hey..where are all of you ASU fans?

[ASUCHRIS]

Re: To answer your questions pinnacle

Originally posted by sundevilfan99

As for the schedule ASUChris, I couldn't disagree more. I don't believe you realise what goes into scheduling. Our home slate isn't "huge" but we're playing two BCS teams on the road. We'll get Iowa's return trip next year. Even if Iowa and UNC are down this year, you never know what quality of team you will face when you initially schedule the team as it is usually ~5-8 years or more in advance. (Right now, ASU is scheduled through ~2012).

Realise (sic) what goes into scheduling? Sorry Ned, I don't believe that Utah State and NAU are going to be packing them in, or getting us positive national attention. Insinuating that Iowa and UNC are legitimate contenders is a joke as well. I love ASU football, but their only real difficult matchup will be USC. Generally the PAC-10 is much more competitive, which I am sure is a major reason for the weak non-conference schedule, but to call it anything other than weak this year is dilusional.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Scheduling is such a funny thing.....The one thing that the folks at ASU (Mark Brand) will hang their hats on is that the "common folk" couldn't possibly understand how difficult scheduling is for them.

The one thing I will never understand is why PAC-10 teams don't play a full conference schedule. Do the higher ups at ASU really believe the fans would rather see a game against Utah State or NAU than Washington (ASU's bye game this year)?

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by AZBALLER
Did anyone know that Steve Bush is a former SunDevil...

He also went to Paradise Valley High School. My Alma Mater.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: To answer your questions pinnacle

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
AZBALLER is right on when it comes to the market and how well ASU does compared to a) other schools in pro-sports towns and b) the pro-sports in this town. Consider that last year was ASU's worst year for attendance in a very long time and they still outdrew all the pro-sports in terms of attendance per game.

NED (sdf99)

That's one way to look at it, I guess.

The pro team in town had a down year - record wise - but still was able to manage an increase the gates of about 7% over the previous year.

ASU, on the other hand, had a great year on the field yet fans continued to disappear. Even a letter from Frank Kush prior to the Stanford game couldn't bring them to the "glory days" of the past.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: To answer your questions pinnacle

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
Realise (sic) what goes into scheduling? Sorry Ned, I don't believe that Utah State and NAU are going to be packing them in, or getting us positive national attention. Insinuating that Iowa and UNC are legitimate contenders is a joke as well. I love ASU football, but their only real difficult matchup will be USC. Generally the PAC-10 is much more competitive, which I am sure is a major reason for the weak non-conference schedule, but to call it anything other than weak this year is dilusional.

ASU CHRIS - Why don't you look at schedules of other D1 teams from around the country and in the PAC 10 and compare them to ASU's? This year our schedule does fall short and we only end up around the mid-way point in terms of schedule strength. Consider though that Iowa and UNC were both scheduled long in advance. If we had played Iowa last year, it would have looked like a great game, but because we get them when they're rebuilding it now looks like a poor game. Perhaps next year UNC will be a contender, and we'll have missed their good year by playing them too early. You can't predict with any consistency how good a team will be when you schedule them, so you pick schools from the top conferences and hope that they'll be good enough to bring you respect, but not good enough to beat you.

Also take a look at how often teams from east of the mississippi are willing to travel west and play top notch competition. I'll answer for you - Florida won't do it. Neither will FSU. Georgia won't. Tennessee won't. Miami won't ever do it again after losing out on an NC opportunity because they visited UW. Then you've got Oklahoma cancelling their home and home with us a couple years ago. Because of the turmoil within the Big East, BC cancelled their series with us.

Seriously, if you're going to bag on scheduling, you should bag on Oregon State, Kansas State, Nebraska and all the other teams that schedule their own 'Sister Marys of the Poor' type schools.

BTW - NAU probably will draw a decent crowd considering all the NAU grads in Phoenix. National Respect? Of course not, but how much national respect did Oregon State get by beating Sac State? And do they care? Should they?

Let's look at the top 25 last week:

Texas (4) vs. New Mexico State
Kansas State (5) vs. Troy State
Michigan (7) vs. Central Michigan
NC State (13) vs. Western Carolina

This week:
Kansas State (6) vs. McNeese State
Michigan (7) vs. Houston
Georgia (8) vs. Middle Tennessee State
Virginia Tech (9) vs. James Madison
Pittsburgh (12) vs. Kent State
Wisconsin (17) vs. Akron
Purdue (20) vs. Bowling Green
ASU (21) vs. NAU
Iowa (23) vs. Buffalo
Nebraska (24) vs. Utah State

In summary, there is only one team that schedules tough week in and week out and that is USC. Everyone else plays patsies. You can't predict when the BCS teams you schedule will be good, so to rip scheduling them just because they're not good this year is a dishonest argument.

