How Do You Measure Risk

[GatorAZ]

Maybe in some cases. But KK came claiming he could make Rosen his guy.

That would be one hell of a job interview if he didn’t.

 

[CardLogic]

Great insight in opening post! Thanks, Harry!

This reminds me of school when you had to write the same thing numerous times on the chalk board.

You must be registered for see images attach

I could be wrong but, I think that is Southpaw's intent!

 

[scandalous_b]

It’s pretty simple. You let Kliff choose his guy and roll with it.

this is where I'm at. we've already taken a home-run swing with KK. If that's what he wants, I'm fine with them giving him everything he thinks he needs. That way, there's no excuses for him or Keim.

Yikes. I could not disagree more.

You have the #1 pick in the draft. You don't let your rookie NFL head coach, who has literally zero NFL experience and no track record for evaluating NFL talent, make arguably the biggest decision in franchise history. Letting Kliff make the decision would be beyond stupid.

Kliff will have his input, but Keim would have to be an absolute buffoon to not make the decision for himself.

 

[DRM08]

Yikes. I could not disagree more.

You have the #1 pick in the draft. You don't let your rookie NFL head coach, who has literally zero NFL experience and no track record for evaluating NFL talent, make arguably the biggest decision in franchise history. Letting Kliff make the decision would be beyond stupid.

Kliff will have his input, but Keim would have to be an absolute buffoon to not make the decision for himself.

He recruited Mahomes and Mayfield. I don’t think the Cards front office will let him make the decision. But evaluating QB talent is not Kliff’s weakness as a coach.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yikes. I could not disagree more.

You have the #1 pick in the draft. You don't let your rookie NFL head coach, who has literally zero NFL experience and no track record for evaluating NFL talent, make arguably the biggest decision in franchise history. Letting Kliff make the decision would be beyond stupid.

Kliff will have his input, but Keim would have to be an absolute buffoon to not make the decision for himself.

I’m gonna go ahead and go with Kliff Kingsbury’s knowledge and experience of the QB position over Steve Keim. He may very well want to stick with Rosen but yeah...

 

[scandalous_b]

He recruited Mahomes and Mayfield. I don’t think the Cards front office will let him make the decision. But evaluating QB talent is not Kliff’s weakness as a coach.

Considering Mayfield was a walk-on at Texas Tech, I struggle to credit Kliff for "recruiting" him. Let's not forget Kliff also ran Baker off to go walk on at another school after seeing him play for a year. Not exactly the best look.

Kliff also recruited every player on a defense that was consistently one of the worst in the nation every season. Why would I trust his evaluation on Nick Bosa?

I stand by my original take.

 

[scandalous_b]

I’m gonna go ahead and go with Kliff Kingsbury’s knowledge and experience of the QB position over Steve Keim. He may very well want to stick with Rosen but yeah...

That's fine - but you aren't just evaluating QBs at #1 overall.

You have to weigh the combination of Rosen & Bosa vs. Murray & (Rosen trade return). Making that decision requires more than just QB knowledge.

Side note - why does no one give Keim credit for bringing in Carson Palmer? Even Drew Stanton was solid when he had to play. Why doesn't Keim get any credit for those moves?

 

[DRM08]

Considering Mayfield was a walk-on at Texas Tech, I struggle to credit Kliff for "recruiting" him. Let's not forget Kliff also ran Baker off to go walk on at another school after seeing him play for a year. Not exactly the best look.

Kliff also recruited every player on a defense that was consistently one of the worst in the nation every season. Why would I trust his evaluation on Nick Bosa?

I stand by my original take.

Yes, Kliff has major shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball (along with game management). He would not have been fired from that job if he was doing well in those areas.

Mayfield did not walk-on at Tech for no reason. He was recruited to go there. As far as running him off, the little sack of poo was extremely entitled. Played like crap in games against teams like KSU/UT and then demanded to be the starter for the bowl game instead of having an open competition.

Davis Webb's freshman stats were actually superior to Mayfield and Webb did not pile up his stats against garbage teams like Stephen F. Austin. All of Webb's games were against B12 opponents along with a P12 opponent (Arizona State if that means anything on this board) that he lit up in the bowl game. Mayfield turned into a much better player over time thanks to Lincoln Riley helping him develop. He was a very flawed player as a freshman.

