How bad are we really?

[Duckjake]

What? You mean on our current roster? For what we have paid this guy over the years I would take just about any starting LT in the league that is at the same pay level. His gamely false start (or two) is reason enough to not resign him...he is obviously too stupid to be coached. Besides, he is not an LT, in the NFL he should be a LG.

So we need to get rid of Wells and Leonard Pope as well since they are prone to "gamely" false starts? MBrown had TWO against the Vikings. Need to get rid of him as well.

So what if Davis was the #2 overall selection? Just the fact that he's still on the team and starting 6 years later makes him one of the best Cardinal first round selections in 20 years.

 

[earthsci]

So we need to get rid of Wells and Leonard Pope as well since they are prone to "gamely" false starts? MBrown had TWO against the Vikings. Need to get rid of him as well.

So what if Davis was the #2 overall selection? Just the fact that he's still on the team and starting 6 years later makes him one of the best Cardinal first round selections in 20 years.

Getting rid of Davis would be the same ******** mistake as getting rid of Kendall, Shelton and, to a lesser degree, Clement. Not that getting rid of them was a bad move, per se. It was getting rid of them without a better option, regardless of money.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

you transition him. That way if someone else really wants him, we will get compensation.

 

[earthsci]

you transition him. That way if someone else really wants him, we will get compensation.

I don't think that you do get compensation on a transition.

http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/franchisetransi.htm

 

[football karma]

On Leonard Davis:

First -- forget about his $10 mm cap figure this season -- thats an artificial number that is the product of a couple renegotiations of his contract that kept throwing money into the last year of his deal. Its not the starting point of a new deal.

"Middle of the road" guys in free agency are getting deals that average $3 million per year -- as evidenced not only by the the Milford Brown deal, but by what the Cowboys gave Kyle Kosier as well.

Given the lack of tackles in free agency -- prepare for a deal that averages $5 mm per year or more

I think we should bring him back, even at that price. Why?

First, it would be one thing if by signing Big, someone else would have to be cut. But that isnt the case here -- the Cards are like $60 mm under next year. Lets not worry about the Bidwills' money.

Second, the Cards need to head into both free agency and the draft without creating any more holes than they currently have. There is a dearth of LTs in free agency, and do we really want to go into the draft HAVING to draft a starter, and then counting on a rookie to keep our franchise QB on his feet?

If an offensive tackle is the best player on the board when the pick comes up -- great. Nothing like some competition and depth. But at least they dont have to totally reach, or pass on some great player like a Leinart that drops for no good reason, because they absolutely have to have a tackle. The last draft where the Cards employed the "I have to have a starter at a certain position" approach -- they ended up with Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace.

I know emotionally it feels good to say "get rid of the bum", but I hope the Cards are rational about this.

 

[john h]

I'm of the opinion that Green should go at the end of this year and I hope Carroll comes over to take charge. I like what Kubiac has done with this team and I hope he would stay. His play calling the last three weeks has been on target and with more moxey.

GBR
40

Green has been here 3 years with worse records each successive year. Do not get carried away because of a few wins at the end of the year. He does not perform like or speak like an NFL coach to me. He should be gone at the end of the year regardless. His tirade after the Chicago loss left me wondering just what goes through this guys head. I do not think he will ever Coach in the NFL again.

 

[john h]

ill pass on jim fassel, mike kruczeks offence was fine today and has come out of its 2 game hole when it first started.


unless there is one hell of a coach to hire we keep green, lets not fire him for the sake of firing him, if the next guy isnt better why do it.

He will be fired because of a lack of success not because just to fire him. I think he knows he is gone and I think the Bidwills are already looking for his successor.

 

[john h]

Getting rid of Davis would be the same ******** mistake as getting rid of Kendall, Shelton and, to a lesser degree, Clement. Not that getting rid of them was a bad move, per se. It was getting rid of them without a better option, regardless of money.

I think Big should be Franchised. Under a new Coach and possible a change of position he has all pro potential. You can bet he will get big bucks from some team if we give up on him. We already have to many former players making impacts with other teams around the league.

 

[JeffGollin]

Green has been quoted as saying the only way he comes back next year is if he gets an extension. Is there anyone here who will give him an extension no matter how we finish? Most on this board think he has been a terrible coach including me.

No, I wouldn't give him an extension "no matter how we finish."

