Holding All The Cards

[FutureGM]

First I'd like to say hello. I've read this forum for three years now & just today decided to post. Probably because the lockout has slowed things down & I couldn't get my fix by just reading your guys' informative post. So I decided to try a conversation stater here goes. (This is purely for entertainment purposes so lets not be all uptight about what is or isn't currently allowed.)

You Now Own The AZ Cardinals!!!
You have appointed yourself President of Player Personnel. Graves & Keim are both retained along with Coach Whiz & Staff with the understanding that the faults laid with the previous regime.(lets hope this is true & Mike's transition into power changes that.) The CBA is agreed too, leaving Franchise Tags in place, a Rookie Wage Scale, Free Agency after 4 years, & a 56 Man Roster.(these are the only details needed for this exercise.) You have all the same ways (FA, Trade, UDFA) to fill your needs. What would you do?

Me, I would start with the offense. First I want the original Whiz offense, Power Running, Play Action, Vertical passing style & attack mentality while being versatile enough(Players Talent allows for this) to maintain long drives. Second I have to identify & acquire players that fit & can flourish in my system with tweaks according to their talents.

The QB question I believe can be broken down quite simply. First we analyze our depth chart & immediately cut DA. I personally like Skelton & would keep him as my backup QB & possible QBoF. Barlett can stay as the 3rd string/scout QB. Max Hall is nothing more than camp fodder. I would then contact the Eagles, Bengals, Broncos, & Marc Bulgers agent. All of these QBs have positives & negatives, none are elite. I would be okay with anyone of them after the mess that was last year. All have a shot of reaching their potential or reviving their careers. John Skelton has all the mensurable s needed as well. My main concern would be compensation. I do not want for any reason to give up a 1st round pick period! So with all that in mind I would offer the three teams a 2nd in 2012 & their choice of Tim Hightower, Rashad Johnson, or a 2012 5th round pick. At the same time offer Bulger a 2 year deal & see which of the four bites first. That gives me one year to see what we have with our new acquisition & Skelton so that I know if I need to draft a QB with our first next year. I prefer Palmer if I must choose but am ok with any.

At Rb I think we are set with or without Hightower. FB is also covered with the rookie Anthony Sherman.(plus one of my defensive UDFAs can play FB)

TE depends on two things: how committed are we to using our TE in the offense, & would we rather allocate those funds to another position. If TE is the way we go(I would but am open to other options) I sign Zach Miller to go with our rookie Rob Housler & Jim Dray. If we go in another direction I would sign UDFA Schuyler Oordt a blocking TE with potential to develop.

WR is Larry Fitzgerald, I would make him the highest paid WR in the league. Breaston I would offer a fair offer if he accepts good if not oh well.(I wouldn't offer a contract if we signed Zach Miller) Then I'd make a minimum offer to Doucet it can't hurt. Stephen Williams & Andre Roberts both show flashes at one time or another. The others are serviceable with the chance of improving. I'm intrigued with our rookie Sampson & would als like to pick up UDFA Ricardo Lockette for Special Teams(kick returner) & to develop.

Now the Line, which to me is most important of all. If no Zach Miller this is the only positions I'm spending on in free agency. First I would resign Duece Lutui unless he purposely prices himself to high in order to leave AZ, in which case I throw the same pile of cash to one of the FA Guards(Joseph, Clabo, Yanda, etc.) Then I sign Jared Gaither & Willie Colon to play LT & RT. Levi Brown is moved to LG, resign Brandon Keith, & I sign UDFAs Jake Kirkpatrick & Tim Barnes to Play Center.

This leaves me with a Depth Chart of:
QB-1 Carson Palmer (insert your flavor here)
2 John Skelton
3 Rich Barlett
RB-1 Beanie Wells
2 Ryan Williams
3 LaRod Stephens-Howling (possibly Tim Hightower)
FB-1 Anthony Sherman
TE-1 Zach Miller
2 Rob Housler
3 Jim Dray (2 & 3 move up if no Zach Miller, replace w/ Schuyler Oordt)
WR-1 Larry Fitzgerald
2 Andre Roberts
3 Stephen Williams
4 Demarco Sampson
5 Max Komar or Early Doucet or Ian Williams or Steve Breaston
6 Ricardo Lockette
LT-1 Jared Gaither
2 Jeremy Bridges
LG-1 Levi Brown
2 Rex Hadnot
C-1a Jake Kirkpatrick
1b Tim Barnes
RG-1 Duece Lutui
RT-1 Willie Colon

That's it for the offense I'll have another post for the defense & special teams soon. What do you think? What you do?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Other than having to keep Graves, I don't see anything I really disagree with. The WR I would love to see added is Steve Smith, once Carolina release him. He would be a perfect compliment to Fitz, Doucet, and Roberts. If we made those chnages, I'd have no problem givng a #1 to Philly for Kolb because the team would likely be in the playoffs and the pick would be late round 1.

