Hof now popularity contest on NFL network

[THESMEL]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/

just watched Michael Irving on NFL network and he still makes me sick - telling NFL to break out their credit cards for new hof staff. I have no problem with LT induction - but Kurt and TD would have waited in line a lot longer if they did not work for the NFL. IMO

I agree they are special story and had influence on the game, but come on man their are more deserving inductees by many numbers, length of career, and influence on the game waiting. To me hof is now more about popularity and faces we see everyday lobbying and pressuring hof voters to compromise.

Good job DJ- and Bill Bidwill for 8 decades, has had way more influence on the game and the NFL than Jerry Jones. Jones came to the party way late after Bidwill and many others survived the risks of depression, wars, competing leagues and collective bargaining agreements.

My point is the NFL was a sure bet when Jones joined the elite club. Not so much for William Bidwill, who never had a stadium for the first century. Jones has done some good things, but he couldn't hold Bidwills Jock strap, he would have folded under the old school pressures.

 

[NJCardFan]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/

just watched Michael Irving on NFL network and he still makes me sick - telling NFL to break out their credit cards for new hof staff. I have no problem with LT induction - but Kurt and TD would have waited in line a lot longer if they did not work for the NFL. IMO

I agree they are special story and had influence on the game, but come on man their are more deserving inductees by many numbers, length of career, and influence on the game waiting. To me hof is now more about popularity and faces we see everyday lobbying and pressuring hof voters to compromise.

Good job DJ- and Bill Bidwill for 8 decades, has had way more influence on the game and the NFL than Jerry Jones. Jones came to the party way late after Bidwill and many others survived the risks of depression, wars, competing leagues and collective bargaining agreements.

My point is the NFL was a sure bet when Jones joined the elite club. Not so much for William Bidwill, who never had a stadium for the first century. Jones has done some good things, but he couldn't hold Bidwills Jock strap, he would have folded under the old school pressures.

You are stark raving nuts. Kurt Warner earned the right to be in the Hall of Fame. As for your comment on Jones, again, you're nuts. First of all Bill Bidwill was an embarrassment as an owner. The man was cheap beyond belief. Conrad Dobler once joked that on a bus ride back to St. Louis, the team was given subs to eat and he said that Bill probably brought the leftovers home to his family. Bill Bidwill also famously said once that he never wanted to win the Super Bowl because his players would want more money. In short he turned the Cards into a laughing stock. Under his ownership, the Cards were the L.A. clippers of the NFL. Love or hate Jones, at least he tries to put together a winner. Even if he's too hands on and has done more bad than good, he has opened his wallet to sign key players. Bill Bidwill never did. In fact, when the Cards finally had a winning season in Arizona, instead of building on it, he broke up the team. Also, Jones built a dynasty in the mid 90's while the Cards were winning 5 and 6 games a season.

 

[THESMEL]

Kurt is 37th all time in completions and lower on most lists - TD ain't even on the yardage list - Edge is 12th now and even better on total yardage. Should have went in first - Say what you want about Billy Bidwill - but- Chicago never paid for a stadium- St. Louis either and just lost another team- Billy survived and paid Stormy for 1/2 - and after plenty of BS in Arizona - got a stadium and level playing field to compete. JJ would have sold or folded

Kurts honorswith ranking are pretty far down this page - numbers don't add up enough to take other potential hof spots- but the Bradshaw comparison is adding the 143 int + 102 fumbles compared to 208 Yds

Carson Palmer is #14 all time passing yards compared to Kurts #38 -

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

KW should've been 1st ballot.

 

[NJCardFan]

Kurt is 37th all time in completions and lower on most lists - TD ain't even on the yardage list - Edge is 12th now and even better on total yardage. Should have went in first - Say what you want about Billy Bidwill - but- Chicago never paid for a stadium- St. Louis either and just lost another team- Billy survived and paid Stormy for 1/2 - and after plenty of BS in Arizona - got a stadium and level playing field to compete. JJ would have sold or folded

Kurts honorswith ranking are pretty far down this page - numbers don't add up enough to take other potential hof spots- but the Bradshaw comparison is adding the 143 int + 102 fumbles compared to 208 Yds

Carson Palmer is #14 all time passing yards compared to Kurts #38 -

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm

I don't know what you're taking but I want 3 pounds of it.

