High Noon: The Coaches Are Responsible

[Buckybird]

Here's what I think - albeit without the certainty many fans seem to have re the QB situation.

- I never was sold on Kolb - even before he was drafted (high floor/low ceiling QB).

- Though Skelton seemed physically big and strong-armed, he was unproven and raw as rain.

- Kolb seemed more NFL-ready but with not much of an upside.

- The hope of the coaches seemed to be that the Cards were good enough at all the other positions to be able to win with an efficient game-manager at QB.

- Meanwhile they had a raw guy with a much higher upside waiting in the wings and maybe they'd get lucky and capture lightning in a bottle.

- As it turns out, the efficiency guy hasn't been that efficient and the high upside dude will need to become more consistent for that upside to be realized. (If the decision had to be made today, I believe Skelton will give us a better chance to win than will Kolb (but that could all change and the coaches can afford to wait & see).

- Lost in all this is the role of the QB coach. McNulty's too new to evaluate, but I've felt for a long time that the Cards have lacked a "QB Whisperer." (Makes you wonder how Leinert might have developed under the watchful eye of a QB guru like Norm Chow). Bottom line - whatever the reason, since Don Coryell, we haven't been very good at developing QB's.

That's what I'm thinking; but without much certitude - I'm ready to be proved wrong.

Agree with most of what you said.

Btw Rod Dowhower & Jim Shofner were pretty damn good QB teachers & OCs. I still say the biggest problem we've had is choosing QBs...name one whose done anything since leave Stl or Az?

 

[red desert]

What I love about Skelton as much as anything is---he plays the game with a smile on his face---he's loving it---he's not fighting it---he has never once looked afraid---he keeps his head up----and when he makes mistakes he bounces back.

In many ways he plays offense with a defensive players' mentality---defensive players are the ones who typically look like they love what they are doing out there because they get to do the hitting. Skelton plays that way---he's loving it out there. I will never forget the way he punished that Cowboy DB on the sideline when he lowered his shoulder on him instead of running out of bounds. He won a lot of respect from his teammates that night. Those are things teammates don't forget.

As Pat Tillman would say---"he's balling it!"

 

[Phrazbit]

Here's what I think - albeit without the certainty many fans seem to have re the QB situation.

- I never was sold on Kolb - even before he was drafted (high floor/low ceiling QB).

- Though Skelton seemed physically big and strong-armed, he was unproven and raw as rain.

- Kolb seemed more NFL-ready but with not much of an upside.

- The hope of the coaches seemed to be that the Cards were good enough at all the other positions to be able to win with an efficient game-manager at QB.

- Meanwhile they had a raw guy with a much higher upside waiting in the wings and maybe they'd get lucky and capture lightning in a bottle.

- As it turns out, the efficiency guy hasn't been that efficient and the high upside dude will need to become more consistent for that upside to be realized. (If the decision had to be made today, I believe Skelton will give us a better chance to win than will Kolb (but that could all change and the coaches can afford to wait & see).

- Lost in all this is the role of the QB coach. McNulty's too new to evaluate, but I've felt for a long time that the Cards have lacked a "QB Whisperer." (Makes you wonder how Leinert might have developed under the watchful eye of a QB guru like Norm Chow). Bottom line - whatever the reason, since Don Coryell, we haven't been very good at developing QB's.

That's what I'm thinking; but without much certitude - I'm ready to be proved wrong.

Absolutely agree. That was what bugged me most about the Kolb trade before it ever happened. We are committing ourselves to a guy who MIGHT be able to turn into a "Matt Cassel" level QB? I'd take chances on plenty of boom or bust QBs rather than give a commitment to a player who looks so mediocre.

I know not everyone felt that his ceiling was so low, but, to me, he never appeared to have the overall skill set (and especially the poise) to be an elite player.