My offseason:
Re-sign: Lutui, Sendlein, Hightower,Branch as the main guys.
FA's:top 10 Listed in priority
1-Stephen Tulloch
2-Davin Joseph
3-Steve Smith
4-Carl Nicks
5-Abrayo Franklin
6-Gaither
7-Kiawanuka
8-Barry Cofield
9-Zach Miller
10-Paul Posluzny

 

[JeffGollin]

I like the exercise...

...but I'd add one dubious "given" - that my evaluation of the available talent out there in free agency is as good as the Cardinal scouting dept.

That said -

QB - I'd sign (but not overpay for) the best available veteran (i.e. I wouldn't give up more than a 2nd rounder for Kolb, but - in the extremely unlikely case that, say, Belicheck and (a healthy) Brady had a falling out - I'd be willing to give up at least a #1 for him. It's all a matter of value. I'd also bring in a second-echelon veteran (like Thigpen or Hoyer) for "insurance.

RB - I'd be inclined to stand pat (unless Wiz feels that none of our FB's or Beanie is the answer in short-yardage situations.

WR - No changes.

TE - I'd be on the lookout in free agency for another blocking TE, but it's not a priority.

OL - Obviously, sign our own FA's. Assuming we do, we'd be in good shape at C with Sendlien backed up by Hadnot and Claxton. With Faneca gone and Lutui kind of up and down, Hadnot can replace Faneca, but we'll need more established depth at G. We can accomplish this by shifting Levi, Bridges and/or Keith inside, but if we do so, it would create gaping holes at tackle. At the very least, I could see our starting OL be: Bridges LT, Hadnot LG Sendlein C, Keith RG, L Brown RT (and Keith & Brown could swap positions). In any case, we could use at least one more veteran tackle and one more veteran guard on the OL.

DL - Good deep unit (assuming Iwebema returns to health). No changes needed.

LB - Area of need - Our first three L to R LB's (Haggans, Washington, Lenon) have workmanlike competence, but (regardless whether an aging Joey Porter does or does not return) we lack a game-breaking pass rusher off the right edge. We do have some potential talent, but still a lot of questions needing to be answered. We hope that Hayes will return to full health. We hope Schofield's development will stay on track. We hope Sturdivant will be the answer inside. We hope that Acho will either be a strong run anchor or pass rusher.

DB - Good and deep. No changes needed.

ST - I like Feely and Graham (Some fans and writers have been on Graham's case, but I think he's one of the top three punters in the NFL).

Bottom line - Our three priorities via trade/free agency - Quarterback, Offensive Line, Pass Rushing LB.

But - knowing Graves' MO, he'll continue to be on the prowl to cherrypick any good-value FA who can help our football team.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Funny how you said you read this for the past 3 years, but your join date is Jun 2011

 

[Pariah]

Funny how you said you read this for the past 3 years, but your join date is Jun 2011

Why? You can read the forum without joining.

 

[CardLogic]

Funny how you said you read this for the past 3 years, but your join date is Jun 2011

The site is accessible to anyone to read without registering.


As for the OP...

Any of the four options mentioned at QB are better than where the Cardinals are now. So, OK.

You totally underestimate Steve Breaston's value. While I agree in not overpaying him -You've got him listed as the 5th WR on the depth chart - that's absurd.

Too many changes on the OL, where consistency is critical. They changed three of five positions last season to what result? And you want to change four of five again this year.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the "origninal Whis offense" features Power Running or deep passing. The Cards had the opportunity to establish such an offense to begin this season (especially with a QB like Anderson who can only do that) and came out hucking and ducking.

This is a cool exercise, though. I'll go through it when I have a little more time.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the "origninal Whis offense" features Power Running or deep passing. The Cards had the opportunity to establish such an offense to begin this season (especially with a QB like Anderson who can only do that) and came out hucking and ducking.

This is a cool exercise, though. I'll go through it when I have a little more time.

+1.

This is the biggest disappointment that I have endured since Whiz got here, yes, even worse than last year's QB situation.

