Hill picks Phoenix

[azirish]

I think he was a starter, but he had a pretty solid season that year.

2004-05

19.7 ppg
50.9% shooting
82.1% from the line (341 attempts)
4.7 rpg
3.3 assists per game
1.4 steals per game

His three point shooting percentage was 23.1%, but he only took 13 attempts.

Not off the charts, but very good. In any case, I would have to wonder how many people even remembered him from his Pistons days.

 

[Cheesebeef]

seriously, if this isn't the most likable team ever assembled from a "good guys" perspective, I don't know what is. Just on paper, they look like the bsketball equivalent of the 2001 D-Backs. Who could root against this team? You have Nash who everyone adores, Grant Hill the fallen superstar who has made this huge comeback, Amare and Marion as the sizzle, a little road-runner buzzing around the court, Bell -- that typical jerk on EVERY title team who you love ONLY if he's on your team, the grizzled vet presence of Crazy eyes and the Pillsbury Dough Boy -- not a bad kid amongst them. No wife-beaters, druggies, problem-children... just a solid mix of vets, youngs and experience. Hell, we even have our own Stache, just like the Backs did with Brenly.

i can't wait for this season to start.

 

[hafey]

He might not be what he once was, but Hill gives the Suns a guy that can get his shot or free throws off isolation. I think it will end up being a very helpful skill.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As negative as I have been lately, trading James Jones for Grant Hill is a positive move. Designating Hill as a starter is suspect IMO.

He will be much more consistent offensively, but I am not sure how he will be defensively.

We MUST keep KT unless we can upgrade.

 

[Chaplin]

As negative as I have been lately, trading James Jones for Grant Hill is a positive move. Designating Hill as a starter is suspect IMO.

More suspect than designating James Jones as a starter?

I don't think I'll ever understand why anyone would be upset with Grant Hill as a starter. Personally, I'd be happy with him off the bench OR as a starter, because that still means our first 3 off the bench will be pretty strong (LB/Diaw/KT, LB/Hill/KT, LB/Diaw/Hill).

He will be much more consistent offensively, but I am not sure how he will be defensively.

I loved James Jones' length defensively, and he was a good defender, but he NEVER was assigned the opposing team's strongest player. If his defense was so good, why is that? The Suns are built on a more team-oriented defense, something that James Jones wasn't that great at.

 

[goldseraph]

I've been in Orlando throughout the Hill ordeal. The guy is just really unlucky... every offseason he was doing tons of work to get back on the floor, sometimes he actually hurt himself by trying to come back too soon because he felt guilty. It's really just unfortunate but the Magic's perpetually ******** management made it worse. They could have had an injury exemption and nulled his contract 2 yrs ago but they passed on it. They also could have tried to trade his expiring contract and just... didn't. For some odd reason. God don't get me started on my Magic front office tirade...


What I wanted to say is that Hill is a really good player still when healthy. Last year he was usually the Magic's best player on offense (not saying much but still). He can handle the ball, distribute, post up, and shoot from mid-range still. He even threw down a decent fast break dunk at the end of last year and was the 'go to ' guy at end of games. I think this is a great move for the Suns and I have a good feeling about Hill's health.

 

[abomb]

seriously, if this isn't the most likable team ever assembled from a "good guys" perspective, I don't know what is. Just on paper, they look like the bsketball equivalent of the 2001 D-Backs. Who could root against this team? You have Nash who everyone adores, Grant Hill the fallen superstar who has made this huge comeback, Amare and Marion as the sizzle, a little road-runner buzzing around the court, Bell -- that typical jerk on EVERY title team who you love ONLY if he's on your team, the grizzled vet presence of Crazy eyes and the Pillsbury Dough Boy -- not a bad kid amongst them. No wife-beaters, druggies, problem-children... just a solid mix of vets, youngs and experience. Hell, we even have our own Stache, just like the Backs did with Brenly.

i can't wait for this season to start.

Great take.

I am sure the Suns will have the most national games this year for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[goldseraph]

Oh yeah, he also can get to the FT line which this team desperately needs in the playoffs when the game slows down.

 

[azirish]

Oh yeah, he also can get to the FT line which this team desperately needs in the playoffs when the game slows down.