 

[Lorenzo]

Terrell Davis is absolutely a hall of famer. So is Kurt warner. Kurt is absolutely one of the best qb stories I've ever followed I just wish they got that game in 08.

Michael Irvings lol also had to wait his turn in spite of his Irvin's over the top excessive popularity. So to some degree it is a popularity contest. But I'd argue that all of those guys are on the NFLN because they had hof careers. Not in the hall because of a ridiculous football talk show.

As far as Jerry jones what he and jimmy did is nothing short of phenomenal. Not just the success in the 90s but you have to consider how terrible they were when jerry purchased the cowboys and how quick they turned around. As well as the legacy of the regime that they had to grab the torch from. You also have to consider how much he has done as an owner to expand the financial side of the game. I'm not a jerry football guy because he drove the dynasty into the ground. but he is certainly hof worthy if you look at some of the other owners that are in. Now that jerry is back to delegating more to football specialists...it's not shocking to see them win some.

 

[Southpaw]

Induction by dilution.

 

[Shane]

Assinine... Both subject easily HOFers

 

[Chopper0080]

I struggle with the Terrell Davis entry. He was great. No doubt. But the duration of his greatness is what I question. Because of this, should Michael Vick get in because he was dominant for a few years? If not, is the difference because Davis' career was cut short due to injury? If so, why isn't Bo Jackson in the HOF. He was dominant over a short period of time? I guess I always figured that dominance over a long period of time is what separated players and what made them HOFers.

 

[Chopper0080]

Terrell Davis is absolutely a hall of famer. So is Kurt warner. Kurt is absolutely one of the best qb stories I've ever followed I just wish they got that game in 08.

Michael Irvings lol also had to wait his turn in spite of his Irvin's over the top excessive popularity. So to some degree it is a popularity contest. But I'd argue that all of those guys are on the NFLN because they had hof careers. Not in the hall because of a ridiculous football talk show.

As far as Jerry jones what he and jimmy did is nothing short of phenomenal. Not just the success in the 90s but you have to consider how terrible they were when jerry purchased the cowboys and how quick they turned around. As well as the legacy of the regime that they had to grab the torch from. You also have to consider how much he has done as an owner to expand the financial side of the game. I'm not a jerry football guy because he drove the dynasty into the ground. but he is certainly hof worthy if you look at some of the other owners that are in. Now that jerry is back to delegating more to football specialists...it's not shocking to see them win some.

Davis had 4 good seasons. How does that justify a place in the hall of fame?

 

[Shane]

I struggle with the Terrell Davis entry. He was great. No doubt. But the duration of his greatness is what I question. Because of this, should Michael Vick get in because he was dominant for a few years? If not, is the difference because Davis' career was cut short due to injury? If so, why isn't Bo Jackson in the HOF. He was dominant over a short period of time? I guess I always figured that dominance over a long period of time is what separated players and what made them HOFers.

Do you believe Gale Sayers should be in the Hall???

TD was ARGUABLY the most dominant RB over his span then any RB ever... He also won SB 2 of them and was a legitimate SB MVP unlike anyone you've listed.. as they should SB's matter

 

[Chopper0080]

Do you believe Gale Sayers should be in the Hall???

TD was ARGUABLY the most dominant RB over his span then any RB ever... He also won SB and was a legitimate SB MVP unlike anyone you've listed.. as they should SB's matter

No. I think four or five 1,000 yard seasons is not enough to deserve a spot.

 

[THESMEL]

I don't know what you're taking but I want 3 pounds of it.

You couldn't handle 1 lb haha, I posted the link - did you take a look at it? Numbers matter a lot - are measurableand show injustice- I think a Kurt and TD are great - but many better qualified hoffers are still on the bench including edge.