 

[GatorAZ]

That's fine - but you aren't just evaluating QBs at #1 overall.

You have to weigh the combination of Rosen & Bosa vs. Murray & (Rosen trade return). Making that decision requires more than just QB knowledge.

Side note - why does no one give Keim credit for bringing in Carson Palmer? Even Drew Stanton was solid when he had to play. Why doesn't Keim get any credit for those moves?

Keim is still running the show. He would orchestrate a Rosen trade or trade down. I think KK would prefer sticking with Rosen but this is a unique situation where the QB guru can literally hand pick his guy.

Keim should get credit for trading for Palmer before Oakland released him but I think most people credit BA for Palmer’s success. Before Palmer became available BA handpicked Stanton.

 

[DRM08]

Keim is still running the show. He would orchestrate a Rosen trade or trade down. I think KK would prefer sticking with Rosen but this is a unique situation where the QB guru can literally hand pick his guy.

He's not hand picking anyone because the owner and GM are in control. The smartest thing for them to do might be drum up some interest in Murray and get someone else to trade for the #1 pick to get Murray. Then you've got some extra draft picks.

 

[GatorAZ]

He's not hand picking anyone because the owner and GM are in control. The smartest thing for them to do might be drum up some interest in Murray and get someone else to trade for the #1 pick to get Murray. Then you've got some extra draft picks.

That’s exactly what I think they’re doing.

 

[Garthshort]

1. There will be no 1st round trade.
2. There will be no Murray in Arizona.
3. There will be a Nick Bosa.
4. If Rosen doesn't improve, we'll be drafting near the top in 2020, and a former Alabama or Oregon QB will be our new QBOTF.

And I'm sure that I'm right. Or wrong. I love the Draft.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yes, Kliff has major shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball (along with game management). He would not have been fired from that job if he was doing well in those areas.

Mayfield did not walk-on at Tech for no reason. He was recruited to go there. As far as running him off, the little sack of **** was extremely entitled. Played like crap in games against teams like KSU/UT and then demanded to be the starter for the bowl game instead of having an open competition.

Davis Webb's freshman stats were actually superior to Mayfield and Webb did not pile up his stats against garbage teams like Stephen F. Austin. All of Webb's games were against B12 opponents along with a P12 opponent (Arizona State if that means anything on this board) that he lit up in the bowl game. Mayfield turned into a much better player over time thanks to Lincoln Riley helping him develop. He was a very flawed player as a freshman.

Whoa, whoa, WHOA.

You're posting the bolded part as if it's fact. Are you 100% sure of this sir, or is this the "conventional wisdom"? Or worse, what "someone close to the program" said?

Every behavior I've ever witnessed from Mayfield since he joined the OU program, from walking on at OU to compete against an entrenched starter (Trevor knight), to being the first on OU's practice field, to playing hurt, to sprinting onto the turf at the combine for every activity offered to QBs, demonstrates that did not act entitled. Instead, that he was more than willing to outwork everyone.

And, little sack of ****? Really?

If you're mad that he lit up TT like a Christmas tree in his Soph, Junior, and Senior campaigns, and gave the TT faithful the business while doing so. Okay, that's fair. I get the Mayfield hate. He appears to be vengeful. If I were a red raider or a longhorn, I would probably hate him too. But he's deserves a small measure of your respect as well I think DRM08

KK wouldn't even give the kid a scholarship. That was a great chance for a 19-year-old "entitled" kid to pack it in. To fade to black, and to go into the dustbin of human history.

Still, he rose above that, and all the other mountains of criticism and doubt that he faced in his life. He's certainly far from a perfect human being. He's flawed just as you and I are. But you can't deny his heart. His will to win. And I think that makes him admirable.

How about you take back what you said?

 

[DRM08]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA.

You're posting the bolded part as if it's fact. Are you 100% sure of this sir, or is this the "conventional wisdom"? Or worse, what "someone close to the program" said?

Every behavior I've ever witnessed from Mayfield since he joined the OU program, from walking on at OU to compete against an entrenched starter (Trevor knight), to being the first on OU's practice field, to playing hurt, to sprinting onto the turf at the combine for every activity offered to QBs, demonstrates that did not act entitled. Instead, that he was more than willing to outwork everyone.

