would ever go to a game, support the team, and make money. If you don't make money, and don't have a good nightlife in OKC, no player will play there. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying if you take a dart and throw it at the U.S., and plop an NBA team down in that city....if that place doesn't have the fans, and doesn't have the nightlife, the team won't make money, and the players will leave the first chance they get. You may call it sad, but it is true.

Again it isn't 5-7 games, but 41. It's hard to ask a huge percentage of a cities population, with only a decent median income to pay for gas, parking, tickets, refreshments, and time. Do it up to 4-5 times a week, maybe miss a sooners game, and gasp...you spent that time and money to watch the Memphis Grizzlies, the Toronto Raptors, etc, etc. Not exactly thrilling games to want to watch, and put your hard earned dollar and precious time to watch. Not only is it hard, it's unrealistic to EXPECT that you can support a team. Hope, would be the right word, and with the sooners support that is a feather in the cap. It proves nothing, but shows it is potentially possible.