 

[desertdawg]

I'm gonna stay firm on my flop, I don't care if Kolb goes 10 for 10 with 2 TDs in the first quarter tomorrow. I'm done putting the ******** on the pedistool, not jus Kolb either. At least Skelton is on course with his career, still getting it in. Kolb better prove me wrong, because I think I even saw his shadow flinch while he was under center in the Saints game. Our O-line may suck balls but you simply have to be able to take more than one hit. But it looks like it may be "Beanie Syndrome" from here on out for we know, constantly recovering from injuries that need time to heal, but he knows his future is on the line. Now he's down to starts with some jacked up ribs, that's a no-no, same with concussions, and in some Kevin cases...turf toe. Sorry for the negative vibe, I just need to see something out of him that atleast resemble's a 6 million dollar QB. My next post will be more positive, unless Kolb breaks his arm giving himself a concussion before then.

 

[52brandon]

I was pulling for Kolb ever since the trade. I thought he just got a bad rap and with some time with the team/playbook and his new helmet, he would be good. Now I think I was wrong all along. I don't see Skelton as the long-term solution, but I would rather cut Kolb and keep the other 3 on the roster at this point

 

[WisconsinCard]

I'm gonna stay firm on my flop, I don't care if Kolb goes 10 for 10 with 2 TDs in the first quarter tomorrow. I'm done putting the ******** on the pedistool, not jus Kolb either. At least Skelton is on course with his career, still getting it in. Kolb better prove me wrong, because I think I even saw his shadow flinch while he was under center in the Saints game. Our O-line may suck balls but you simply have to be able to take more than one hit. But it looks like it may be "Beanie Syndrome" from here on out for we know, constantly recovering from injuries that need time to heal, but he knows his future is on the line. Now he's down to starts with some jacked up ribs, that's a no-no, same with concussions, and in some Kevin cases...turf toe. Sorry for the negative vibe, I just need to see something out of him that atleast resemble's a 6 million dollar QB. My next post will be more positive, unless Kolb breaks his arm giving himself a concussion before then.

That's funny...

 

[JeffGollin]

I was pulling for Kolb ever since the trade. I thought he just got a bad rap and with some time with the team/playbook and his new helmet, he would be good. Now I think I was wrong all along. I don't see Skelton as the long-term solution, but I would rather cut Kolb and keep the other 3 on the roster at this point

It could come to that, but we don't have to make that decision right now - We lose nothing by letting the next couple of weeks play themselves out and give Kevin every opportunity to redeem himself.

Downside -We waste 2 weeks and wind up dumping him anyway.

Upside - He proves us wrong and we wind up with a QB who takes us into the playoffs.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm gonna stay firm on my flop, I don't care if Kolb goes 10 for 10 with 2 TDs in the first quarter tomorrow. I'm done putting the ******** on the pedistool, not jus Kolb either. At least Skelton is on course with his career, still getting it in. Kolb better prove me wrong, because I think I even saw his shadow flinch while he was under center in the Saints game. Our O-line may suck balls but you simply have to be able to take more than one hit. But it looks like it may be "Beanie Syndrome" from here on out for we know, constantly recovering from injuries that need time to heal, but he knows his future is on the line. Now he's down to starts with some jacked up ribs, that's a no-no, same with concussions, and in some Kevin cases...turf toe. Sorry for the negative vibe, I just need to see something out of him that atleast resemble's a 6 million dollar QB. My next post will be more positive, unless Kolb breaks his arm giving himself a concussion before then.

Watching some of the 2009 Viks game tonight. Warner was one calm (crazy) dude. He'd just stand there looking down field with pass rushers coming right at him and wouldn't move other than to take a step up occasionally, releasing the ball right before they were going to hit him and then he'd just duck left or right so they couldn't get a clean hit on him. Meanwhile Fitz or Q were making a circus catch down field.

Boldin was unreal in that game.

 

[Matt L]

Side question Mitch. I get the why it helped the QB playing against 2 extra defenders but didn't it hurt your defense?

We used to do that in basketball if we played a really quick pressing team we'd play against 6 in practice to simulate their speed. But we didn't press ourselves so it didn't impact our defense. That is you didn't start to rely on having an extra defender because in games we weren't actually pressing.

seems to me if your offense is playign against 13 guys enough that they actually benefit, that would mean your defense should be getting used to playing with 2 extra guys too and it would really harm them in real games?

Not necessarily, at my high school the offense would run plays against a scout team defense which would try to run the same defense as the upcoming opponent and then when working on defense there would be a scout team offense that would try to run the same plays as the upcoming opponent.