And, little sack of ****? Really?

If you're mad that he lit up TT like a Christmas tree in his Soph, Junior, and Senior campaigns, and gave the TT faithful the business while doing so. Okay, that's fair. I get the Mayfield hate. He appears to be vengeful. If I were a red raider or a longhorn, I would probably hate him too. But he's deserves a small measure of your respect as well I think DRM08

KK wouldn't even give the kid a scholarship. That was a great chance for a 19-year-old "entitled" kid to pack it in. To fade to black, and to go into the dustbin of human history.

Still, he rose above that, and all the other mountains of criticism and doubt that he faced in his life. He's certainly far from a perfect human being. He's flawed just as you and I are. But you can't deny his heart. His will to win. And I think that makes him admirable.

How about you take back what you said?

What I posted is fact. Mayfield claimed in the media that he had "earned" the starting job for the bowl game. His performances down the stretch of that season do NOT support that idea. Take a look at the stats for both guys. Kliff had every right to have an open competition for the bowl game. Mayfield didn't even stick around to see if he would win that open competition.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/davis-webb-1/gamelog/2013/

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/baker-mayfield-1/gamelog/2013/

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What I posted is fact. Mayfield claimed in the media that he had "earned" the starting job for the bowl game. His performances down the stretch of that season do NOT support that idea. Take a look at the stats for both guys. Kliff had every right to have an open competition for the bowl game. Mayfield didn't even stick around to see if he would win that open competition.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/davis-webb-1/gamelog/2013/

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/baker-mayfield-1/gamelog/2013/

Okay. Maybe he said something like that to the media. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt sir.

But did KK offer Mayfield a scholarship so that he would "stick around"? In your opinion DRM08, had Mayfield at least earned a *ucking scholarship at the end of 2013 sir?

And do you have any doubt sir, any doubt. That mayfield would have gone on to win the starting QB job at Texas Tech, had he been offered a scholarship, and stayed?

I'd still like you to retract your "sack of ****" and "entitled" comments.

 

[DRM08]

Okay. Maybe he said something like that to the media. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt sir.

But did KK offer Mayfield a scholarship so that he would "stick around"? In your opinion DRM08, had Mayfield at least earned a *ucking scholarship at the end of 2013 sir?

And do you have any doubt sir, any doubt. That mayfield would have gone on to win the starting QB job at Texas Tech, had he been offered a scholarship, and stayed?

I'd still like you to retract your "sack of ****" and "entitled" comments.

I'm not going to retract those comments. He and his father are both entitled a-holes. Gary Patterson had similar problems with the two of them in the recruiting process. His father is a typical helicopter parent. Baker turned into a great player at Oklahoma. I give him credit for that. He developed way, way, way beyond what we saw out of him at Tech as a freshman.

I have no idea how he would have turned out at Tech if he stayed there. I think Lincoln Riley deserves plenty of credit for helping him develop into a Heisman level player. Would Kliff have helped him develop like that? Maybe not. Davis Webb actually got WORSE the more time he spent with Kliff. Pat Mahomes was basically the same guy as a true freshman that he was as a true junior (extremely talented, but not perfect).

Just look at the improvement in Mayfield's passer rating under Riley compared to when he was with Kliff. He took huge steps forward with Riley. Look at how Webb's passer rating got worse over time with Kliff. Then look at the passer rating for Mahomes. He stayed the same the whole time, lol.

So I think Kliff is very good at finding talented QB's, but I am not really sure if he's that great at developing them. Lincoln Riley has shown more ability in this regard considering how much better Mayfield and Murray looked with him compared to their earlier experiences with other coaches.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I'm not going to retract those comments. He and his father are both entitled a-holes. Gary Patterson had similar problems with the two of them in the recruiting process. His father is a typical helicopter parent. Baker turned into a great player at Oklahoma. I give him credit for that. He developed way, way, way beyond what we saw out of him at Tech as a freshman.

I have no idea how he would have turned out at Tech if he stayed there. I think Lincoln Riley deserves plenty of credit for helping him develop into a Heisman level player. Would Kliff have helped him develop like that? Maybe not. Davis Webb actually got WORSE the more time he spent with Kliff. Pat Mahomes was basically the same guy as a true freshman that he was as a true junior (extremely talented, but not perfect).

