Hi Def Football Quality

[Sandan]

In watching the games this weekend, it seemed that the Fox broadcast was a lot better than CBS.

I'm talking about picture quality.

Am I imagining this ?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No. Typically Fox has the superior video quality, and CBS has superior audio quality.

 

[Darth Llama]

There is definately a difference in HD Quality between the two. I wouldn't say one is always better though, sometimes CBS seems to have the better picture. This weekend though, Fox was definately better, the image had more clarity and better color depth in HD. Why they are different, I don't know, but they definately are.

My favorite for sports HD is NBA Basketball on TNT. It's absolutely stunning.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There is definately a difference in HD Quality between the two. I wouldn't say one is always better though, sometimes CBS seems to have the better picture. This weekend though, Fox was definately better, the image had more clarity and better color depth in HD. Why they are different, I don't know, but they definately are.

My favorite for sports HD is NBA Basketball on TNT. It's absolutely stunning.

You probably use Dish or DTV. My brother has Dish and his TNT feed is amazing. Cox's TNT feed leaves a lot to be desired. Especially audio.

 

[Darth Llama]

You probably use Dish or DTV. My brother has Dish and his TNT feed is amazing. Cox's TNT feed leaves a lot to be desired. Especially audio.

Actually, I have Cox. I think the video feed from Cox for TNT is pretty good. Audio though isn't that great. Tonight during the Laker game it was terrible, and kept making a popping sound. I thought it was my TV at first, but it only happens on TnT. Video feed was quite nice though.

 

[Fiasco]

If you want the best possible video quality use an over the air tuner. DirecTV's compressed pseudo HD signal doesn't compare.

 

[puckhead]

If you want the best possible video quality use an over the air tuner. DirecTV's compressed pseudo HD signal doesn't compare.

I have noticed a dramatic improvement in picture-quality since the change to Mpeg-4. In comparison, the "original HD" channels (70s-90s) are still in Mpeg-2 and look worse on any fast-motion scenes on my display. Plus, I was not aware there was any way to measure the resolution of the proprietary Mpeg-4 streams at this time. (And DirecTV ain't talkin') Have you found a source that can measure these streams?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I have noticed a dramatic improvement in picture-quality since the change to Mpeg-4. In comparison, the "original HD" channels (70s-90s) are still in Mpeg-2 and look worse on any fast-motion scenes on my display. Plus, I was not aware there was any way to measure the resolution of the proprietary Mpeg-4 streams at this time. (And DirecTV ain't talkin') Have you found a source that can measure these streams?

I don't think that there is anyway to measure the streams without having your feed to go your PC and using PC software to record it. I don't think that there is anything in the boxes that measure it.

 

[puckhead]

I don't think that there is anyway to measure the streams without having your feed to go your PC and using PC software to record it. I don't think that there is anything in the boxes that measure it.

You're right DCR, the boxes do not measure it. When the streams were Mpeg-2, there were programs that could measure them, but I wasn't aware of one for Mpeg-4 at this time, hence my question to Fiasco.

Also, I notice that Fiasco is in the St. Louis market, and their PBS station probably isn't stealing bandwidth from the OTA HD channel to add 3 sub-channels like ours does. This full-bandwidth HD probably is "eye-popping" as Fiasco describes.

 

[Fiasco]

I have noticed a dramatic improvement in picture-quality since the change to Mpeg-4. In comparison, the "original HD" channels (70s-90s) are still in Mpeg-2 and look worse on any fast-motion scenes on my display. Plus, I was not aware there was any way to measure the resolution of the proprietary Mpeg-4 streams at this time. (And DirecTV ain't talkin') Have you found a source that can measure these streams?

It is my understanding that DirecTV's signal takes a 1080 signal (1920 lines of horizontal resolution) and reduces it to 1280 horizontal lines of resolution (horz res of a 720 signal) for broadcast.

 

[Fiasco]

You're right DCR, the boxes do not measure it. When the streams were Mpeg-2, there were programs that could measure them, but I wasn't aware of one for Mpeg-4 at this time, hence my question to Fiasco.

Also, I notice that Fiasco is in the St. Louis market, and their PBS station probably isn't stealing bandwidth from the OTA HD channel to add 3 sub-channels like ours does. This full-bandwidth HD probably is "eye-popping" as Fiasco describes.

Yes the St. Louis market has 4 channels of PBS.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yes the St. Louis market has 4 channels of PBS.

Nice. PBS is one of my favorite shows, and typically has really good video quality.

 

[Gee!]

Id much rather take Fiasco or bleedingred's (who does this for a living) word on all this..

 

[azsouthendzone]

I want to know what this guy thinks.....

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NERD ALERT

 

[Fiasco]

I want to know what this guy thinks.....

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NERD ALERT

I already told you guys what I think. Quit plastering my bachelor party photo all over the internet.