 

[THESMEL]

yea

Instant classic - that was the grey beard game? A follow up from Favres 6 td and warners 6 turnover 08 Jets game! I want to see that Jets game again- unlike coach Whisenhunt.

I have not gave up on Kolb yet, we have 4 preseason games, I think we have a playoff team and it may take 2-6 QB's to get there with Mike Miller at OC.

Watching some of the 2009 Viks game tonight. Warner was one calm (crazy) dude. He'd just stand there looking down field with pass rushers coming right at him and wouldn't move other than to take a step up occasionally, releasing the ball right before they were going to hit him and then he'd just duck left or right so they couldn't get a clean hit on him. Meanwhile Fitz or Q were making a circus catch down field.

Boldin was unreal in that game.

 

[desertdawg]

Watching some of the 2009 Viks game tonight. Warner was one calm (crazy) dude. He'd just stand there looking down field with pass rushers coming right at him and wouldn't move other than to take a step up occasionally, releasing the ball right before they were going to hit him and then he'd just duck left or right so they couldn't get a clean hit on him. Meanwhile Fitz or Q were making a circus catch down field.

Boldin was unreal in that game.

Good times.

 

[Phrazbit]

Watching some of the 2009 Viks game tonight. Warner was one calm (crazy) dude. He'd just stand there looking down field with pass rushers coming right at him and wouldn't move other than to take a step up occasionally, releasing the ball right before they were going to hit him and then he'd just duck left or right so they couldn't get a clean hit on him. Meanwhile Fitz or Q were making a circus catch down field.

Boldin was unreal in that game.

Man, I am jealous of this package you bought. How much did it run you again?

 

[Phrazbit]

Ugg, the Jet game. What an awful day. Cards get blown out, Boldin breaks his jaw and the city of Tempe has my car towed.

 

[Duckjake]

Man, I am jealous of this package you bought. How much did it run you again?

$70.00 plus tax.

Has games 2009-2011 and the 2012 games as long as no game is live. In other words you can't watch the Cards Sunday game replay while the Monday night game is underway. So you can watch a replay of Sundays games as soon as the Sunday night game is over.

Some of the 2009 games are condensed. You get a choice of full broadcast replay, condensed replay, and coaches film only on the 2011 games. You can also move around to individual plays. Sometimes. Video quality is normally very good but sometimes its really poor. Subscription is good through July 2013.

One caveat. If you have any trouble with your subscription, won't load, poor video, billing whatever, your done because there is NO Customer Service from the NFL people.

Of course I'm Cardinal Crazy and would rather watch replays of old Cardinal games than watch TV or movies.

 

[kerouac9]

Love your posts Mitch but I have two points. Almost every team has big bucks on the starter position at QB, so to me it does not matter if it is Skelton or Kolb starting because it would still look the same on cap space in time to come. Skelton would hardly have his contract at its current mark if he succeeds and it is doubtful the team would keep Kolb in that event. Lastly, if you make your point that Skelton being a 5th round pick is the spot a team looks for a good number 2, why say the coaching staff did wrong if that number 2 does not perform like a number 1. The loss of DRC (though I really do not see DRC as being capable of excelling in Horton's type of defense) and the second round pick is what hurts, not the contract given Kolb if he fails.

That's not true at all. It's true if you have a pro-bowl caliber quarterback, but it's not like every team has $10 million+ locked up at their QB position, no matter how mediocre.

Let's go to the tape:

AFC North: Steelers (Yes), Ravens (No), Bengals (No), Browns (No)
AFC East: Pats (Yes), Jets (No), Dolphins (No), Bills (No)
AFC South: Texans (Yes), Titans (No), Jags (No), Colts (No)
AFC West: Broncos (Yes), Raiders (No), Chargers (Yes), Chiefs (No)

NFC North: Packers (Yes), Lions (Yes), Bears (Yes), Vikes (No)
NFC East: Giants (Yes), Eagles (Yes), Cowboys (Yes), Redskins (No)
NFC South: Saints (Yes), Panthers (No), Falcons (Yes), Bucs (No)
NFC West: 49ers (No), Seahawks (No), Cards (No), Rams (Yes)

So, there are 14 of 32 teams who have big contracts at the QB position, and I'd say that only St. Louis's aren't justified.

