henry news on espn insider

[ASUCHRIS]

You are forgetting to factor in how much Edge will cost you in terms of salary cap dollars. The guy is seeking a sick contract......do you really want to pay that for a RB when you can have Henry for Lamont Jordan money AFTER this year? Same goes for Alexander.....same also goes for a high draft pick, except then you're paying out the asss for an unknown. Travis is clearly your most attractive option.

He may be, but all of the players are available at the price they are for obvious reasons. Edge and Shaun are pro bowl talents who deserve their signing bonuses. Where Henry fits in is difficult to gauge, because of health/fumble concerns. I would love to get any of the three through trade, but we do have a lot of money invested in skill positions, and I wonder if it would hurt us down the road with extensions with the young and talented players we have drafted.

 

[Skkorpion]

Fine guys. Keep Henry. You just don't realize he's not that critical for us. We need a RB and CB which just happen to be the two deepest positions in this year's draft. We also aren't just a RB away from being good. >We need lots of help.

Go ahead and protect Losman with what you have. It's fine by us.

Just don't delude yourselves into thinking we are under pressure to make this deal.

 

[AJZ]

He may be, but all of the players are available at the price they are for obvious reasons. Edge and Shaun are pro bowl talents who deserve their signing bonuses. Where Henry fits in is difficult to gauge, because of health/fumble concerns. I would love to get any of the three through trade, but we do have a lot of money invested in skill positions, and I wonder if it would hurt us down the road with extensions with the young and talented players we have drafted.

.

Well, no matter what happens with the trade, both our teams are on the upswing and I think we all have some pretty exciting football in store for us this year. I'm not convinced that Warner is done, and given your receiving corp I think there is good reason to believe he'll play well. If you can pick up a solid RB - Travis or otherwise - you'll be pretty damn good on offense. I don't know enough about your D to speak to it, but sure seems like you're moving in the right direction.

 

[PIZ]

Fine guys. Keep Henry. You just don't realize he's not that critical for us. We need a RB and CB which just happen to be the two deepest positions in this year's draft. We also aren't just a RB away from being good. >We need lots of help.

Go ahead and protect Losman with what you have. It's fine by us.

Just don't delude yourselves into thinking we are under pressure to make this deal.

Yeah, good luck with the next Ki-Jana. Henry is a sure bet.

 

[AJZ]

Fine guys. Keep Henry. You just don't realize he's not that critical for us. We need a RB and CB which just happen to be the two deepest positions in this year's draft. We also aren't just a RB away from being good. >We need lots of help.

Go ahead and protect Losman with what you have. It's fine by us.

Just don't delude yourselves into thinking we are under pressure to make this deal.

I don't think 'pressure' is the right word, bro. I just think it's clear that Travis is the best option for you guys. If you can get Travis and Pac-man just by swapping positions with us in round 2, I think you'd be hard-pressed not to do it.

 

[Skkorpion]

If Henry has that much value, surely some other team will step in and make a good deal for you.

We'll be watching.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't think 'pressure' is the right word, bro. I just think it's clear that Travis is the best option for you guys. If you can get Travis and Pac-man just by swapping positions with us in round 2, I think you'd be hard-pressed not to do it.

Phrased that way it sounds good, and could indeed be very good. However, put another way, we lose the running back we may have drafted at #8. We may not be able to get the player we want at 44 with the 55 pick. We also lose Shelton. It may depend on the player Green is watching for the second round, and if he thinks they will fall to 55. If it's a player already hoped to fall, then the Cards may not be willing to risk that pick if they think they can adequately address the RB position elsewhere.

 

[AntSports Steve]

First point, Shelton will NOT be cut. He got in Denny's doghouse last year because he had offseason surgury and couldn't work out. Because of that, he entered training camp overweight. Plus Denny had his heart set on moving Big to LT.

Shelton played RT and once he got used to being on that side, he played pretty good. He wants to play LT as that's what he's used to, but if he is not traded, my guess is he'll beat out Ross and play RT again this year.

Also, LTs are in demand. If Buffalo doesn't want him, some other team will trade for him after the draft. Or when a training camp injury happens. Personally, the Cards need to keep Shelton as he makes the OL better.

RBs? A 1st or 2nd round RB will work out fine. Also, if Shipp is healthy, a combo of Hambrick and Shipp will work out ok. Denver fines a way to make due with 3rd and 4th round RBs, the rest of the NFL has also started to figure this out and RBs are just not worth much anymore. They get injured often and wear out faster than most NFL players. Henry already has shown some injury buildup. He's not going to all of a sudden become more durable.

If Buffalo wants Shelton, great, but Arizona is not hurting if they don't get Henry.

 

[PIZ]

First point, Shelton will NOT be cut. He got in Denny's doghouse last year because he had offseason surgury and couldn't work out. Because of that, he entered training camp overweight. Plus Denny had his heart set on moving Big to LT.

Shelton played RT and once he got used to being on that side, he played pretty good. He wants to play LT as that's what he's used to, but if he is not traded, my guess is he'll beat out Ross and play RT again this year.

