Hopkins Wants Out?

[Stout]

They were both abominations.

Word.

 

[Chopper0080]

Speculation, but I am more than willing to give him another go with a competent coach/GM.

Sure, but with his late season collapses, injury history and ACL, you think we get fair value for him? I doubt it.

Either way, Hopkins has been awesome but we need to get young and look to the future. He's like the only player that would fetch something decent.

Kyler was fine at times with Kliff. Give him a proven, better coach and he will likely be fine as well. I just don't believe you can hire another first time guy and expect a different result. You need a HC who can win a power struggle.

 

[Metcalf Rules]

Sad to think Dhop’s last catch as a Cardinal might be a whopping 4 yarder from Trace McSorely.

 

[QuebecCard]

Kyler was fine at times with Kliff. Give him a proven, better coach and he will likely be fine as well. I just don't believe you can hire another first time guy and expect a different result. You need a HC who can win a power struggle.

If one approaches this relationship as a power struggle, both lose.

You win by giving a convincing answer to the question: WHY?

 

[Stout]

Kyler was fine at times with Kliff. Give him a proven, better coach and he will likely be fine as well. I just don't believe you can hire another first time guy and expect a different result. You need a HC who can win a power struggle.

He'll have a lot of work to do to become fine again. If we get a proven, better coach and Kyler listens to the coach, yes, I agree. Will he listen if the coach isn't deferential to him? Because I can't see us winning with a coach that would be deferential to him. He needs...not necessarily tough love, but a firm hand that can guide him deftly. A chain mail gauntlet in a silk glove, if you will.

 

[QuebecCard]

Trade Hopkins for a 1st if you can, maybe a second and change. Otherwise just hang onto him.

Would like to keep him, but next year is a dud and beyond that he will be older and his production may drop enough where his value is even less. He won't be here for another contract anyway.

Have to rebuild. We missed our window. Kyler isn't getting traded. We will keep Brown, hopefully for a modest contract.

If he wants out, it's a buyer's market.

You take what you can get and move on.

After 2023 he's off the books.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that only works when you are not paying a QB 45 mil. Even aside from the fact that Kyle isn't sitting on the open market waiting to coach the Cardinals, his scheme will never justify a 45 mil QB. It can't. Jimmy G averaged 30 pass attempts per game this season. 29.4 per game last season. If that is what you want, just trade Kyler and draft a rookie.

Kyler has averaged 34 pass attempts for his career. If he drops 2 and shanahan goes up 2 from jimmy G it’s not a big deal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why would I? Would I take Lamar or Hurts or Allen out of those team's numbers?

Because it’s not the same rushing as just imposing your will on a defense. That’s why. Does it count as “rushing?@. Of course. Does it mean you’re a gods rushing team in the traditional sense? Not necessarily (and no in the case of the cardinals).

 

[Stout]

If he wants out, it's a buyer's market.

You take what you can get and move on.

After 2023 he's off the books.

For a top WR in the offseason? That's a seller's market all the way. We'd recoup a 1st for him, I am certain. And I'd take it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kyler was fine at times with Kliff. Give him a proven, better coach and he will likely be fine as well. I just don't believe you can hire another first time guy and expect a different result. You need a HC who can win a power struggle.

While I agree with you, there might be some first time guys that are capable of winning a power struggle. They aren’t the touchy feely soft spoken faux cussing kingsbury types.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For a top WR in the offseason? That's a seller's market all the way. We'd recoup a 1st for him, I am certain. And I'd take it.

Particularly now when there aren’t top shelf wrs available this offseason.

 

[football karma]

I just don't believe you can hire another first time guy and expect a different result. You need a HC who can win a power struggle.

this x100

to improve, Kyler is going to have to work on things he isnt comfortable with

my sense is he only does that with a coach he respects

 

[AZCB34]

Good luck finding that guy outside of Payton.

So it’s Payton or Kyler is a lost cause? I am down on Kyler more than most around here and I think by the time Kyler leaves this team he will have proven to be a organization killer but I simply don’t believe that Payton is the only option possible to try and resurrect Kyler. If he is then the Cards are screwed even more than I thought an hour ago

 

[QuebecCard]

Head Coach: ???

