How bad is the O-line?

[DKCards]

They had 11 different starters in 2005. LD started 15, Ross started 12, 5 players had 9 starts and 4 had 3 or less. They had 8 different line ups. They had a block of 2 games with their projected pre seasons starters playing (not very good games by the way, not that any were). Another block of 2 with a second year C playing in his first two games. A block of 4 games as one unit with a DE playing RT. Another block of 4 games with a 5th year tackle that had only started 1 game in his prior 4 years playing at LG. And then 4 games with completely different line ups. Then they were lead by a second year O-Line coach who everyone now knows was over his head for his position. Will constancy make then any better this year or is there a void in talent? Let’s look at who they have:

LD – DG seems to still think he is a Pro Bowl LT. Seems to have more mental lapses then physical. Often will get beat early in a game but seldom gets beat twice by the same move. Too many false start penalties. Needs to be more nasty and play with fire.

Ross – Paid a lot of money to come in as a FA last year. Got hurt in training camp and never looked good. Was known for his run blocking and mean streak but it didn’t show last year. He played well with a good Pitt line and is not as bad as he seemed this year. Played the whole year with a rookie or converted DE beside him. There is talk of moving him inside but he has always played tackle.

Wells – Had a solid 2004 followed up by a solid 2005 until he got hurt. Nothing flashy but it has been said that Loney thinks he is one of their best linemen. Might get a shot at center.

E Brown – Was thrown into the fire as a rookie. Was learning on the job. One more off season so do him a lot of good to go along with the experience he received.

Step – Started as a rookie in 2004. Seemed to fall back a little in 2005. Problems with line calls or was it coaching? Ended the year on IR. Good depth player but not sold on him as a starter.

Leckey – Took over at center in week 8 and never gave it back. Line seemed to pass protect better but the running game still did not get going. I would be curious to see how Loney grades him out.

M. Brown – Came from a top 10 ground game but also a team that gave up the most sacks in the league. I didn’t watch the Texans much so I have no real knowledge. He is a big boy at 330+lbs and should be able to help out our running game. I hope the passing problems were more of a team problem then an individual one.

Depth – Ellington, Cantu, Allen, and Wakefield.

Can these players make a good O-line? Why or why not. If they do not add anyone what is the starting line up going to be? Will Edge make them better or will they bring him down?

 

[Doc Cardinal]

LD – Not sure if he's a pro bowler but I think he can adequately protect Warner and that James will help Kurt as well.

Ross – He concerns me the most. Is he a right tackle? Is he a right guard? Is he someone we should cut? My gut feeling is that he will play better when healthy and when we have a right guard who plays on a regular basis.
.

Wells – I think he wins the right or left guard position.


W. Brown - I think he wins the right or left guard position.

E. Brown – Looks to be a quality back-up but who knows.

Step – I think he was hurt last year....will battle Leckey.

Leckey – Can be the starter but look out for Step.


Draftee - Look for a draftee to push or win the job away from Ross at RT.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Can these players make a good O-line? Why or why not. If they do not add anyone what is the starting line up going to be? Will Edge make them better or will they bring him down?

The offensive line sucked two years ago and so we brought in Oliver Ross and drafted Elton Brown.

Last year the offensive line sucked just as hard and so far all they have done is sign Milford Brown. Apparently he is great at run blocking but not so great in pass protection. How this is an helps improve the offensive line I don't know.

We have to sign Mawe or Runyon. If we draft a couple of offensive linemen they won't be ready for a couple of years. Our offensive line has and still is our biggest weakness. We have to have some cap $$ to sign a solid linemen. Did KC recall that guy they cut last week?

 

[WildBB]

LD – Draftee - Look for a draftee to push or win the job away from Ross at RT.

They might be considering taking Winston Justice at 10. It'd be hard to pass on some other guys to take him though, so I think that they'll find one in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. There are some very good guards that should go in the 2nd round and possibly Mangold the OSU center. But we will wind up with more OLmen this draft.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Pass blocking was more than adequate in 2005.

Run blocking was terrible but Edge, Loney, and health should make it appear serviceable.

 

[Harry]

Bad, but good coaching could make it a great deal better.

 

[Goldfield]

IF nobody else is added, I can see the Starters looking like this:

LT-BIG, LG-BROWN, C-Lecky, RG-BROWN, RT-Wells

With Coaching & Edge I think it will be improved. But I would like to see us sign one more solid tackle or guard...

 

[JeffGollin]

Lest we ignore this - it may turn out that the biggest upgrade to our pass blocking will come in the form of Edgerrin James (and not just because he can run either. He's considered very good at picking up the blitz).

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

The line coaching change could be as effective as any free agent signing we could make. The fact that these guys are now blocking for a proven back also put the pressure on the line to perform.

Let's do it O-line!

 

[DevonCardsFan]

The offensive line sucked two years ago and so we brought in Oliver Ross and drafted Elton Brown.