It is easy to miss just how important this. Last season free throw attempts were:

Stoudemire - 585
Marion - 248
Nash - 247
Barbosa - 232
Bell - 152
Diaw - 120
Jones - 81
KT - 71
Banks - 60

Hill had 324 attempts. His free throw attempts were 49.1% of his field goal attempts of 660. Only Amare with 585 free throw attempts to 1055 field goal attempts were higher at 55.5%.

Overall, the Magic had 2393 free throw attempts for 39.3% of their 6090 field goal attempts. By contrast, the Sun had only 1827 free throw attempts at 26.6% fo their 6855 field goal attempts.

Getting to the line is one of the key factors in winning in the playoffs. In the first round, the Suns got to the line 125 times versus 108 for the Lakers. But against the Spurs, the Suns got to the line only 143 times versus 157. 1/3 of those free throw attempts were from Amare.

 

[playstation]

goldseraph- can you talk a little bit more about his post game? what kind of moves are we talking about? does it draw the double-team? how does he pass out of the post (usually to strong side or weak side)? is he a fadeaway kind of guy or does he try to back in strong?

i ask because i think that skill is something this team lacks and could really benefit from.

 

[SASpursfan]

seriously, if this isn't the most likable team ever assembled from a "good guys" perspective, I don't know what is. Just on paper, they look like the bsketball equivalent of the 2001 D-Backs. Who could root against this team? You have Nash who everyone adores, Grant Hill the fallen superstar who has made this huge comeback, Amare and Marion as the sizzle, a little road-runner buzzing around the court, Bell -- that typical jerk on EVERY title team who you love ONLY if he's on your team, the grizzled vet presence of Crazy eyes and the Pillsbury Dough Boy -- not a bad kid amongst them. No wife-beaters, druggies, problem-children... just a solid mix of vets, youngs and experience. Hell, we even have our own Stache, just like the Backs did with Brenly.

i can't wait for this season to start.

I dont know, I tend to believe the most likeable, good-guy team, was the 1999 NBA champs, the San Antonio Spurs. Almost every guy was a family-type guy with a bachelors degree.
DRob- an officer with a degree in mathematics
TDuncan-a college superstar who stayed in college to get his degree (psychology)
Sean Elliot-played at UA, very articulate, witty, college graduate
Avery Johnson-got cut about 5 times in his career but never gave up.
Mario Elie-one tough guy who was clutch in tight games- I believe he got a degree also.
Steve Kerr- UA grad, intelligent, pure-shooter, college grad
Malik Rose-a good player because of his solid work ethic, never forgot his roots (once
saw him shopping in a Walmart) college grad ( I believe)
Antonio Daniels- very likeable guy
Jerome Kersey- was a tough player when he was younger, college grad I believe
Jaren Jackson- a nonamer who played big in the playoffs.

 

[playstation]

so noticing that hill is about diaw's size and knowing that coach is crazy...

you expect them to see if hill can guard 4's? if he can, you could roll nash-barbosa-bell-hill-amare out there in certain situations.

not saying its a good idea, but interesting

 

[elindholm]

Knowing D'Antoni, I'd say it's fairly likely we'll see some of Hill at PF. We're talking about a coach who played Nash, Barbosa, and Banks all simultaneously last season, until its failure became so obvious that even he noticed it.

 

[sly fly]

No, the only wrong part is the intensifier: "so" overmatched, or "horribly" overmatched.

Yes, the Suns are inferior to the Spurs. The gap is small, but it's real. If the Suns want to beat the Spurs, they need to get better, or hope the Spurs get worse.

So far, the 2007-08 roster looks no better than the 2006-07 version. In terms of personnel, there is a bit more talent, but certain key players have gotten older, and not to their advantage. Furthermore, the 2006-07 version was improbably blessed with near perfect health, which would be foolish to count on again, especially now that none other than Grant Hill is in the starting lineup.

And since the Spurs don't seem to have gotten worse in the last few weeks, I'd say the gap is still there.

- The 2007-2008 roster looks no better? Are you kidding me? PHX adds Grant Hill, coming off a season in which he averaged 16 ppg. Adds Alando Tucker, Big 10 POTY/1st-Team NCAA All-American.