Offensive Coordinator: Drew Brees

 

[DVontel]

So it’s Payton or Kyler is a lost cause? I am down on Kyler more than most around here and I think by the time Kyler leaves this team he will have proven to be a organization killer but I simply don’t believe that Payton is the only option possible to try and resurrect Kyler. If he is then the Cards are screwed even more than I thought an hour ago

How can one kill an organization when it’s already been dead?

 

[AZCB34]

How can one kill an organization when it’s already been dead?

Point taken

 

[SoonerLou]

We should do a Check Yes or Check No thread about what coaching candidates could work with Kyler.


GatorAZ dont start singing the George Strait song.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I knew this was coming. First of many, I'm sure. This is among the reasons I have zero belief that Payton will come here.

Well I just started a new thread about Payton. We currently have the best odds in Vegas to land him. I hope your 0 belief changes in a few weeks lol?

 

[Zalixar]

How can one kill an organization when it’s already been dead?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Solar7]

To me, this all depends on the coach. If we get Payton, I bet DHop's desire to leave quiets down. I don't think there's a lot of other high profile options out there that don't scream "complete rebuild."

We're kinda in rebuild mode either way, but Payton coming here would attract better free agents at cheaper prices, IMO.

 

[QuebecCard]

To me, this all depends on the coach. If we get Payton, I bet DHop's desire to leave quiets down. I don't think there's a lot of other high profile options out there that don't scream "complete rebuild."

We're kinda in rebuild mode either way, but Payton coming here would attract better free agents at cheaper prices, IMO.

'Better' perhaps but 'cheaper', I doubt.

I want a well-organized leader of men at the top and, frankly, consider the choice of O-coordinator a lot more relevant to getting the best out of KM.

 

[BritCard]

He'll have a lot of work to do to become fine again. If we get a proven, better coach and Kyler listens to the coach, yes, I agree. Will he listen if the coach isn't deferential to him? Because I can't see us winning with a coach that would be deferential to him. He needs...not necessarily tough love, but a firm hand that can guide him deftly. A chain mail gauntlet in a silk glove, if you will.

Truly shocking were discussing how a new coach needs to handle Kyler like he's a demanding 10 year vet with a couple of superbowl rings when in fact he's in year 4, has a losing record, one garbage playoff game and a history of getting banged up.

If Kyler hadn't got paid early we'd be talking about him getting traded or letting him walk next year.

That extension might be the worst of all time and should get Keim fired on its own.

 

[BritCard]

For a top WR in the offseason? That's a seller's market all the way. We'd recoup a 1st for him, I am certain. And I'd take it.

I think his deal is a concern for some. Antonio Brown was traded at a similar age for a 3rd and 5th with a fat new deal, although you could argue his antics diminished his value.

I think a high 2nd and 4th is more likely, say to the Bears. But could see a low 1st too.

I also think it's possible Hopkins would redo his deal if a contender was interested.

 

[Harry]

I don’t understand the rush to dump Hopkins. I doubt Murray misses more than a handful of games and could well be ready at the start of the season. How do you replace Hopkins numbers at the same cap cost? Why if you’re trying to rehab Murray do you dump his favorite receiver? Do you really expect Hopkins to dog it if he’s not traded? That would only reduce any new contract he might get elsewhere.

 

[QuebecCard]

I don’t understand the rush to dump Hopkins. I doubt Murray misses more than a handful of games and could well be ready at the start of the season. How do you replace Hopkins numbers at the same cap cost? Why if you’re trying to rehab Murray do you dump his favorite receiver? Do you really expect Hopkins to dog it if he’s not traded? That would only reduce any new contract he might get elsewhere.

You are overly optimistic as to KM's return, let alone form.

If I saw the Cards in 2023 as a true playoff contender, I'd agree with your premise.

I don't. As such, I'm for stealing a march on cleaning up the team's finances in 2023.

It's not the player... it's the circumstance.