 

[GatorAZ]

I struggle with the Terrell Davis entry. He was great. No doubt. But the duration of his greatness is what I question. Because of this, should Michael Vick get in because he was dominant for a few years? If not, is the difference because Davis' career was cut short due to injury? If so, why isn't Bo Jackson in the HOF. He was dominant over a short period of time? I guess I always figured that dominance over a long period of time is what separated players and what made them HOFers.

Mike Shanahan was a RB guru. The Broncos were top-5 in rushing in the 5 seasons after Davis retired.

In the sixth (Shanahan's last year) they were 10th with Travis Henry and Selvin Young. In 2000 Mike Anderson ran for 1500 yards and 15 TD's (5YPC)

Clinton Portis looked like the GOAT in that offense.

 

[Buckybird]

I don't know what you're taking but I want 3 pounds of it.

Thesmel is still pissed off because the Cards don't run the wishbone & Matt Leenart broke his shoulder twice lol

 

[Lorenzo]

Davis had 4 good seasons. How does that justify a place in the hall of fame?

did he not have a 2000 yard season as well? that is better than just good. that is historic. I'll always remember his SB game against Green Bay. People are trying to say that the SB this time was the best ever. Maybe the best one ever to go to OT. I don't agree GB/Denver in 98 was much more thrilling from start to finish and you had so many great players making big play after big play back and forth. TD being one of them.

I heard this argument yesterday by rick gosselin one of the main HOF voters who is in Dallas. It sounded to me as if he did not necessarily agree with TD being a lock and I can see that. I forget how short his career was. He said that with TD exceptions were made based on his success in a small amount of time and his ability to help lead Denver to super bowl titles which was something they were not able to achieve without him. He also pointed out that in the future arguments would be made for guys like him and warner who did not play for many years. It sounds like they have some real drag outs in their meetings when they go to decide who makes what cut. a lot of people refer to the great system of running backs after davis left. but there were not that any that won super bowls. I will concede that Clinton portis could have been great if he played with Elway, but he did not. It often seemed like Denver was a QB away from winning the SB once Elway retired and the irony before TD got there was that they were always a RB away before then. So you can't really take the Elway from the TD or vice versa. you can play the what if for a lot of players that made the hall or did not make it. there are different standards for everyone for whatever reason. should there be one checklist that is all inclusive?

 

[NJCardFan]

Assinine... Both subject easily HOFers

Smel trying to compare Bill Bidwill to Jerry Jones is simply too heavy on the Kool-Aid. I mean I've seen some homers in my day but no one can say Billy Bids is a hall of famer with a straight face. He isn't only one of the worst football owners of all time. He's one of the worst sports owners of all time. Never in all of my fandom did he ever try to build a winner and when he did, they broke the team up.

 

[AZ Native]

You couldn't handle 1 lb haha, I posted the link - did you take a look at it? Numbers matter a lot - are measurableand show injustice- I think a Kurt and TD are great - but many better qualified hoffers are still on the bench including edge.

Harry posted this on another thread. It explains why Kurt is in the HOF.

http://www.101sports.com/2017/02/06/kurt-warner-great-american-story-makes-pro-football-hall-fame/

 

[THESMEL]

Thesmel is still pissed off because the Cards don't run the wishbone & Matt Leenart broke his shoulder twice lol

Even Matt leinart would still be playing if we were running more - but I want t win with a fundamentally sound offense, so CP and fits could reach their potential- but really you don't see that if you get a tv job - you pass more eligible players to the hof?

 

[THESMEL]

did he not have a 2000 yard season as well? that is better than just good. that is historic. I'll always remember his SB game against Green Bay. People are trying to say that the SB this time was the best ever. Maybe the best one ever to go to OT. I don't agree GB/Denver in 98 was much more thrilling from start to finish and you had so many great players making big play after big play back and forth. TD being one of them.