When you expect a power running, play action offense, and you get a bastardized run n' shoot/west coast offense it is a big let down.

When your two most run plays are 5 yard outs to the fullback, and the shotgun draw, it works on your patience.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Good stuff, FutureGM. Welcome to the board!

 

[Billy Bob]

Funny how you said you read this for the past 3 years, but your join date is Jun 2011

same here, I read for almost two years before joinng.

 

[Mitch]

Welcome to the posting board, FGM. Your first post is generating some good interest, so, imo, you are off to a very good start.

Here's my 2 cents.

QB:

1-I like John Skelton and hope that he will be in the mix for the starting job sooner rather than later.

2-No matter what, I do not want to give up the 2012 1st round pick---not with some very good QB prospects in that class---which means I am OUT on Kolb (too much to give up and pay for, imo---too risky). If he could be had for a 2nd rounder and would have reasonable contract demands, then I am all for it. But neither looks possible at this point.

3-I think trading a 2nd rounder for Kyle Orton would be fine---but not if it's a conditional pick that could become a 1st rounder---which is what I am hearing the Broncos want.

4-I am not convinced Donovan McNabb is washed up and I think he would be revitalized in Arizona---but apparently the Cardinals think otherwise.

5-I am somewhat fascinated with Vince Young, especially if Levi Brown remains the LT---because a QB who can threaten defense with his running ability would be a boon for the Cardinals. I think that Young will have to accept an incentive laden deal wherever he signs, so he would be worth the risk---and when he gets released, there will be no need to give up draft picks for him. I can see Young winning a Super Bowl---with the right team and the right supporting cast---and obviously with added maturity. The risk/reward with Young is attractive---especially when there's a good young QB on the roster to turn to in Skelton, if need be.

6-I am totally out on Bulger---not tough enough---not hungry enough, imo.

7-And the one younger QB I wonder about is Jimmy Clausen. He throws the three routes the Cardinals love to throw about as well as any young QB in the league: the out pass, the skinny post and the fade. Sure, the kid is a bit surly and comes across as being smug---but Kurt Warner was similar---and where I think they are both similar too is that they are stat and scoring hungry---famished even at times. I think back to Clausen's last year at Notre Dame: 68%, 3,722 yards, 28 TDs/4 ints, 161.4 rating---and the near "perfect game" he had prior to the season in the bowl vs. Hawaii: 22/26, 401 yards, 5 TDs---and then I look at two of his lines this past year:

@ NO (14-16 L): 11/22/146/52.4%/1 TD/0 int/90.6 rating
ARZ (19-12 W): 13/19/141/68.4%/1 TD/0 int/107.5 rating

On the worst team in the league---under some of the worst circumstances---lame duck coach---head cases and prima donnas at WR---etc.

The Panthers may very well be willing to trade Clausen---especially now that it's Cam Mania in Carolina---hey---he'd cost us probably a 3rd rounder and $1.56M a season for the next three years---another very good risk/reward scenario, imo.

8-Carson Palmer---a 2nd or a 3rd and Wells would be fine by me---some say he's seen his best days and they may be right, but I think he could be rejuvenated and reinvented in Arizona---that is if Mike Brown relents and opts to trade him---odds on that: not good.

RB:

1-Hightower---I love him, save the fumbles. Runs fearlessly (4.2 ypc in 2009, 4.7 ypc in 2011). Blocks well. Catches well (63/428/8.8 in 2009) and is a TD machine near the goal-line.

2-Wells---not so much. To me he looks anxious, jittery and at time a little scared. Not a good blocker or receiver---and thus not a good fit. May blossom in time---but how many carries does he get this year with Ryan Williams now in the fold?

3-Williams---if he's back to being the runner he was in 2009, watch out. It will be very interesting to see how tough he is coming in as a rookie and dealing with THT and Beanie---because, talent-wise, he could run right past them if he's motivated to.

4-LSH---love him as a change of pace speed RB---he's a real fit in that role.

5-Alfonso Smith---love his speed and think that he could be a surprise, especially if he shows ST prowess.

FB:

1-Sherman---love the pick---tough kid---gritty competitor---winner---great STs player which is what you want from a situational player.

2. Maui'a---thought he made good strides last year---still kind of hit or miss on his blocks and needs to upgrade his ST play.

TE:

1-Housler---basically a tall slot WR with 4.5 speed and good hands.

2-Dray---solid---high effort guy.