Just look at the improvement in Mayfield's passer rating under Riley compared to when he was with Kliff. He took huge steps forward with Riley. Look at how Webb's passer rating got worse over time with Kliff. Then look at the passer rating for Mahomes. He stayed the same the whole time, lol.

So I think Kliff is very good at finding talented QB's, but I am not really sure if he's that great at developing them. Lincoln Riley has shown more ability in this regard considering how much better Mayfield and Murray looked with him compared to their earlier experiences with other coaches.

Dude don't even bother. I have not once seen Crimson acknowledged the name Lincoln Riley or give him any credit for what he has done to that program. He is better than Kliff and I am 99.9% sure the Cardinals wanted him over KK. I think LR is going to be a great coach in the NFL one day soon.

His extreme bias makes any type of debate about Oklahoma an exercise in futility. Move on

 

[slanidrac16]

1. There will be no 1st round trade.
2. There will be no Murray in Arizona.
3. There will be a Nick Bosa.
4. If Rosen doesn't improve, we'll be drafting near the top in 2020, and a former Alabama or Oregon QB will be our new QBOTF.

And I'm sure that I'm right. Or wrong. I love the Draft.

Not ruling out anything. Rosen could be had if somebody offered a crazy amount like two # 1’s anda number 2. That isn’t happening. We could receive a boatload for the #1 pick but I would only make this trade with a team like Oakland and they wanted Bosa but that would cost theRaiders #4,#26 and # 35. If they offered that I think we’d do it. However , I don’t think they will. It’s Bosa #1.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Dude don't even bother. I have not once seen Crimson acknowledged the name Lincoln Riley or give him any credit for what he has done to that program. He is better than Kliff and I am 99.9% sure the Cardinals wanted him over KK. I think LR is going to be a great coach in the NFL one day soon.

His extreme bias makes any type of debate about Oklahoma an exercise in futility. Move on

Fair enough Rosen Fan. And may say I was joking (honestly) a little yesterday when I told you to be quiet sir. It felt like the right moment for a post like that to get a laugh or two... no harm intended... To your credit, you fired back at me appropriately, and I got a good laugh from your post. It was well done.

So let me go on record as saying Lincoln is the poop, and OU is incredibly fortunate to have him. We won't win another natty though, until we do something about our defense. Still waiting for LR to figure that part out.

Anyway, Riley does deserve a fair amount of credit for both Mayfield's and Murray's progress as QBs. Which, I think is another point for drafting Murray. He has benefited from excellent coaching at the college level, and he'll carry many of these lessons with him to the NFL.

Finally, I'm hopeful, perhaps even optimistic, that Riley will produce a Heisman hat-trick with Hurts in the upcoming season.

How is that sir?

And yes, you're right, I'm exceptionally biased towards OU. I will cop to being a homer.

But it pisses me off HeHasRosen, when people unnecessarily slander Mayfield and Murray.

 

[DRM08]

So let me go on record as saying Lincoln is the poop, and OU is incredibly fortunate to have him. We won't win another natty though, until we do something about our defense. Still waiting for LR to figure that part out.

That new DC Riley got for you guys is legit. Alex Grinch did a very solid job for Leach at Washington State. If he does that kind of job at OU, y'all will have a great chance to win a national title.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I'm not going to retract those comments. He and his father are both entitled a-holes. Gary Patterson had similar problems with the two of them in the recruiting process. His father is a typical helicopter parent. Baker turned into a great player at Oklahoma. I give him credit for that. He developed way, way, way beyond what we saw out of him at Tech as a freshman.

I have no idea how he would have turned out at Tech if he stayed there. I think Lincoln Riley deserves plenty of credit for helping him develop into a Heisman level player. Would Kliff have helped him develop like that? Maybe not. Davis Webb actually got WORSE the more time he spent with Kliff. Pat Mahomes was basically the same guy as a true freshman that he was as a true junior (extremely talented, but not perfect).

