Hicks vs.Collins

[Harry]

One of the interesting aspects of this draft is what role will Collins play. The Cards have made it clear he’ll be positioned in Hicks’ spot. It appears Hicks will likely be retained for 2021 then cut.

I had proposed cutting Hicks now but the Cards still see him as serviceable. My impression last year is he had lost at least a step. In zone he couldn’t get deep fast enough to seal short crossing routes. In man coverage, he couldn’t prevent separation. He was better against the run but was not as effective a tackler as he’d been in previous years. I suspect Collins will take quite a few of these reps next year. Hicks is more of an insurance policy, though I could see Collins or Simmons moved outside in some defensive alignments. It’s also possible Simmons might play more of a role at safety occasionally. This set of highly athletic players offers a myriad of potential formations.

 

[Stout]

I'll love it if Collins can be at least a serviceable, average ILBer, as that would indeed be an upgrade over Hicks.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Hicks is a below average starter at this point - Collins better be taking reps.

 

[az jam]

Hicks took a big pay cut to stay. Agree with Harry that it is good to have him this year as insurance. He can also help tutor Collins on the pro game and the "Mike" linebacker role.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

I hope Collins is an upgrade but I also think people have short term memory when it comes to LB play.
Hicks has been pretty healthy and serviceable from what I can remember. He may not be the best but he is better than what we have run out there before.
I don't think people remember the subpar LB play in the years prior.
I went back to look at the roster the previous seasons prior to Hicks being signed:
2018 our MLB were Gerald Hodges and Joe Walker
2017 our ILB were Bynes, Gabe Martin and an aging Dansby
2016 our ILB were Kevin Minter, Sio Moore and Scooby Wright.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I see Hicks starting for the first few games atleast. Collins has the mental game (from what I have read) but this is going to be a rough few months just like it was for Isaiah.

If we expect him to wear the headset in the huddle from day one we will have a roungh first month of the season.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Hoping by next yr collins is starting I like his gm motor in tape looks to be a monster hitter to

Hope him or moore pan out just 1 lol......

 

[Chopper0080]

It is tough to see a benefit to cutting Hicks at this point. Trade would obviously be ideal to take away the temptation from Vance to recreate the Simmons fiasco of 2020. I do like the idea of being creative with Simmons and finding a small role for Hicks.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

I see Hicks starting for the first few games atleast. Collins has the mental game (from what I have read) but this is going to be a rough few months just like it was for Isaiah.

If we expect him to wear the headset in the huddle from day one we will have a roungh first month of the season.

bingo. I'll be very surprised if Collins starts week 1 but if he does that means he did a great job picking up the defense and communication responsibilities.

 

[football karma]

if we cut Hicks, i feel like we would be looking for a cheap vet.... like Hicks.. for depth

 

[mjb21aztd]

if we cut Hicks, i feel like we would be looking for a cheap vet.... like Hicks.. for depth

Really don't want a rookie lb starting.... especially next to simmons

 

[MadCardDisease]

Hicks was definitely a liability in coverage last season.

How many times were the Cardinals in 3rd and long only to watch Hicks trailing 3 yards behind his man as he converted a first down.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Hicks was definitely a liability in coverage last season.

How many times were the Cardinals in 3rd and long only to watch Hicks trailing 3 yards behind his man as he converted a first down.

Sadly, many times

 

[QuebecCard]

It is tough to see a benefit to cutting Hicks at this point. Trade would obviously be ideal to take away the temptation from Vance to recreate the Simmons fiasco of 2020. I do like the idea of being creative with Simmons and finding a small role for Hicks.

It wasn't a "fiasco" no matter how many times you say it.

Simmons use was dictated by no offseason and Campbell's play in the first half of the season. He was eased in and used increasingly as he showed that his inexperience would not be a liability. With his acquired awareness of his responsibilities in the last quarter of the season, we got a glimpse of what's on the horizon.

 

[juza76]

It wasn't a "fiasco" no matter how many times you say it.

Simmons use was dictated by no offseason and Campbell's play in the first half of the season. He was eased in and used increasingly as he showed that his inexperience would not be a liability. With his acquired awareness of his responsibilities in the last quarter of the season, we got a glimpse of what's on the horizon.

He should have played more snaps despite being inexperienced, he didn't have dansby and Washington ahead of him, but two below average ilb
Joseph showed to be too hesitant giving more snaps to him and gardeck, without any logic behind
Gardeck just few snaps and Kennard and Fitts being more involved
Disconcerting

 

[QuebecCard]

He should have played more snaps despite being inexperienced, he didn't have dansby and Washington ahead of him, but two below average ilb
Joseph showed to be too hesitant giving more snaps to him and gardeck, without any logic behind
Gardeck just few snaps and Kennard and Fitts being more involved
Disconcerting

I just gave you the logic.

The first rule of getting playing time is "don't be a liability".

The ILB ahead of him was Campbell, not Hicks, and he played well in the first half/plus of the season.

Gardeck is a STer and a gimmick pass rusher, not a potential every-down player.

Kennard and Fitts were backup OLB's whose snaps were dictated by the emergence of Reddick for the former and the loss Chandler Jones for the latter.

 

[DVontel]

Hicks was definitely a liability in coverage last season.

How many times were the Cardinals in 3rd and long only to watch Hicks trailing 3 yards behind his man as he converted a first down.

Last season?