Amare is one year wiser. One year closer to his prime.

Has Nash showed visible signs of aging? No. Most fish hacks would have named him MVP if the voting was done a bit later.

- SA didn't "methodically" decide to turn it on at the tail end of Game 5. PHX simply ran out of juice. Pat Burke looked like he had anchors tied to his shoes. And, Steve Nash didn't deliver the game I was hoping for.

- Never, ever compare Grant Hill and James Jones. Grant Hill has 5 ankle surgeries, and he can still whoop James Jones up and down the court.

- You've admitted to not having seen much of Grant Hill. So, how can you submit a valid argument to any of this?

- One thing stands in the way of PHX and SA: Tim Duncan.

 

[playstation]

one of the things that struck me while digging in the numbers: his consistency.

this guy doesn't seem to have those 1-11 clunkers. while his overall % is a superb 52%, its a highly consistent one as well.

for example, i wanted to see how many games he shot less than 40% last year while taking at least 10 shots. a whopping 1 time (out of 37 games he took at least 10 shots), which was a 5-16 vs chicago. to contrast this, raja bell shot poorly (according to that stat) 22 times (out of 64 games over 10 shots). nash shot poorly 5 times and marion did so 9 times.

to me, this talks about shot selection and knowing when you're not feeling it. grant is amazing good at that skill seemingly.

another show of a good shooter: in 8 games against the best defensive team in his conference (detroit), he averaged over 55% with only 1 clunker among them. he can do this to good defensive teams too, even at this age with no help.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I dont know, I tend to believe the most likeable, good-guy team, was the 1999 NBA champs, the San Antonio Spurs. Almost every guy was a family-type guy with a bachelors degree.
DRob- an officer with a degree in mathematics
TDuncan-a college superstar who stayed in college to get his degree (psychology)
Sean Elliot-played at UA, very articulate, witty, college graduate
Avery Johnson-got cut about 5 times in his career but never gave up.
Mario Elie-one tough guy who was clutch in tight games- I believe he got a degree also.
Steve Kerr- UA grad, intelligent, pure-shooter, college grad
Malik Rose-a good player because of his solid work ethic, never forgot his roots (once
saw him shopping in a Walmart) college grad ( I believe)
Antonio Daniels- very likeable guy
Jerome Kersey- was a tough player when he was younger, college grad I believe
Jaren Jackson- a nonamer who played big in the playoffs.

don't take this the wrong way but a) it was the lockout season and pretty much everyone was disgusted with the NBA and b) that team was painfully boring. Again, don't get me wrong - i'd LOVE for a team of mine to painfully boring if it meant they won a chip, but the team above really didn't have much that drew people to them like this team does, as evidenced by the ratings. Now, that's not to say in any grand scheme of winning titles that ratings are important, I'm just talking about how people are drawn to certain teams.

but, yeah, that team and the Spurs 2003 title team were a group of really good guys, as was the 2005 team, but they weren't the type of team with such high profile guys who people like to root for like this team will be. Now, that may not win us a title, but people are definitely gonna be into this club this year.

 

[dodie53]

woohoo!
hill!

 

[elindholm]

- The 2007-2008 roster looks no better? Are you kidding me? PHX adds Grant Hill, coming off a season in which he averaged 16 ppg. Adds Alando Tucker, Big 10 POTY/1st-Team NCAA All-American.

Almost every first-round prospect looks great the week after he's drafted. I know zero about Tucker, and he might turn out to be great, but counting on him at this point seems pretty suspect.

Has Nash showed visible signs of aging? No.

It was observed by many on this board that he became less aggressive looking for his shot late in the season, after he suffered the shoulder injury.

- SA didn't "methodically" decide to turn it on at the tail end of Game 5. PHX simply ran out of juice.

Sure, as the Spurs knew they would. The Suns were fatally undermanned.

Pat Burke looked like he had anchors tied to his shoes.

In his two-minute stint, sure, I guess. He wasn't prepared to contribute in such a critical situation.

And, Steve Nash didn't deliver the game I was hoping for.

See above. Nash was also lackadaisical in Game 6, until the Spurs opened up a huge lead and he realized, "Holy crap, my season is over if I don't pull off a miracle."