3-TBD---Whiz will probably keep Spach---who imo is disappointing. I hope for a UFA pickup---would be ecstatic for Zach Miller, but don't think that would happen. Kevin Boss, great...but again, won't happen. My sleeper is Dante Rosario (Carolina).

LT:

1-Matt Light (top priority other than QB on offense, imo). I think he has 2-3 good years left in his tank and would be a major upgrade. He's a lot better than people on the board think---I've watched him play his whole career, and there are times when he just seals off the backside. This is what we need.

2-Tom Pestock---keep an eye on this kid---he's got an edge to him.

LG:

1-Levi Brown---made to order if the coaches would ever consider the switch.

2-Rex Hadnot---solid.

3-Reggie Wells---hey, he's a very good pass protector---and that works well for our offense.

C:

1- Lyle Sendelin---I love this guy---smart, competitive, plays hurt, bleeds Cardinal red and has great experience having started for 4 years and played and played well in 6 playoff games incuding a Super Bowl---just coming into his prime.

2-Jake Kirkpatrick, UCFA, TCU---would love to see the Cardinals sign him.

RG:

1-Deuce Lutui---I love Deuce---feisty as any OL in the NFL---plays tough and mean and has a ball doing it. Has emerged as a very good pass protector---and can maul people in the running game.

RT:

1-Brandon Keith---I see what the coaches see in him. He's got all the tools and, when he sharpens them, he could be very good.

2-Jeremy Bridges---Ideal backup T who is a dependbale starter when needed.

WR:

1-Fitzgerald---I do believe he simply wants to win and with his focus and talent he enables you to win.

2-Breaston---I am amazed at the WR he became after year one---and I believe he can return to form this year.

3-Roberts---really emerged the second half of the season---very good in the slot and could be a very good #2 when called upon.

4-Williams---love this kid's potential---with confidence this year, could be a major surprise.

5-Komar---gritty and sure handed---he will be significantly better this year.

6-Doucet---has much to prove, but the talent to do it. At this point, however, there's little to suggest he can be counted on.

7-Sampson---very intrigued with this kid---was the go-to WR at SDSt.---even with Vincent Brown on the other side.

8-Isiah Williams---the talent is there---don't be too surprised if he makes a mad dash for the roster this year.

 

[40yearfan]

First I'd like to say hello. I've read this forum for three years now & just today decided to post. Probably because the lockout has slowed things down & I couldn't get my fix by just reading your guys' informative post. So I decided to try a conversation stater here goes. (This is purely for entertainment purposes so lets not be all uptight about what is or isn't currently allowed.)



That's it for the offense I'll have another post for the defense & special teams soon. What do you think? What you do?

Teriffic first post FGM. Welcome to the board.

 

[Cards Czar]

I like what you say FutureGM but where are the Cardinals getting the money to pay for all of those players. We will have only have arould 30 mil to pay for the rookies RFA and UFA. Now if Graves does some unreal structureing in the contracts maybe but Graves has never done it before.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We will have only have arould 30 mil to pay for the rookies RFA and UFA. Now if Graves does some unreal structureing in the contracts maybe but Graves has never done it before.

The Cardinals were 30 million under the cap WITH all those free agents signed, so we should have more than 30 million to spend.

 

[desertdawg]

Aloha Future!
I like your style already, one thing I wanted to comment on is the RB situation. A lot of folks assume it's Timmy on the block, but I just don't know. I like Beanie, last season was ruff reggae for him. Between the injury, the media junk, and the fact that everytime he ran the ball the defenses knew it was coming or were stacking the boxes anyway... it was rough. If anyone can provide a percentage of the plays Beanie was in, and the percentage of plays he ran the ball while in, I'd bet he ran it most of the times, which the other team would know.

Again I like Beanie, and one thing to keep in mind is he isn't back to 100% yet. I keep wondering who would warrant more in a trade, as is. Timmy had some strong runs but had the fumblelicitus, but he heads into this season healthy and has shown his pass blocking skills. Timmy is also a Whiz guy and the contract debate can go either way IMO.

Then I think about what Beanie can bring in a trade (again, I don't wanna trade either but the roster says no way) and I remember him falling to us in the Draft. Had a good rookie showing, then was gimped out last year.

So my question to you, my new fellow ASFNer, who would bring the best trade value between the two? It's all akuna matada over here bro, not uptight.

 

[Cards Czar]

The Cardinals were 30 million under the cap WITH all those free agents signed, so we should have more than 30 million to spend.