Just look at the improvement in Mayfield's passer rating under Riley compared to when he was with Kliff. He took huge steps forward with Riley. Look at how Webb's passer rating got worse over time with Kliff. Then look at the passer rating for Mahomes. He stayed the same the whole time, lol.

So I think Kliff is very good at finding talented QB's, but I am not really sure if he's that great at developing them. Lincoln Riley has shown more ability in this regard considering how much better Mayfield and Murray looked with him compared to their earlier experiences with other coaches.

Never heard a peep, not one word, from Baker's father during the three years Mayfield was at OU, and we'll just have to agree to disagree about Mayfield's character. You disappoint me a little here DRM08.

The rest of your post is quite chilling sir.

Holy moly.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That new DC Riley got for you guys is legit. Alex Grinch did a very solid job for Leach at Washington State. If he does that kind of job at OU, y'all will have a great chance to win a national title.

Thanks for the info. And thanks for (most of ) the content you contribute to the board. You're posts are always at least well-written, and I appreciate that.

I won't say "best of luck" to the Red Raiders in the upcoming year, but I do hope they go injury-free, and that all their games are well-officiated.

 

[DRM08]

Never heard a peep, not one word, from Baker's father during the three years Mayfield was at OU, and we'll just have to agree to disagree about Mayfield's character. You disappoint me a little here DRM08.

The rest of your post is quite chilling sir.

Holy moly.

I disappoint you? Boo hoo. The dude is not Jesus Christ. None of us are perfect. But he's done stuff in his life that I would never do, like running from the cops. His father called Kliff a "scoundrel" in the media, which is absurd. Kliff is not a great head coach right now, but he is a high character person.

Baker is a great football player. It does not mean he is a great person. Go look up Gary Patterson's comments about the Mayfield family during the recruiting process. I don't like Patterson, but he is a very experienced coach who has seen it all and it seems the Mayfield family (father in particular) rubbed him the wrong way.

https://247sports.com/Bolt/Gary-Patterson-disputes-Mayfield-story-calls-his-dad-arrogant-42344581/

 

[HeHasRosen]

Fair enough Rosen Fan. And may say I was joking (honestly) a little yesterday when I told you to be quiet sir. It felt like the right moment for a post like that to get a laugh or two... no harm intended... To your credit, you fired back at me appropriately, and I got a good laugh from your post. It was well done.

So let me go on record as saying Lincoln is the poop, and OU is incredibly fortunate to have him. We won't win another natty though, until we do something about our defense. Still waiting for LR to figure that part out.

Anyway, Riley does deserve a fair amount of credit for both Mayfield's and Murray's progress as QBs. Which, I think is another point for drafting Murray. He has benefited from excellent coaching at the college level, and he'll carry many of these lessons with him to the NFL.

Finally, I'm hopeful, perhaps even optimistic, that Riley will produce a Heisman hat-trick with Hurts in the upcoming season.

How is that sir?

And yes, you're right, I'm exceptionally biased towards OU. I will cop to being a homer.

But it pisses me off HeHasRosen, when people unnecessarily slander Mayfield and Murray.

Hey no harm no foul. Apologies on the vulgar comment. Wasn't quite sure what your problem was with me. Its all in good fun my friend . Debate ya later

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Fine. I think we've both made our point. Nobody disagrees that Mayfield has acted like an ass at times. Certainly I don't.

As for Patterson and KK and the Mayfields, experience tells me that probably all parties probably bear some responsibility for those relationships going bad. No party is completely innocent.

All I'm asking for sir, is that you acknowledge that Mayfield did not give up under adverse circumstances (whether or not they were self-inflicted).

That he persevered in admirable fashion, and achieved way above the level that pretty much the whole world told him to accept.

He went from a HS QB nobody wanted, and fought and scratched his way to becoming the #1 pick in NFL draft. To me, it's kind of an inspiring story. Yes there was some crotch grabbing and other adolescent behavior along the way. But you never heard anything bad from his teammates. His teammates never called him "entitled" or an "***hole". In fact, by all accounts, his teammates loved him. To me, that counts for something.

DRM08, all I"m saying is that I don't think he belongs in the "sack of ****" category. "douchebag"? maybe. But not "sack of ****". No sir. He's a better human being than that.

Again, if you disagree, that's fine, and I'll give you the last word if you want it.