- You've admitted to not having seen much of Grant Hill. So, how can you submit a valid argument to any of this?

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like Grant Hill a lot. But expecting a 35-year-old guy with six major surgeries (don't forget the hernia) to come in and be the savior seems pretty far out there.

- One thing stands in the way of PHX and SA: Tim Duncan.

Is Hill going to defend him? Get him in foul trouble? If what you say is true, how does Hill help at all?

 

[nashman]

I'm sorry but this is a great signing! I don't see how any of you could complain about Hill, he is light years better than JJ and we got him for half the price roughly. We replaced an almost useless player with a Vet who is just basketball smart and can (and I expect to take some PG mins) flat out play BB when healthy. While his health is a concern we also have top notch training staff that seems to keep the team fairly healthy. While some of you feel he won't make a huge difference I beleive he will make a signifigant impact. As some have pointed out he has the ability to score and a solid passer and as I said before just a high BB IQ. I love this signing to replace a player who was not doing to much with a vet like Hill can only make us better. I also on a personal level respect the hell out of Hill for continuing to try and play through all the surgeries and hanging tuff when many players nowadays would have simply sat and collected their contract.

 

[BC867]

jones shot 100% - that's pretty good in my book.

Huh? Zero for zero is 00%, not 100%.

Or, to quote Billy Preston (who spent alot of time playing keyboard for the Beatles, as well as having his own hit), "Nuthin' from nuthin' leaves nuthin".

 

[azirish]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like Grant Hill a lot. But expecting a 35-year-old guy with six major surgeries (don't forget the hernia) to come in and be the savior seems pretty far out there.

Is that how you see this? Grant Hill is supposed to a "savior"?

I don't. I do think the Suns are a lot closer to being able to beat the Spurs than you think. So making a significant offensive improvement in the rotation (Hill for Jones) could be enough to get the team over the top.

If your point is that the Suns are markedly inferior to the Spurs that even upgrading one of the rotation players would not be enough to beat the Spurs, then of course this upgrade won't be enough. But the issue is not Hill but how badly you rate the Suns chances.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'll repeat. Grant Hill in place of Junior is an upgrade. I don't think anyone on the board thinks of him as a savior.

Also, kudos to Sarver for springing for the LLE. I do believe that, unlike the vet minimum, the LLE is NOT subsidized by the league. Its going to cost him a couple million over the vet minimum.

I've ripped lately, but credit where its due.

 

[az1965]

I was pissed after selling of the 24th pick this year again and ripped him also, but I don't think Sarver is cheap. Just like I don't think Bidwill is cheap, he just does not know how to run a football franchise.

 

[Michael]

Finally some good news. No. Great news! I love Grant Hill!

This is easily the most likeable Suns team - no, NBA team - I can remember.

If we could get KG, this team would probably re-define team chemistry. Too bad for that Atlanta pick...

I don't expect too much contribution from Grant, but whatever he brings will be highly appreciated.
Of course he's nowhere near that constant triple-double guy in the mid-ninetys. But his mid-range game ist still there as far as I can tell.

If he can stay healthy, everything will be fine.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Finally some good news. No. Great news! I love Grant Hill!

This is easily the most likeable Suns team - no, NBA team - I can remember.

If we could get KG, this team would probably re-define team chemistry. Too bad for that Atlanta pick...

I don't expect too much contribution from Grant, but whatever he brings will be highly appreciated.
Of course he's nowhere near that constant triple-double guy in the mid-ninetys. But his mid-range game ist still there as far as I can tell.

If he can stay healthy, everything will be fine.

Think of if that pick would have hit #5, and boston hit #6. We could have traded marion to boston for Ratliff/#5/Telfair... Given MIN #5/#6/Ratliff/Telfair/KT for KG... And MIN would have had #5/6/7 and expiring contracts up the wazoo. Grant hill wouldnt have even fielded calls from other teams, we would have vets fighting tooth and nail to play here for the minimum, and half this board would be running around the streets of phoenix buck nekkid.

Nash
Bell
STAT
KG
Hill

Bench: Barbosa, Diaw, every vet in the nba

Orgasmic