Also, LTs are in demand. If Buffalo doesn't want him, some other team will trade for him after the draft. Or when a training camp injury happens. Personally, the Cards need to keep Shelton as he makes the OL better.

RBs? A 1st or 2nd round RB will work out fine. Also, if Shipp is healthy, a combo of Hambrick and Shipp will work out ok. Denver fines a way to make due with 3rd and 4th round RBs, the rest of the NFL has also started to figure this out and RBs are just not worth much anymore. They get injured often and wear out faster than most NFL players. Henry already has shown some injury buildup. He's not going to all of a sudden become more durable.

If Buffalo wants Shelton, great, but Arizona is not hurting if they don't get Henry.

Good points, Ant. I guess it boils down to the Cards aren't enamored with Henry and the Bills aren't enamored with Shelton. Both teams have options, and both teams seem to feel those options are better than the options of Henry and Shelton. The alternative options clearly, though, are going to be harder to achieve.

 

[AJZ]

First point, Shelton will NOT be cut. He got in Denny's doghouse last year because he had offseason surgury and couldn't work out. Because of that, he entered training camp overweight. Plus Denny had his heart set on moving Big to LT.

Shelton played RT and once he got used to being on that side, he played pretty good. He wants to play LT as that's what he's used to, but if he is not traded, my guess is he'll beat out Ross and play RT again this year.

Also, LTs are in demand. If Buffalo doesn't want him, some other team will trade for him after the draft. Or when a training camp injury happens. Personally, the Cards need to keep Shelton as he makes the OL better.

RBs? A 1st or 2nd round RB will work out fine. Also, if Shipp is healthy, a combo of Hambrick and Shipp will work out ok. Denver fines a way to make due with 3rd and 4th round RBs, the rest of the NFL has also started to figure this out and RBs are just not worth much anymore. They get injured often and wear out faster than most NFL players. Henry already has shown some injury buildup. He's not going to all of a sudden become more durable.

If Buffalo wants Shelton, great, but Arizona is not hurting if they don't get Henry.

No offense, but your team is NOT the Broncos......I'll just take your word for all you say cause I honestly don't know enough about your team to do otherwise. My understanding was that Denny had already announced his starting Oline for the season, and Shelton wasn't a part of it. Most Bills fans I know would love to get the Shelton deal done, I guess where I feel differently than you guys is when it comes to the value of the two players. But that could just be the fact that we're fans of different teams

 

[Renz]

I don't think 'pressure' is the right word, bro. I just think it's clear that Travis is the best option for you guys. If you can get Travis and Pac-man just by swapping positions with us in round 2, I think you'd be hard-pressed not to do it.

Hmmmm. When you put it that way...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmmmm. When you put it that way...

I actually agree with that - if we got Henry and then got whatever CB we wanted with the 8th pick, this team would really be set at almost every position - especially if we were able to sign Renaldo Hill as well - I mean think about it - what position would we have a gaping need? What position wouldn't we have at least a little depth? That second round pick would then be able to spent on WHATEVER the hell we want, either another CB or a RB or a G or a LB - and it's only 11 picks lower. I have faith in Green to still pluck a diamond at that spot.

That being said, I could live without the trade - especially if Caddy or Brownie is there for the taking - first round RBs who are actually good can be such difference makers - either way, I'm sure Denny will make the move what's best for the team right now so I'm not really worried about it. If we go into the season with Shipp, Hambrick and a 2nd round runner, I'm worried - but I don't see that scenario panning out.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't think 'pressure' is the right word, bro. I just think it's clear that Travis is the best option for you guys. If you can get Travis and Pac-man just by swapping positions with us in round 2, I think you'd be hard-pressed not to do it.
I tend to agree with Renz (though I'd prefer Rolle or Rogers over PacMan) that trading down 11 spots to wind up with Henry and Rolle makes bottom line sense. But I think it depends on the way each team views their Board.

If both teams feel there's a significant dropoff in talent somewhere between #44 and #55, the Cards might be hard pressed to make a trade. But if Dennis and Rod feel there's a talent "plateau" between #44 and #55, they might be more amenable to a trade.

But there's the other side of the coin - Buffalo winds up with a pretty good left tackle and moves up 11 spots in the draft in exchange for giving up a RB who won't play for them anyway.

Which is why I suggested expanding the deal to balance things off by including a "reverse swap" with in Round 3 (i.e. We'd move up from our #95 to Buffalo's #86). Here too, this might depend on how Dennis & Co. and Donoghue view the depth of talent in Round 3.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, good luck with the next Ki-Jana. Henry is a sure bet.

denny doesn't draft ki-jana's. his offensive draft selections have all been good bets - robert smith, daunte culpepper, randy moss, michael bennett - dude's proven he knows offensive talent.

i'd like to trade for henry, but this ain't the old cards that get bent over in trades anymore.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It's just another team trying to play hardball with the Cardinals. The Cards got screwed out of another draft pick by the saints two years ago. Buffalo is probably sitting back thinking that the Cardinals are going to break down any time now.