See this post.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=425175

 

[Catfish]

Funny how you said you read this for the past 3 years, but your join date is Jun 2011

Hey, I lurked for years on this site before posting.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Cardinals were 30 million under the cap WITH all those free agents signed, so we should have more than 30 million to spend.

Every year we go thru this.

Prediction - The gazillion dollars we think we have right now will turn out to be closer to $1.85.

 

[Krangodnzr]

See this post.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=425175

Nice read, I wasn't factoring in the increasing hits from guys like DRC.

 

[kerouac9]

It's not that we're not going to have money even if a new CBA is signed, it's that everyone is going to have a ton of money when a new CBA is signed (pretty much). Teams who did extend players during the season got awesomely cap-friendly deals due to the 15% rule (Revis got an $18 million first-year option bonus, but has a $7 million salary in 2011 and that number goes down for the rest of the deal!).

We're not outspending anyone for free agents this season. If you look at the free agency list, you can cross the top two names off it for the Cards, and at premium positions probably the top three.

FWIW, DRC's compensation for 2011 is less than a million dollars, and is $1.12 million for 2012. Whatever personnel spending you're going to criticize isn't DRC's fault. We don't have a lot of money invested on the defensive side of the ball outside of Adrian Wilson and Darnell Dockett, and besides whomever we sign to play QB the highest paid players on the offensive side of the ball will be Fitz and Levi Brown (a little over $5 million in 2011, although Rotoworld lists him as a free agent in 2012).

 

[FutureGM]

Thanks for the positive feed back!

Thanks for the support as well the Defense Post will be up later tonight.
1 Breaston would be my #2 sorry for the confusion
2 continuity in the oline is good but i feel we lack talent
3 whiz no proof just hopeful thoughts
4 money well this is how i or you would spend so. my defensive moves are more cost effective.
5 RB trade value depends on team i think.

 

[Snakester]

First thing I would do is go back in time and change our draft and get some offensive linemen and a passrusher, but for this exercise I will go with what we drafted.

At QB I would have drafted Blaine Gabbert, but I think our best young QB choice will be Kyle Orton because we should be able to get him for a second rounder and he should be a decent QB for a long time. I think Kolb will be too expensive both in picks and contract. For vets short term I like Palmer and Hasselback. Really though I am ok with starting Skelton and bringing in another decent option.

I would like to see us bring in Braylon Edwards and re-sign Steve Breaston at WR. Andre Roberts can be the fourth WR. I like your idea of signing Zach Miller at TE to go along with Housler and Dray. We will see if Whiz finally plays our TE's.

At RB we are loaded. I don't see any of them as being superstars but Beanie and Williams have the most talent. I think Sherman will be a solid fullback for us. He can catch the ball out of the backfield as well.

I am disgusted with this staffs lack of bringing in talent for the o-line. I am hoping we do sign a guy like Gaither to play LT for us. I also like your Idea of bringing in Jake Kirkpatrick to play center although I would let him sit for a year behind Sendlein and learn the offense first and let him come in and spell Sendlein here and there throughout the year. I would re-sign Duece Lutui and put Levi Brown back at RT and move Hadnot in to the LG spot. I really don't understand why we didn't draft an offensive linemen in this draft, but all we can do is hope Rod Graves is going to spend some money this year upgrading the O-line.

 

[conraddobler]

Great first post.

If you are intending to be a future GM never assume you're going to retain someone like Graves.

He's got your job, you'd have to at least demote him or you'd have no real job.

Me I'd want 100 page single spaced typed explanation of how the DA / Matt fiasco happened, not that I'd care to hear the excuses, just for the pure punishment factor of having to write it.

 

[Longcolts]

Great first post.

If you are intending to be a future GM never assume you're going to retain someone like Graves.

He's got your job, you'd have to at least demote him or you'd have no real job.

Me I'd want 100 page single spaced typed explanation of how the DA / Matt fiasco happened, not that I'd care to hear the excuses, just for the pure punishment factor of having to write it.

That would be Whiz writing over and over again, I Screwed Up?

 

[conraddobler]

That would be Whiz writing over and over again, I Screwed Up?

I don't think Whiz would ever admit that or even believes that.

Personally I think the whole thing perfectly illustrates our state of affairs.

The coach had to play a political game to get rid of wonder boy high draft pick.

Most teams would of long ago resolved the issue and cut bait at a time when someone else could of been there to fill the hole, but that's not how we do things and if that's how we do things then if you were the GM the first order of business would be to change that or resign immediately.