But if we were to win, say, 3 of our last four games, I'd consider extending him for one year (with the unpublished understanding between ownership and coach that, if we don't make the playoffs next year, the second year of that contract becomes one-year's worth of severance pay). Here's why I'd consider doing this:

- You can make the case that DG is a good coach who let arrogance lead him into making several mistakes in judgment - mainly involving personnel policy gaffes and failure to do what was necessary to rebuild the offensive line.

- But if he has (a) fixed those mistakes and (b) learned from them, that would leave us with a good coach (albeit with an inclination to arrogance that would need to be held in check).

- The question then becomes - "What do we think the impact would be from (a) making a coaching/GM change or (b) standing pat?

- Bringing in a new coach with a new program would, yet again, dismantle the development of the franchise and probably cost us another 3 years.

- Perhaps we could hire a new coach familiar with our offensive and defensive systems and the current talent on our roster and who would leave things be. But then you'd have to ask yourself: "If we need a change, and the dude won't change very much, then why make the change at all?"

- If we stand pat with DG, what will we get? Will we continue to lose games in weird ways? Will he continue to have the support of most or all the players? Does he have other coaching deficiencies that will continue to undermine the success of our team?

- I have a different take on this year's Cardinals:

First of all, I wouldn't trade our entire roster straight up with any other roster in the NFL.

Second, I think we got flattened early by weird events that probably won't happen again for another 10 years (the Bear meltdown, the Rackers miss and the Warner fumble) and it was tough "to get up again."

Third, much of the responsibility for those three blown games and our inability to rebound must be placed on the shoulders of the head coach. But here's the question: "Will we see a repetition of this from DG? Or was it just an freak thing that we won't see again?"

Fourth, we shouldn't worry about what went wrong (and who should pay) so much as we should be concerned with: "Based on those events and how we've responded to them, what will happen in the future by our either staying the course or making a change?"

Fourth, If not Dennis, then who? And where will we be (a) next year, (b) the year after that and (c) the year after that - under either scenario?

Bottom line - It may turn out that it's taking DG an extra year to figure things out, and he needs one more year.

Or not.

 

[devilfan02]

Enough with the excuses, we're 3-9. It's cut and dry, you either get to the playoffs or you don't. It shouldn't matter how close we came to winning some of those games in the beggining of the season, we lost.

 

[jmr667]

Its not the losses to KC and Chicago that bother me about Green. Those were close, hard-fought games that went down to the wire against teams no one expected the Cards to even have a chance against. The part that I think should cost Green his job is it looks like he let the team get rattled by them then roll over for the Raiders and the Packers.
He would have cemented his reputation as a great coach by keeping the team focused on future games. Maybe even got the team fired up to take out their frustrations on the Raiders and Packers after losing to Bears and Chiefs.
In the NFL, especially for the Cards it seems, there are going to be times the ball bounces the wrong way and teams will lose some close games. Good teams tough it out through those times and don't provide easy wins to struggling teams the next week. The Cards need a coaching staff who won't let the team give up when things don't go as planned. I'm not sure Denny and company can do that.

 

[lobo]

Or not.[/quote

squared!

 

[lobo]

for whatever the reason "weird stuff" repeats itself to certain individuals or organizations ...can't tell you why but it does. history shows that we (cards) are one of those organizations....now my mother on the on the other hand has found in the street over a period of five years

one beautiful rolex mens oyster
one womens tag heuer
one "real" tennis bracelet

 

[joeshmo]

you transition him. That way if someone else really wants him, we will get compensation.

You only get the right to match any offers for Transition tag. There is no compensation.

 

[SECTION 11]

How bad are we?
We're freaking horrible.

 

[BigRedRage]

Seattle is going down!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You only get the right to match any offers for Transition tag. There is no compensation.

Thanks, must have gotten the franchise/transition tag mixed up.

 

[BlueTalon]

You only get the right to match any offers for Transition tag. There is no compensation.

Not only that, but the transition tag is a poison pill invitation-- definitely do not use if you suspect the player might be the least bit angry at the club.

 

[BigRedRage]

Not only that, but the transition tag is a poison pill invitation-- definitely do not use if you suspect the player might be the least bit angry at the club.

It was reported that the owners were displeased with the poison pills and those contracts are no longer allowed.