Finally, what would you change, and how would you accomplish it? The only way you're going to convince Georgia to come out and play an early season game in Sun Devil Stadium is to convince them that we'll pay them more than they could make by simply filling up their stadium against Middle Tennessee State.

FWIW - Oregon State will be a tough game in Corvallis, UCLA - could be good, might not be, Oregon is going to be decent but their loss of Ngata will hurt their D tremendously, Cal is already surprising people with how good they are despite losing so much from last year's squad. So far the PAC is 6-2 in OOC contests, with wins at Auburn and at Mississippi State (two SEC schools). The losses were both on the road to top ranked teams. (Ohio State and Kansas State) If you really believe that the PAC won't be competitive this year I would think that you're delusional.

NED (sdf99)

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Scheduling is such a funny thing.....The one thing that the folks at ASU (Mark Brand) will hang their hats on is that the "common folk" couldn't possibly understand how difficult scheduling is for them.

The one thing I will never understand is why PAC-10 teams don't play a full conference schedule. Do the higher ups at ASU really believe the fans would rather see a game against Utah State or NAU than Washington (ASU's bye game this year)?

The PAC doesn't play a full conference schedule because USC plays ND every year. A full conference sked would cut into their other OOC games and they would only have 1 different team per year. By not having a full conference slate, you a) increase the intrigue of ties between teams that don't play each other, b) allow USC to play 2 OOCs + ND every year, c) make the conference games more exciting because every once in a while you get to play someone you haven't played in a couple years and miss a team you've been playing for a while.

As for the "common man" - the "common man" is complaining out of selfish interest, not in the best interests of the school and not with an argument based in reality. ASU can't simply call up Oklahoma, Michigan and FSU and tell them "we're going to schedule you in 2 years - do you want to come here first or should we go there?" You can't argue that all these other schools are just dieing to play ASU - they're not. There is very little benefit to playing a team like ASU for them. 1) They could win. But if they win, they get no respect for it because they were supposed to win. 2) They could lose and lose lots of respect because they were supposed to win. 3) They make less money on a road game to ASU than they make in a home game vs. Central Michigan or Middle Tennessee State.

It also wouldn't help ASU to schedule a full slate of BCS contenders. Are people going to flock to SDS to watch ASU lose to good teams? No.

I suppose if the "common man" proposed an argument based in reality for how ASU would a) benefit from bringing in top teams, and b) convince those teams that it is in their best interests to play us, then Mark Brand et al could take their arguments seriously. But I personally find that Mark Brand does do a great job of scheduling. I have not seen a convincing argument that he could do better.

NED (sdf99)

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: To answer your questions pinnacle

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
That's one way to look at it, I guess.

The pro team in town had a down year - record wise - but still was able to manage an increase the gates of about 7% over the previous year.

ASU, on the other hand, had a great year on the field yet fans continued to disappear. Even a letter from Frank Kush prior to the Stanford game couldn't bring them to the "glory days" of the past.

Out of curiousity Wizard, did they increase the gate by increasing sales, or ticket prices?

FWIW - ASU's season ticket sales are up this year over last, so that trend is reversing.

NED (sdf99)

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Re: Re: To answer your questions pinnacle

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Out of curiousity Wizard, did they increase the gate by increasing sales, or ticket prices?


NED

Ticket sales (people in the stadium) were up 7% 2002 from 2001.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ned:

Thank you for saying that their schedule is weak this year. That is my primary argument, and that is simply what I've been trying to get across here. I am not comparing them to other big name schools, I am just talking about ASU's schedule. Also, when you schedule teams like North Carolina and Iowa, with the exception of last year with Iowa, you aren't scheduling them to get a series with an elite team. That is my point.

How to solve the problem? I have no idea, that isn't my job, nor do I see a simple solution. However, they did get Notre Dame to come out here, so if you can get them......you can finish that thought.