Dude has been a liability in coverage since he got here.

 

[juza76]

I just gave you the logic.

The first rule of getting playing time is "don't be a liability".

The ILB ahead of him was Campbell, not Hicks, and he played well in the first half/plus of the season.

Gardeck is a STer and a gimmick pass rusher, not a potential every-down player.

Kennard and Fitts were backup OLB's whose snaps were dictated by the emergence of Reddick for the former and the loss Chandler Jones for the latter.

This is the logic of Vance Joseph, and u seems to agree
If u see a special team player fluorish and being effective as a pass rusher with the few snaps he got then he deserve more playing time
I still remember the first game he racked up two sacks the week later didn't play at all, just too see Fitts and Kennard doing nothing
Where is the logic?

 

[JeffGollin]

He should have played more snaps despite being inexperienced, he didn't have dansby and Washington ahead of him, but two below average ilb
Joseph showed to be too hesitant giving more snaps to him and gardeck, without any logic behind
Gardeck just few snaps and Kennard and Fitts being more involved
Disconcerting

Don't underrate improvements to our defensive line which may allow assignment-shifts that should take some of the load off our backers.

 

[Chopper0080]

It wasn't a "fiasco" no matter how many times you say it.

Simmons use was dictated by no offseason and Campbell's play in the first half of the season. He was eased in and used increasingly as he showed that his inexperience would not be a liability. With his acquired awareness of his responsibilities in the last quarter of the season, we got a glimpse of what's on the horizon.

We can disagree, but I will point this out. The Panthers played Jeremy Chinn who was a similar athlete and in a similar role almost the entire year without the benefit of going to a big program like Clemson or an offseason. So what happened?

Do I think Chinn is a better player than Simmons? No.

Do I think Chinn's experience at Southern Illinois prepared him for the NFL better than Simmons experience at Clemson? No.

Do I think Chinn is significantly smarter in picking up the nuances of a defense? Not really as Simmons coach Venables and the Cardinals (pre-draft) both praised Simmons defensive acumen.

So how does one compete for defensive player of the year and the other struggle to play meaningful snaps? Probably because one team had a better plan for acclimating and preparing their player for the football season without an offseason better than other. Probably because one was more comfortable with their players learning curve than the other. That is about the only answers you can really come up with.

Also, please don't try to celebrate the talents of currently unsigned free agent DeVondre Campbell.

 

[QuebecCard]

This the logic of Vance Joseph, and u seems to agree
If u see a special team fluorish and being effective as a pass rusher with the few snaps he got then he deserve more playing time
I still remember the first game he racked up two sacks the week later didn't play at all, just too see Fitts and gardeck doing nothing
Where is the logic?

The 'logic' is in the game plan.

It may prove wrong but every week they design a defensive approach and roles tailored to the upcoming offence.

Not that difficult to understand.

 

[juza76]

The 'logic' is in the game plan.

It may prove wrong but every week they design a defensive approach and roles tailored to the upcoming offence.

Not that difficult to understand.

Is difficult to understand when those defensive approaches are not backed up by the results

 

[QuebecCard]

We can disagree, but I will point this out. The Panthers played Jeremy Chinn who was a similar athlete and in a similar role almost the entire year without the benefit of going to a big program like Clemson or an offseason. So what happened?

Do I think Chinn is a better player than Simmons? No.

Do I think Chinn's experience at Southern Illinois prepared him for the NFL better than Simmons experience at Clemson? No.

Do I think Chinn is significantly smarter in picking up the nuances of a defense? Not really as Simmons coach Venables and the Cardinals (pre-draft) both praised Simmons defensive acumen.

So how does one compete for defensive player of the year and the other struggle to play meaningful snaps? Probably because one team had a better plan for acclimating and preparing their player for the football season without an offseason better than other. Probably because one was more comfortable with their players learning curve than the other. That is about the only answers you can really come up with.

Also, please don't try to celebrate the talents of currently unsigned free agent DeVondre Campbell.

Good points.... but I'd find a defining term other than 'fiasco' for Simmons' use in season one.

P.S. If currently unsigned free agent DeVondre Campbell had played as well in the second half of last season as the first, he wouldn't be unsigned.

 

[juza76]

Good points.... but I'd find a defining term other than 'fiasco' for Simmons' use in season one.

P.S. If currently unsigned free agent DeVondre Campbell had played as well in the second half of last season as the first, he wouldn't be unsigned.

He has been good just in very few games (2)then he was a no factor
Couple of good coverages made him look like a solid starter, he wasn't

 

[Chopper0080]

Good points.... but I'd find a defining term other than 'fiasco' for Simmons' use in season one.

P.S. If currently unsigned free agent DeVondre Campbell had played as well in the second half of last season as the first, he wouldn't be unsigned.

When you take a player whose calling card was versatility in college and then stick him in a defined role where technique and being able to diagnose are more important than athleticism and reacting, and then you aren't patient with his mistakes and learning curve, to me that is a fiasco. Vance not being able to find a role for 6'4 239lbs that ran 4.3 is a fiasco IMO.

It would be like not understanding how to make Calvin Johnson work at WR because they didn't throw the ball that much at Georgia Tech and he was not super-refined. It shouldn't be tough to find a role initially to help the player be successful and then expand on it. Instead we put him in vs a HC whose offense is designed to be tricky even for vets and then yanked him immediately after he is tricked.