I heard this argument yesterday by rick gosselin one of the main HOF voters who is in Dallas. It sounded to me as if he did not necessarily agree with TD being a lock and I can see that. I forget how short his career was. He said that with TD exceptions were made based on his success in a small amount of time and his ability to help lead Denver to super bowl titles which was something they were not able to achieve without him. He also pointed out that in the future arguments would be made for guys like him and warner who did not play for many years. It sounds like they have some real drag outs in their meetings when they go to decide who makes what cut. a lot of people refer to the great system of running backs after davis left. but there were not that any that won super bowls. I will concede that Clinton portis could have been great if he played with Elway, but he did not. It often seemed like Denver was a QB away from winning the SB once Elway retired and the irony before TD got there was that they were always a RB away before then. So you can't really take the Elway from the TD or vice versa. you can play the what if for a lot of players that made the hall or did not make it. there are different standards for everyone for whatever reason. should there be one checklist that is all inclusive?

Compare TDs stats and ranking to edge - who is still waiting - you'll see the NFL bias

 

[Bodha]

It's always been.


Statistically Adrian Wilson had a better career than Troy Polamalu, and is comparable to Ed Reed.

Troy, Ed shoe in HOFrs.

Adrian? No. Why not? "Because he played for bad AZ teams". And? The HOF inducts players, not teams. Adrians play was HOF worthy.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

You are stark raving nuts. Kurt Warner earned the right to be in the Hall of Fame. As for your comment on Jones, again, you're nuts. First of all Bill Bidwill was an embarrassment as an owner. The man was cheap beyond belief. Conrad Dobler once joked that on a bus ride back to St. Louis, the team was given subs to eat and he said that Bill probably brought the leftovers home to his family. Bill Bidwill also famously said once that he never wanted to win the Super Bowl because his players would want more money. In short he turned the Cards into a laughing stock. Under his ownership, the Cards were the L.A. clippers of the NFL. Love or hate Jones, at least he tries to put together a winner. Even if he's too hands on and has done more bad than good, he has opened his wallet to sign key players. Bill Bidwill never did. In fact, when the Cards finally had a winning season in Arizona, instead of building on it, he broke up the team. Also, Jones built a dynasty in the mid 90's while the Cards were winning 5 and 6 games a season.

Regarding Bill Bidwill in the HOF I agree with you he should not be in it. Not sure if Jerry Jones belongs in it either. I feel Don Coryell did more for the game than Jerry Jones did and should have been in before him.

 

[Lorenzo]

Compare TDs stats and ranking to edge - who is still waiting - you'll see the NFL bias

True it is bias. if we compare stats there are guys that could be in. T.O. Is one although not a rb.

And I am clearly trolling with this one but statistics say tony romo is better than any other cowboys qb. So he should be in if staubach and aikman are in?

Clearly no he should not.

there is a lot of bias and the voters seem to make up the rules as they go with players. The only exception seems to be that if you transcend a franchise in some manner with your legacy that you leave behind... you seem to get the call. So yes it is a popularity contest and I contend that those guys would not have been on the NFLN if they weren't very popular.

But yes there are guys that get left out. You can never please everyone.

 

[Big D]

I wonder if we ever end up seeing a guy that is clearly deserving of enshrinement but gets repeatedly snubbed or made to wait actually tell the voters and the HOF to go to hell once they do finally decide 'it's his turn'.

On one hand I could see TO as the personality type to do so, but I doubt even he would put his pride before his ego and the desire to have that title and distinction.

I'm sure it's crossed a lot of guys minds before, but it seems like the HOF is the dream of all dreams for these players. They just want in no matter what or how long it takes or what ridiculous hoops they have to jump through.

I like what LT said back in the day which was something along the lines of if I'm not in the HOF they might as well close the place down. While I wholeheartedly agree, if anyone has ever read one of his autobiographies you know what that guy was doing during his playing days was BY FAR worse than anything say TO ever did. I mean it's not even remotely close.

 

[GatorAZ]

It's always been.


Statistically Adrian Wilson had a better career than Troy Polamalu, and is comparable to Ed Reed.

Troy, Ed shoe in HOFrs.

Adrian? No. Why not? "Because he played for bad AZ teams". And? The HOF inducts players, not teams. Adrians play was HOF worthy.

The voters have always put too much stock in Super Bowls. FTR i think Brian Dawkins was better than both of them and had the Eagles won a SB he'd be a first ballot guy.