Delusional for thinking the PAC-10 isn't going to be great this year? That's an interesting thought. Three teams competing for the title, with a bunch of mediocre other teams is hardly what I would call competitive. We'll see how it plays out, but the PAC-10 looks weaker than ever this year. There are essentially three good teams: USC, Washington, and ASU. There have been much better years and talent in the PAC-10, and I'd love for you to name one team from the PAC-10 that you think we wouldn't beat.

 

[maddogkf]

I believe we picked up NAU & Utah State this year because of the scheduling cancellations of Okla & Georgia Tech.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I heard that SDSU had cancelled out too somewhere.

Next year we play UTEP , Northwestern, Iowa.

2005 we play Temple , BC, & Northwestern

Future we play Colorado 06-07
BC 08
Illinois 11-12
Notre Dame 12-13
BYU 09, 11

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by maddogkf
I believe we picked up NAU & Utah State this year because of the scheduling cancellations of Okla & Georgia Tech.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I heard that SDSU had cancelled out too somewhere.

Next year we play UTEP , Northwestern, Iowa.

2005 we play Temple , BC, & Northwestern

Future we play Colorado 06-07
BC 08
Illinois 11-12
Notre Dame 12-13
BYU 09, 11

Maddog, there's an imposter on AZCentral using your name, and he's a tool.


Sorry. Back to the discussion....

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Maddog, there's an imposter on AZCentral using your name, and he's a tool.


Sorry. Back to the discussion....

YEah...I put a post there stating that. Damn tools.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
How to solve the problem?

Take scheduling out of the hands of the schools and centralize it with the NCAA home office. Let them schedule all the non conference games. There would still be some lightweight opponents but I think the overall quality of opponents would increase for alot of teams.

I am not saying everyone should play killer schedules but I fail to see how Utah St and NAU BOTH can fall on ASU's schedule...no matter what the circumstances. I think it is pathetic OU cancels...why did they? Because ASU wa becoming a team to be feared in their quest for championship. JMHO

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
Ned:

Thank you for saying that their schedule is weak this year. That is my primary argument, and that is simply what I've been trying to get across here. I am not comparing them to other big name schools, I am just talking about ASU's schedule. Also, when you schedule teams like North Carolina and Iowa, with the exception of last year with Iowa, you aren't scheduling them to get a series with an elite team. That is my point.

How to solve the problem? I have no idea, that isn't my job, nor do I see a simple solution. However, they did get Notre Dame to come out here, so if you can get them......you can finish that thought.

Delusional for thinking the PAC-10 isn't going to be great this year? That's an interesting thought. Three teams competing for the title, with a bunch of mediocre other teams is hardly what I would call competitive. We'll see how it plays out, but the PAC-10 looks weaker than ever this year. There are essentially three good teams: USC, Washington, and ASU. There have been much better years and talent in the PAC-10, and I'd love for you to name one team from the PAC-10 that you think we wouldn't beat.

Chris - I don't know what to tell you. You seem like the type of "fan" who gripes about the schedule, but doesn't offer up any alternatives. You refuse to compare to what other schools are doing, and do not take into account the fact that when those other top end schools schedule a mid-lower level patsy, that's one more game which ASU won't have an opportunity to play against them. If all the other schools are playing patsies, they won't have schedule space to schedule ASU, and ASU would experience "record deflation" because everyone else would be bagging easy wins on the way to a bowl game while ASU would play 3 tougher opponents and require more conference wins to offset any OOC losses in order to get to a bowl game. It is also, IMO, valid to compare schedules to other schools. Why should ASU have a significantly tougher slate than any other school in the country? Simply to please "fans" who are more interested in whom "their" team is playing than in "their" team?

To summarize: elite teams aren't going to play ASU every year. They want to "spread the wealth" for their fans by playing teams of interest from across the nation, not 1 school every year. Keep in mind that there are lots of schools like ASU that want to play those high end schools and there are not a lot of open schedule slots available. Those high end teams also want to schedule their own set of patsies, thus eliminating scheduling opportunities for ASU. In addition, when you do manage to schedule a team like Oklahoma, they occasionally cancel their set of games because they believe they have "overscheduled" and want to add a patsy to their schedule. I don't see any answers and you aren't offering any. What do you expect from Mark Brand? What type of schedule would satisfy you?

BTW - ND is coming again. Just be patient. It's in 2012.