 

[puckhead]

It is my understanding that DirecTV's signal takes a 1080 signal (1920 lines of horizontal resolution) and reduces it to 1280 horizontal lines of resolution (horz res of a 720 signal) for broadcast.

I am familiar with HD-Lite, but I thought that was pre-Mpeg-4 when DirecTV was starved for bandwidth. I would be very interested in finding a source (software/hardware) that can measure the Mpeg-4 streams. I'm still looking for a definitive source for this info, and I am hoping Fiasco knows of one, and would kindly direct me.

 

[Fiasco]

I am familiar with HD-Lite, but I thought that was pre-Mpeg-4 when DirecTV was starved for bandwidth. I would be very interested in finding a source (software/hardware) that can measure the Mpeg-4 streams. I'm still looking for a definitive source for this info, and I am hoping Fiasco knows of one, and would kindly direct me.

DirecTV is still starved for bandwidth. Mpeg-4, though a more effective compression scheme, didn't create physical bandwidth capacity. Whatever capacity it added was quickly gobbled up by more shopping HD channels and the like. Thus new satallites.

As far as the new Mpeg 4 channels looking better then the Mpeg 2 channels it isn't a real direct comparison because DirecTV compresses some channels more then others.

I can't remember exactly where I read the big thread on DTV's resolution/compression. Satellite guys, avs forum... I'm not sure. I have a buttload of these types of forums and sites bookmarked.

Still, even if my information is shown to be incorrect the merits of my original argument stand up. DirecTV's signal doesn't hold a candle to a proper OTA HD broadcast.

 

[puckhead]

DirecTV is still starved for bandwidth. Mpeg-4, though a more effective compression scheme, didn't create physical bandwidth capacity. Whatever capacity it added was quickly gobbled up by more shopping HD channels and the like. Thus new satallites.

Well, it would be fair to say not nearly as starved as before the new sat went live, which is when all the new channels (Mpeg-4) were added. Mpeg-4 really opened things up for them with smaller file sizes and the ability to lower data rates. I believe their next sat will be launching soon, so BW issues should disappear at least in the short term. (hopefully more HD shopping channels coming soon! )

As far as the new Mpeg 4 channels looking better then the Mpeg 2 channels it isn't a real direct comparison because DirecTV compresses some channels more then others.

Fair enough.

Still, even if my information is shown to be incorrect the merits of my original argument stand up. DirecTV's signal doesn't hold a candle to a proper OTA HD broadcast.

No argument here, however the operating word here is proper. Unfortunately in our market, the discovery of sub-channels has basically ruined our once pristine HD via OTA. Not that it's terrible or anything, just not what it once was. I'm sure a capable engineer could opitmize an HD channel with subs (perhaps like in your area) but we are not so lucky here in Phx.

If you ever see any way to measure those DirecTV Mpeg-4 streams, please let me (us) know.

 

[Fiasco]

A bit OT:

I "regifted" my old Sony HTIB system to my father in law 3 years ago for christmas. It was just your atypical "starter" home theatre but he was tickled pink with it (until he crossed the speaker wires with it turned on a couple months ago but I digress).

Finally, a couple months ago I bought replacement stuff and just over the last two days did I hook it all up properly. Nothing is more fun then snaking cable through drywall, in and around joists and insulation through several 4" x 4" holes cut in the drywall. I hope the skin on my hands, elbows and forearms heals soon... But I got fancy 5.1 speaker wall plates and HDMI wall plates and finally cleaned up that nightmare wiring mess hidden behind the TV.

7.1 SVsound speakers & PB 10 sub. Awesome cabinetry, no seams.... shakes the house

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

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Onkyo 875 THX certified w/ 1080p reon video processor Burr Brown DAC's 170 watts per channel @ 6ohm

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR875&class=Receiver&p=i

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1/8th total volume is too loud for my house

 

[puckhead]

A bit OT:

I "regifted" my old Sony HTIB system to my father in law 3 years ago for christmas. It was just your atypical "starter" home theatre but he was tickled pink with it (until he crossed the speaker wires with it turned on a couple months ago but I digress).

Finally, a couple months ago I bought replacement stuff and just over the last two days did I hook it all up properly. Nothing is more fun then snaking cable through drywall, in and around joists and insulation through several 4" x 4" holes cut in the drywall. I hope the skin on my hands, elbows and forearms heals soon... But I got fancy 5.1 speaker wall plates and HDMI wall plates and finally cleaned up that nightmare wiring mess hidden behind the TV.

7.1 SVsound speakers & PB 10 sub. Awesome cabinetry, no seams.... shakes the house

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

You must be registered for see images

Onkyo 875 THX certified w/ 1080p reon video processor Burr Brown DAC's 170 watts per channel @ 6ohm

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR875&class=Receiver&p=i

You must be registered for see images

1/8th total volume is too loud for my house

Excellent setup, I would kill for an SVS sub. That Onkyo should have you covered for a good long time. I'm sure it was worth all the trouble.