 

[Catfish]

You are the 2nd person I have read this from this week. I specifically remember reading Ben and Whiz didn't have the best relationship and that Whiz didn't think Ben took the job seriously. But I don't ever remember reading that he tried to bench him?? Can you please find proof of this before it becomes an internet "fact"

Shane, you and I have been over this topic before and nothing has changed since then. I told you then that I either read this, or heard it from one of the talking heads on TV during the time when Whiz was going through his fiasco with Leinart. I didn't recall who either wrote it, (or commented about it), then, and I still don't recall today who it was. I am not alone however in this comment. I have seen it talked about on this board then, and again now, so I am not by myself with this recollection. I understand your wish to be able to verify things, but I don't understand your insistence that I produce the 'proof' that I saw or read this. I do not make things up that I post on this board. I dislike having my veracity brought to question like this, (especially since you and I have already discussed this previously).

As I said before, Whiz and Ben did not get along very well, and that is VERY common knowledge around the league. Despite the fact that Ben has gone on record as saying that he holds no animosity against Whiz now, it doesn't change the history that these two had together then. I'm sorry that I cannot produce the author of that comment. Perhaps you might ask for 'proof' of this from one of the others on this board who have posted that comment. One of them might recall who said, (or posted it).

 

[Shane]

Shane, you and I have been over this topic before and nothing has changed since then. I told you then that I either read this, or heard it from one of the talking heads on TV during the time when Whiz was going through his fiasco with Leinart. I didn't recall who either wrote it, (or commented about it), then, and I still don't recall today who it was. I am not alone however in this comment. I have seen it talked about on this board then, and again now, so I am not by myself with this recollection. I understand your wish to be able to verify things, but I don't understand your insistence that I produce the 'proof' that I saw or read this. I do not make things up that I post on this board. I dislike having my veracity brought to question like this, (especially since you and I have already discussed this previously).

As I said before, Whiz and Ben did not get along very well, and that is VERY common knowledge around the league. Despite the fact that Ben has gone on record as saying that he holds no animosity against Whiz now, it doesn't change the history that these two had together then. I'm sorry that I cannot produce the author of that comment. Perhaps you might ask for 'proof' of this from one of the others on this board who have posted that comment. One of them might recall who said, (or posted it).

Correct it is common knowledge that they they didn't have the greatest working relationship. It happens. But you keep saying that he tried to bench Ben doesn't make it so no matter how many times you repeat it. I watch as much football as anyone as much NFL network as anyone read about football and have googled it. Cant find nor have I ever seen anything remotely resembling that as fact. just that they had a rocky relationship and still do. Your the one who says it as though it is. So figured you would have the source. If not its cool.

 

[crisper57]

I am calling my shot right now:

Kolb goes down early with a prolonged injury. Probably another concussion. We still don't know what we have in him after this year.

Skelton leads us to a respectable record, but also has a lot of boneheaded mistakes along the way. We start to wonder if he's hit his peak in terms of potential, which is way lower than we originally thought.

Whiz declares yet another QB competition in 2013, only he takes a note out of SEA's playbook and makes it a 3-way affair.

 

[cardpa]

I am calling my shot right now:

Kolb goes down early with a prolonged injury. Probably another concussion. We still don't know what we have in him after this year.

Skelton leads us to a respectable record, but also has a lot of boneheaded mistakes along the way. We start to wonder if he's hit his peak in terms of potential, which is way lower than we originally thought.

Whiz declares yet another QB competition in 2013, only he takes a note out of SEA's playbook and makes it a 3-way affair.

Sounds like a very possible scenario. Would not surprise me in the least if this happens adding to the credence that Whiz has no idea on how to judge QBs and will only get one through pure dumb luck.

 

[Shane]

Sounds like a very possible scenario. Would not surprise me in the least if this happens adding to the credence that Whiz has no idea on how to judge QBs and will only get one through pure dumb luck.

That's pretty much how they all get them. Other than sucking so bad u get a top 3 pick.