As for you last paragraph, I didn't say that the PAC-10 would be great. I said they would continue to be competitive. It seems kind of silly to me to label a conference competitive and then talk only about how the top teams in the conference will do against other teams in the conference. To compare conferences, you have to compare intersectional matchups like the two SEC games we saw last weekend - where the PAC went 2-0. As for a team that ASU wouldn't beat? I firmly believe that ASU has the talent and the coaching to win every game this year. But last year ASU lost to less talented teams (UNC and Cal) and it could happen against this year. Not to mention teams which are probably talented enough to beat us like USC. Only twice in the last decade has a team gone undefeated in conference play. Teams which you declare to be 'mediocre' might end up being pretty good. We won't know for sure until a couple weeks into the season. I for one wouldn't be surprised to see UCLA upset a ranked Colorado team. And I don't believe that a 'mediocre' Cal team will get beat by CSU.

NED

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Take scheduling out of the hands of the schools and centralize it with the NCAA home office. Let them schedule all the non conference games. There would still be some lightweight opponents but I think the overall quality of opponents would increase for alot of teams.

I am not saying everyone should play killer schedules but I fail to see how Utah St and NAU BOTH can fall on ASU's schedule...no matter what the circumstances. I think it is pathetic OU cancels...why did they? Because ASU wa becoming a team to be feared in their quest for championship. JMHO

Excellent suggestion....we've faced the reality that ASU has some pretty crappy teams scheduled out of conference, and I like the suggestion of centralization of scheduling. BTW, here is one viable alternative ned

Also, with the "Fan" crap, don't talk to me about that. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I've gone to every game since my freshman year here, and I yell my lungs out at every game. Just because I don't agree with a stance of the team, doesn't mean I are a traitor, it's called objectivity.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by maddogkf
I believe we picked up NAU & Utah State this year because of the scheduling cancellations of Okla & Georgia Tech.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I heard that SDSU had cancelled out too somewhere.

Next year we play UTEP , Northwestern, Iowa.

2005 we play Temple , BC, & Northwestern

Future we play Colorado 06-07
BC 08
Illinois 11-12
Notre Dame 12-13
BYU 09, 11

The Oklahoma cancellation resulted in sked changes in 2001/2002. I believe. SDSU cancelled this year's game. Also, we had a game scheduled with Central Michigan that they cancelled in order to play Michigan last weekend. Think about that - Michigan could have tried to fill their open date with us, but chose not to.

NED (sdf99)

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Take scheduling out of the hands of the schools and centralize it with the NCAA home office. Let them schedule all the non conference games. There would still be some lightweight opponents but I think the overall quality of opponents would increase for alot of teams.

I am not saying everyone should play killer schedules but I fail to see how Utah St and NAU BOTH can fall on ASU's schedule...no matter what the circumstances. I think it is pathetic OU cancels...why did they? Because ASU wa becoming a team to be feared in their quest for championship. JMHO

That is a decent suggestion. I doubt it would ever happen. But a good suggestion nonetheless.

As for complaining about NAU and Utah State, I just don't see the point. We had 2 cancellations (SDSU and Central Michigan) and had to fill in with someone. It is still better than Oregon State's slate of opponents or Kansas State's. We are traveling on the road to two BCS conference opponents, and that is nothing to be taken lightly. Iowa is one year removed from the Orange Bowl and a co-Big 10 Championship, while UNC beat us last year! It's not like we can really crow about how bad they are when they have scoreboard.

NED

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
The PAC doesn't play a full conference schedule because USC plays ND every year.

NED

Bunk. You mean to tell us that USC dictates scheduling terms to the rest of the Pac-10? They are but one of ten votes on such matters.

Besides, they would play ND if they only had one non-conference game to schedule.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Bunk. You mean to tell us that USC dictates scheduling terms to the rest of the Pac-10? They are but one of ten votes on such matters.

Besides, they would play ND if they only had one non-conference game to schedule.

Well, they dictate their own schedule. They could refuse to play a 9th conference game if they chose to do so. If you go back and look at the early PAC-10 schedules you will notice that several teams played odd numbers of games early on - not everyone played the same number of games until some of their schedules were played out. Teams played anywhere from 7-9 conference games if I remember correctly. They also have enough clout to pull members of the conference into their camp. Think of what the PAC-10 would look like minus USC. To the folks out East, we would be worse than the Big East minus Miami. Not true (IMO), but that is the perception. So if USC says they would skip out, in terms of football, the conference needs them more than they need the conference.