Last year the offensive line sucked just as hard and so far all they have done is sign Milford Brown. Apparently he is great at run blocking but not so great in pass protection. How this is an helps improve the offensive line I don't know.

We have to sign Mawe or Runyon. If we draft a couple of offensive linemen they won't be ready for a couple of years. Our offensive line has and still is our biggest weakness. We have to have some cap $$ to sign a solid linemen. Did KC recall that guy they cut last week?

I'm with you, they needed to blow up this line, they are trying to put a band aid on a major head wound its not gonna work. Put Barry Sanders in his prime and BArry would be killed last year

 

[CoachBigDog]

I agree

Bump

 

[slanidrac16]

This line lacked everything last year, but lets put things into perspective.

New OC.
New offense
New QB
Rookie RG
No continuity whatsoever.
Second year center
New acquisition Ross injured early
Rash of injuries.
Rookie RB
Inexperience line coach

When you look at this list, every issue could be looked at as an being somewhat addressed. This Cardinal offense now has the ability to dictate to opposing defenses.
Go ahead, put 8 men in the box....we dare you. Go ahead, drop 7 into coverage, we dare you. Go ahead, blitz . We dare you.
Probably the biggest improvement will be a true to life play/action pass opportunity.
I'm feeling a whole lot better than I did 2 days ago.

 

[Redsz]

This is how I see the starting line at the moment...

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Elton Brown.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Milford Brown.
RT: Oliver Ross.

Ideally, when the season starts I would want to see some changes:

I would move Ross inside because I don't think he can handle the space at tackle. Apart from his injury problems - I believe Ross suffered from the culture shock of Arizona vs Pittsburgh. He came from a team that would run on practically every down in the Steelers to a team that would pass on every down in the Cardinals. This really highlighted the weakness in his game which is his slow foot work. It is my opinion that if we are going to see Ross improve, we have to move him inside so he won't have to deal with space and he can maximise his skill set (size, strength and agression) in the ground game.

If we do move Ross inside, that creates a hole at RT. This would have to be addressed either through the draft or through FA. I think it's more likely to be in the draft at this stage based on Green's recent comments. Luckily for us the draft is deep at tackle and we can easily grab a quality prospect in the first three rounds. Personally, I'm warming up to Winston Justice everyday and would be fine with drafting him #10 overall depending who is off the board (Huff).

With that in mind my ideal starting line would be:

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Oliver Ross.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Milford Brown.
RT: Winston Justice.

 

[conraddobler]

This is how I see the starting line at the moment...

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Elton Brown.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Milford Brown.
RT: Oliver Ross.

Ideally, when the season starts I would want to see some changes:

I would move Ross inside because I don't think he can handle the space at tackle. Apart from his injury problems - I believe Ross suffered from the culture shock of Arizona vs Pittsburgh. He came from a team that would run on practically every down in the Steelers to a team that would pass on every down in the Cardinals. This really highlighted the weakness in his game which is his slow foot work. It is my opinion that if we are going to see Ross improve, we have to move him inside so he won't have to deal with space and he can maximise his skill set (size, strength and agression) in the ground game.

If we do move Ross inside, that creates a hole at RT. This would have to be addressed either through the draft or through FA. I think it's more likely to be in the draft at this stage based on Green's recent comments. Luckily for us the draft is deep at tackle and we can easily grab a quality prospect in the first three rounds. Personally, I'm warming up to Winston Justice everyday and would be fine with drafting him #10 overall depending who is off the board (Huff).

With that in mind my ideal starting line would be:

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Oliver Ross.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Milford Brown.
RT: Winston Justice.

I agrew with you almost enitrely, especially Wells at C.

I think he'd make a great center, he seems to be smart and his abilities are ideal at center, he's not overly big but he does well in small spaces, he's one of our quicker linemen, should be a good choice there.

I really think Ross needs to be evaluated when he's healthy and acclimated here before we move him.

 

[CardEd]

This is how I see the starting line at the moment...

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Elton Brown.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Milford Brown.
RT: Oliver Ross.

.

Anyone else concerned with the right side of the line in pass protection. A lot of what I have read about M.brown's strength is in run blocking. We all saw what O. Ross gave us last year in pass blocking. Will E. James blocking skills assist us in this area?

 

[AntSports Steve]

Well, I think last year in HOU, Milforf played LG and I know that Elton played RG all year, so unless you want them to regress, they should stay on the side where they are used to. That gives a line of :

LT: Leonard Davis.
LG: Milford Brown.
C: Reggie Wells.
RG: Elton Brown
RT: Oliver Ross.

Wells could be solid up the middle, providing an upgrade. Plus, he should now be considered a vet as he's been on the Cards roster for some time now. He's not 1 or 2 years away from college. So, Wells upgrades the Center postion.

LG with Milford gives quite a bit of size to that left side. With that much meat over there, it's got to be a minor improvment.

Now, I'm not happy with Elton and Ross playing next to each other. Elton still makes mental mistakes (killing Warner) and he's basicly still a rookie. I'd rather have Elton be the 1st backup.