I say screw them! Let them keep Henry on the bench all season. Maybe they can plug him into their Left Tackle postition. They have a gaping hole there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also, if Shipp is healthy, a combo of Hambrick and Shipp will work out ok.

even as a cardinals fan i have to call you out on this one as being flat out wrong.

 

[joeshmo]

I disagree that you guys have a leg up in this trade scenario. Travis is clearly more valuable, in my opinion.

In any other year you may be correct but this year it is a buyers market for RB's all of their values are way diminished. Alexander, James, Really, Really deep draft, ect.

As for OT, that is a completely different story.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

what position would we have a gaping need? What position wouldn't we have at least a little depth?

We would still not have a TE and PR. Our depth would be very limited on the o-line especially because everyone's rumoring AC to be cut or traded. I think we are doing the smart thing in waiting for the draft to see if this deal works out for us. My best guess is the Cards have a couple RBs earmarked for the 1st and 2nd round and will draft them if there but if gone will consumate the Henry deal.

 

[az jam]

Nice discussion here with PIZ and AJZ solid Bills fans (and not board bashers!). I would like the Cards to get Travis Henry. It would really give us great flexibilty in the draft along with having an excellent RB which as we know is a big need. I hate to trade 2nd round picks but being a Cardinal fan its hard not to be biased. Homers always think their players are better and of course worth more.
Neither GM has really officially said anything on this; its just the media. It would be nice to have this done before the draft but so far it appears neither side is willing to compromise.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What i get from reading through this thread is that fans of both teams probably overrate their players values. To me it's a trade of 2 players that have no "real" value to their current team yet have value to the team they'd be traded to.So, why should one team, this time it being the Cards, have to give up more to get the trade done? To me,it's a straight up trade or no trade. THe Cards could have just as easily asked for more.I'm sure Buffalo wouldn't agree to it.So why should the Cards?

 

[Cheesebeef]

We would still not have a TE and PR. Our depth would be very limited on the o-line especially because everyone's rumoring AC to be cut or traded. I think we are doing the smart thing in waiting for the draft to see if this deal works out for us. My best guess is the Cards have a couple RBs earmarked for the 1st and 2nd round and will draft them if there but if gone will consumate the Henry deal.

agree with this - but really, when all were really worried about is TE and PR - I'd say - for the Cardinals - we would be in lala land. As far as the O-line is concerned - most teams don't have a lot of depth there, so it doesn't bother me all that much. We WOULD have depth at RB, DL, QB, CB(if we signed Hill and took a CB with the eighth pick) - and that right there would be heads and shoulders above anything else we've ever seen.

I just don't know how comfortable I am addressing BOTH RB and CB in the draft - I think this team is closer to being a serious contender and that's depending ona some pretty solid return on your first two picks there if you want to be taken seriously. I'm just a little anxious - that's all.

 

[AJZ]

I say screw them! Let them keep Henry on the bench all season. Maybe they can plug him into their Left Tackle postition. They have a gaping hole there.

lol,that's pretty funny

 

[AJZ]

Nice discussion here with PIZ and AJZ solid Bills fans (and not board bashers!).

We get our share of trolls on our board, so I definitely appreciate some good football discussion. Besides, it's hard for a Bills fan to be anti-Cardinals, and maybe vice-versa. We don't have a whole lot of history, and we're both teams trying to get better and do some damage in '05

 

[FrontRow]

Um, we could also use a Tight-End.

 

[JasonKGME]

No offense, but your team is NOT the Broncos......I'll just take your word for all you say cause I honestly don't know enough about your team to do otherwise. My understanding was that Denny had already announced his starting Oline for the season, and Shelton wasn't a part of it. Most Bills fans I know would love to get the Shelton deal done, I guess where I feel differently than you guys is when it comes to the value of the two players. But that could just be the fact that we're fans of different teams

If you want to talk value I hate to say it but Shelton actually has the higher value right now, based on:

Travis Henry, Stated will not play for the Bills, said would sit out, If thats correct he has absolultly NO VALUE for the bills.

LJ Shelton, Stated he would like to be the starting LT, but if something couldnt work out he would continue to play and be a contributing member of the team, Decent value for Arizona either as the starting RT, Starting RG or excellent depth at Tackle.

Travis Henry, Assume he doesnt hold out, doesnt get traded and plays for Buffalo, he is going to be relegated to the 3rd down back, 80 carries, 320 yards, 4 TD's? Some value, but even that isnt that great for you.

LJ Shelton, Assume he doesnt get traded, will be at least backup tackle, and at the rate Tackles got injured last year should have pretty good value at least at that, and with the chip on his shoulder if he does something with that chip wouldnt be suprised to end up as a starter and then really good value for the Cardinals.



Now I will agree overall value as far as player talent the edge would go to Henry, but because of the above the TRUE value makes them at least equal and possibly make Shelton more valuable. Thats why I cant figure out why Buffalo doesn't do this deal, they aren't gonna get any real better offers unless they want a 3rd round or worse pick for him instead...