I still think that in terms of providing revenue and the overall product that you put on the field, scheduling a Utah State IS better than playing that extra PAC-10 game. The reasons are as follows: It provides the equivalent of a pre-season game, ala the pros. It adds revenue because you don't have to travel, you get to keep most of the revenue generated from the game, and having an extra easy win puts your team closer to getting a bowl berth - more money. Not to mention making the PAC-10 race interesting because of potential ties between teams that don't play each other. (ASU & UW, USC & Oregon, etc.)

Fans who are more interested in whom their team is playing will certainly not agree. I go to watch my Devils, and tailgate with my friends. The other team is only tangentially important. I want to see good football and there is plenty of opportunity for that based on our schedule.

NED (SDF99)

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Take scheduling out of the hands of the schools and centralize it with the NCAA home office. Let them schedule all the non conference games. There would still be some lightweight opponents but I think the overall quality of opponents would increase for alot of teams.

Before that happens, Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken will spend a weekend together casting for bonefish down in The Keys!

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Think about that - Michigan could have tried to fill their open date with us, but chose not to.

NED

Michigan is playing in Eugene this year....why would they come here as well?

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Michigan is playing in Eugene this year....why would they come here as well?

That is apparently the standard set by fans like ASU Chris. He has already described Oregon as 'mediocre' at best. That, I suppose, would equate them with Iowa on our schedule. Therefore they need a 'top flight contender' like ASU to play against. And no, they wouldn't necessarily have to come here. I'm sure we could've gone there.

But do you see what I mean? You're saying that Michigan should not have to play more than one half-way decent team OOC, but saying that ASU should. Double standard, and has more to do with being interested in the other team, than being interested in ASU.

NED (sdf99)

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Renz
Before that happens, Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken will spend a weekend together casting for bonefish down in The Keys!

Very true...but it would solve the nonsense of scheduling. Also, the NCAA could put together alot more favorable matchups for early season games on TV (they have been getting better) and really sell their brand of football.

I think NCAA does a horrible job in using their Thursday night opportunities. The games just aren't all that solid of matchups. Tghis is a night when the entire football world is watching and we get Southern Miss and UAB this week

You must be registered for see images attach

.

Does that make any sense from a ratings standpoint? How about shaking loose FSU v Maryland and put them on Thursday Night (solid matchup)? This would allow no real competition on ESPN for Oklahoma v Alabama (a marquee matchup).

 

[WizardOfAz]

I don't think there is a double-standard at all.

First of all, comparing ASU football to U - M football is not very fair at all, to say the least.

I have only two complaints:

1) I would rather play the PAC-10 team we get a bye from each year (Washington in 2003) than NAU or Utah State.

2) I'll grant you your arguement that Mark Brand is doing his best, given the tough situation he is working under. Please, then, do not complain about the lagging ticket sales (see the AZCentral article earleier in this thread) when NAU, Eastern Washington, or Central Michigan (I can't believe that losing such a game would cause such turmoil) are offered by the department as the choice.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
I don't think there is a double-standard at all.

First of all, comparing ASU football to U - M football is not very fair at all, to say the least.

I have only two complaints:

1) I would rather play the PAC-10 team we get a bye from each year (Washington in 2003) than NAU or Utah State.

2) I'll grant you your arguement that Mark Brand is doing his best, given the tough situation he is working under. Please, then, do not complain about the lagging ticket sales (see the AZCentral article earleier in this thread) when NAU, Eastern Washington, or Central Michigan (I can't believe that losing such a game would cause such turmoil) are offered by the department as the choice.

I suppose you're right - it isn't fair to compare UM to ASU since ASU holds the all-time lead in the series - 1-0.

Seriously - both are in BCS conferences. Both are, this year, expected to contend for their conference championship. Seems a pretty good comparison to me. UM is playing in Eugene and ND at home. ASU is playing on the road @Iowa and @UNC. Not the same level of competition, but not too bad either. Some teams schedule 4 patsies per year. If ND was having a down year and UNC a good year then our OOC schedules would probably be even.

And no, I've never 'complained' that you or others aren't going to the games. If your reasoning for not going is that you don't like the matchup, then that simply tells me that you aren't a fan of ASU - you're a fan of 'matchups' or of football in general, but not a fan of ASU.

NED (sdf99)