Instead of switching sides, if Ross can play guard (Still to be seen as guards need to move and pull), you move Ross to RG so it's not much of a transition.

So, at RT, I would want an older veteran, Runyon, possibly. That way any rookie drafted will have 2 years to train and not be tossed into the fire until injuries happen. Right now, if Ross is the RT and he either gets injured again or just sucks, the backup RT is who? Wakefield still? I don't think the Cards should play musical chairs again and start moving everyone around to get the best players on the field. Instead, a Vet RT and a rookie RT would fill the position without wrecking the rest of the line when injuries happen.

So, to fix it, get Runyon, draft rookie RT (round 2?) :

Starter --> Backup
LT: Leonard Davis --> ????
LG: Milford Brown --> Step/Lecky
C: Reggie Wells --> Step/Lecky
RG: Oliver Ross --> Elton Brown
RT: Runyon --> Rookie

That keeps most of the OL inplace when an injury happens. The only thing that screws up everything is if LDavis gets injured.

So, Left side would be upgraded. Center is upgraded. Ross should be more consistant that rookie Elton was so upgraded RG. And finally Runyon would be a big improvement over how Ross played last year (plus he can help keep Ross's screwups to a min).

So, upgrades across the board. Add a better blocking TE and Edge and roadgrade!

That's my plan.

 

[Redsz]

Well, I think last year in HOU, Milforf played LG and I know that Elton played RG all year, so unless you want them to regress, they should stay on the side where they are used to.

I would of kept Milford on the left as well. But during his press confrence he was asked what postion he would be playing and he said that indications were that it would be RG.

 

[spanky1]

I agrew with you almost enitrely, especially Wells at C.

I think he'd make a great center, he seems to be smart and his abilities are ideal at center, he's not overly big but he does well in small spaces, he's one of our quicker linemen, should be a good choice there.

I really think Ross needs to be evaluated when he's healthy and acclimated here before we move him.

I don't get this "Wells isn't overly "big" comment. He is 6'4"/324. Should he be moved to Center, there might be only one-two other Centers in the league who have these measurables.

 

[DKCards]

I would of kept Milford on the left as well. But during his press confrence he was asked what postion he would be playing and he said that indications were that it would be RG.

This kind of tells me that Wells will not make the move to center. If that is the case I think they need to pick up a center some how. That becomes more important then a RT to me.

 

[JeffGollin]

Interesting tidbit by Rod Graves in today's AZR. He said that, although Wright is the only remaining visitor scheduled to come in (tomorrow), future visits by FA's won't be ruled out and the schedules kept flexible "as things develop day to day."

Fantasy of the Day - Phone call from Jon Runyon's agent to Rod: "This may surprise you, Rod but we'd like to come out and explore the possibility of Jon winding up in AZ as your new RT."

If Rod could pull it off, that would shake up the OL inertia pretty good.

(Note - Along these lines, I wonder what Oliver Ross's cap hit would be if he were to become expendible? Could his cap-situation actually net out as a positive and free up a few extra pesos to make room for Runyon?)

 

[Cardiac]

Only 1 OT on this unit

I'm flat out scared to death about the OT position. BIG is the only proven quality starter at the OT position on our current roster. In the past 2 seasons he has not made it past the 15th game of the season.

Is anyone excited or even satisfied with Ross, Wakefield or Haeyer? One of them is a starter and the other 2 backups. Who in gods name is going to step in for BIG if he gets injured.

I gotta believe G's are still creating a smoke screen, we have to get a FA OT.

If not then Wells has to be part of plan B for OT.

I just hope Loney and Green aren't counting on Ross to do 180. Injuries obviously took their toll on him last year but my gawd he was just awful.

There is a ton of Oline prospects in this draft and fortunately many at the OT position. I just can't see us drafting a OG or C in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year and that is where a great player will slide to us. We will have to draft a OT, DT or FS in these rounds.

 

[DKCards]

What about bringing in Trey Teague? I have no idea how much he would cost but I don’t think he is looking to break the bank. He is a veteran center that has only missed 4 games in the last 5 years. He is 30 years old but seems to be very durable. It would be that veteran leadership that they are missing in the middle of the line. That would free up Wells to play RT and we could have a line up of:

LT – LD
LG – M. Brown
C - Teague
RG – Ross
RT Wells

 

[Cardiac]

What about bringing in Trey Teague? I have no idea how much he would cost but I don’t think he is looking to break the bank. He is a veteran center that has only missed 4 games in the last 5 years. He is 30 years old but seems to be very durable. It would be that veteran leadership that they are missing in the middle of the line. That would free up Wells to play RT and we could have a line up of:

LT – LD
LG – M. Brown
C - Teague
RG – Ross
RT Wells

With what is available in FA it looks like Wells will have to be in the mix at OT, even if it is as a back up.

Loney has said that Wells graded out the highest of all of our Oline, hopefully he can transition to the OT position.