How can the triangle offense be stopped?

[phxsun_fan_ph]

oh i hate the lakers....

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think much about the triangle offense as the Lakers were just above average before Gasol came along. I think like any other offense a coach needs the players to execute it. The Suns didn't have trouble beating the Lakers over the past four seasons because the Suns had the personnel to execute their own offense.

Anyway, the Lakers appear very mortal on some nights including the Suns game and losing to the Kings in the game prior. Like anything in the NBA, it's mostly about talent.

 

[Louis]

Rectangle defense

 

[LV-Suns]

 

[nowagimp]

Ask the celtics, they thumped the lakers pretty good in last years finals.

 

[Duke of Oysters]

oh i hate the lakers....

Besides Jordan's Bulls and Shaq/Kobe lakers, what other team has been successful with the triangle? I do recall the Suns once using the triangle.

 

[shazaam6]

Rectangle defense

 

[nowagimp]

Besides Jordan's Bulls and Shaq/Kobe lakers, what other team has been successful with the triangle? I do recall the Suns once using the triangle.

Yeah if you dont have jordan/pippen or kobe/shaq, you cant win with the triangle.

 

[Hayduke]

Isn't Phil the only coach to really use it. It's kinda of his trademark right? Hence the bulls and lakers. Not to mention the lakers have been and are currently winning with it, without shaq... Offense is offense.
Who was coaching the Suns for that period?
The Celtics were sooooooo ****ing dirty in the playoffs though. Omg they got away with murder. Still, it just takes commitment to D.

 

[Duke of Oysters]

Isn't Phil the only coach to really use it. It's kinda of his trademark right? Hence the bulls and lakers. Not to mention the lakers have been and are currently winning with it, without shaq... Offense is offense.
Who was coaching the Suns for that period?
The Celtics were sooooooo ****ing dirty in the playoffs though. Omg they got away with murder. Still, it just takes commitment to D.

Cotton Fitzsimmons. 1996. After Barkley was traded.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah if you dont have jordan/pippen or kobe/shaq, you cant win with the triangle.

Yeah, the Suns went 0-fer with it. They didn't win one game until they dumped it. Clement tried it in Dallas too, with Jason Kidd no less. It was a disaster. The triangle has never been successful without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant playing the 2.

 

[Hayduke]

Yeah, the Suns went 0-fer with it. They didn't win one game until they dumped it. Clement tried it in Dallas too, with Jason Kidd no less. It was a disaster. The triangle has never been successful without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant playing the 2.

Wait, what IF Phil had... say Dwyane Wade (or Lebron?) playing for him instead? I'm sure he knows what it takes to play that specific offense. It's too bad he has only coached those two teams.

 

[nowagimp]

Wait, what IF Phil had... say Dwyane Wade (or Lebron?) playing for him instead? I'm sure he knows what it takes to play that specific offense. It's too bad he has only coached those two teams.

Could be, those guys are playing better than kobe now. DWade has great defensive PER and a crushing offensive PER. Lebron is the best, period. Kobe seems to be on the downside, not nearly as explosive as he used to be. Who knows, maybe PJ cant win with a kobe Bryant ont he downside.

 

[Hayduke]

If he can't that would be saying a lot about Phil... considering how ******** deep and talented the Lakers are.

 

[mojorizen7]

The Triple-Post Offense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense

The system's most important feature is the sideline triangle created between the center, who stands at the low post; the forward, at the wing, and the guard at the corner. The team's other guard stands at the top of the key and the weak-side forward is on the weak-side high post — together forming the "two-man game".
The goal of the offense is to fill those five spots, which creates good spacing between players and allows each one to pass to four teammates. Every pass and cut has a purpose and everything is dictated by the defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cotton Fitzsimmons. 1996. After Barkley was traded.

You're right, Cotton could stop the triangle. He scrapped it.

 

[Errntknght]

The Triple-Post Offense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
Quote:
The system's most important feature is the sideline triangle created between the center, who stands at the low post; the forward, at the wing, and the guard at the corner. The team's other guard stands at the top of the key and the weak-side forward is on the weak-side high post — together forming the "two-man game".
The goal of the offense is to fill those five spots, which creates good spacing between players and allows each one to pass to four teammates. Every pass and cut has a purpose and everything is dictated by the defense.

What sets the 'triangle' apart from other motion offenses is not so much its pattern of positions but the fact that the responses of the offense to what the defense does are all defined in the playbook - which is exactly what makes it so difficult to learn and, hence, to implement.

As far as beating the 'triangle' offense itself... the sure way is to have the team running it not being coached by Tex Winter. The offense as implemented by him has not been exposed as having serious structural flaws after a couple of decades of other top coaches doing their best to find them. Of course, neither have more typical NBA offenses when in the hands of a capable coach.

I do think the triangle does give PJ a bit of an edge because opponents don't see it very often - its like a gimmick offense except that its of sound construction. The difficulty of implementing it keeps others from successfully copying it. I can just see some coach madly scanning thru 900 pages of documentation every time the defense makes a tweak.

It really is a tremendous advantage to know, without having to experiment for a day or two or more, how to counter what the defense throws at you. There is no doubt you will have that happen to you in the playoffs and you could lose two games before you figure it out. We saw an example of failing to know how to adjust just recently when teams started fronting Shaq and having a weakside F ready to pounce as the ball was thrown in. (IMO, that contributed significantly to Porter's willingness to go the 'Steve Nash' offense - because he had no clue of how to counter.)

Frankly, I think the structure of PJ's coaching staff is a help to his teams - he doesn't have to do the heavy lifting when it comes to the offense so he can concentrate on other aspects of the game. I'm not sure exactly how his teams operate on a day to day basis now but some years ago he said that he left the offense in Tex's capable hands. Few coaches that I know of have been willing to turn their offense over to an assistant coach - Larry Bird is the only other one I know of.

 

[dodie53]

kill Phil.

 

[D-Dogg]

Kobe seems to be on the downside, not nearly as explosive as he used to be.

Uh, no.

 

[JGKoblenz]

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