How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[JCSunsfan]

I like Markkanen but I wonder how the Suns would use him. He is really a stretch 4. Perhaps he could back up Chriss. He is an excellent shooter at 7 feet and mobile.

I don't think Markkanen is strong enough to play center. Also he doesn't rebound well or block shots. IMO, Bender has a better chance to play center down the road. He seems to have the better frame for it.

All that said, I believe in drafting BPA. If the Suns could get another pick in the top 10 they could do worse. However, if the Suns get another pick in the top 10 I'm intrigued by Zach Collins as a center candidate.

However, the Suns might be able to draft a capable center at #32.

Nothing wrong with having several 7 footers who have ball skills and can shoot the three. We just need rebounders.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nothing wrong with having several 7 footers who have ball skills and can shoot the three. We just need rebounders.

The more shooters the better especially those who are 7 foot and mobile. If the Suns should fall to #5, I like Markkanen over Tatum if that is the choice.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Isn't 19 an adult? In America, isn't everyone considered an adult once they turn 18? Of course you still can't buy alcohol or tobacco til 21 but in terms of legal adult age, I believe its 18.

This is a dumb post

 

[AzStevenCal]

The past 2 seasons I found myself in love with the draft class in December and seriously questioning it by draft day. In each case I found myself looking forward more to the next season's draft class and that's where I am again. I look at this year's group and all I see are flaws and question marks.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is a dumb post

Ok if you don't consider 18 to be an adult then what age do you consider someone an adult at?

I'm not mocking you, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[sunsfan88]

The past 2 seasons I found myself in love with the draft class in December and seriously questioning it by draft day. In each case I found myself looking forward more to the next season's draft class and that's where I am again. I look at this year's group and all I see are flaws and question marks.

I don't disagree with you and I've found it funny how many experts think this is one of the best draft classes ever.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok if you don't consider 18 to be an adult then what age do you consider someone an adult at?

I'm not mocking you, I'm genuinely curious.

There's a difference between being a legal adult and having acquired enough life experience to fully mature. I think it's a different continuum for each individual, depending on their individual facts and circumstances.

But regardless the maturity and decisionmaking ability of an 18 year old compared to a 26 year old, and oftentimes even a 23 year old can be night and day. Legal thresholds are just semi-arbitrary brightline rules upon which laws are dependent, but they are a terrible arbiter of who is really capable of making good life decisions.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The past 2 seasons I found myself in love with the draft class in December and seriously questioning it by draft day. In each case I found myself looking forward more to the next season's draft class and that's where I am again. I look at this year's group and all I see are flaws and question marks.

I found myself in the same position. I chalk it up to overanalyzation. We've known we were going to suck for a long time. As a result we've been watching, exploring the top players for months. In so doing we've picked them apart pretty completely. Rarely is a college prospect going to be flawless so there's always something to pick apart. We've done it to death. And yet still the pundits agree this is a great draft. They do annually what we've this year in picking apart the prospects. If they say it's a great draft, they have more experience and better comparative perspective imo, so I'll believe them.

 

[Russ Smith]

His father as a whole has done things that we can't just brush over. For example, he constantly belittled, humiliated and embarrassed Lonzo's high school coach. I'm not saying that he would do that in the NBA too but that's still alarming. Lavar basically got that coach fired at the end. And then Lavar never let his owns sons see their mom when she was in the hospital because he thought that would distract them from basketball. That shows this guy has zero clue on what priorities are in life.

I don't have anything against any of his kids but because I know that he's trying to live through his kids and use their spotlight for his own selfish reasons, I dont think I can ever root for his kids to be successful.

The first coach left to "retire" and then took a new coaching job in So Cal so he clearly wanted away from Lavar. the replacement Gilling was more complex, he was a sub teacher and he only got the job because Lavar pushed him on the school and had enough clout to do so. Then the coach tried to coach instead of do what lavar told him to do, and Lavar pulled his support. Chino hills then hired a full time teacher, the story out there that Lavar got him fired is only partly true, he got replaced because he wasn't a full time teacher and school policy gives priority to full time over part time for coaching positions.

Love's dad was much worse in HS, he actually handed out bumper stickers about the coach in HS criticizing him because he was mad about his handling of Kevin.

Lavar is a pain in the neck but I don't think that means Lonzo will be.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the thing most important thing when analyzing players is not get caught up in their weaknesses but rather see what strengths that will carryover to the NBA.

For some reason this morning Enes Kanter comes to mind. Everyone seemed to criticize him for his lack of defense but he can score. Markkanen has question marks but he should always be a good shooting big man. I think Fox will always be a PG that can play defense. Lonzo should always be a good passing PG. Josh Jackson should always be a good defensive SF with height. And on it goes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The first coach left to "retire" and then took a new coaching job in So Cal so he clearly wanted away from Lavar. the replacement Gilling was more complex, he was a sub teacher and he only got the job because Lavar pushed him on the school and had enough clout to do so. Then the coach tried to coach instead of do what lavar told him to do, and Lavar pulled his support. Chino hills then hired a full time teacher, the story out there that Lavar got him fired is only partly true, he got replaced because he wasn't a full time teacher and school policy gives priority to full time over part time for coaching positions.

Love's dad was much worse in HS, he actually handed out bumper stickers about the coach in HS criticizing him because he was mad about his handling of Kevin.

Lavar is a pain in the neck but I don't think that means Lonzo will be.

The stories I heard on local radio and the (Andrew Joseph) story I read at USATODAY are far worse than any of the stories I heard about Love's high school days. I've never heard of this kind of behavior and sabotage before, are you simply discounting those tales?

I think you're allowing your attachment to UCLA influence you here by suggesting Lavar wasn't the root cause of his firing. Stephan's firing was blazed in permanent ink long before he was actually fired and it clearly was linked directly to the December break between Ball senior and the coach.

IMO, Lavar is far more than a pain in the neck and I pity the team that convinces themselves that he won't have the opportunity to cause a problem when his son hits the pros (unless it's the Lakers, they'll have less risk and I have zero pity for them anyway). I'm still a fan of the way Lonzo plays but questions over how he'll adapt to the differences in the NBA game and the concern over the influence and interference of Lavar makes him too big of a risk AFAIC.

 

[Russ Smith]

The stories I heard on local radio and the (Andrew Joseph) story I read at USATODAY are far worse than any of the stories I heard about Love's high school days. I've never heard of this kind of behavior and sabotage before, are you simply discounting those tales?

I think you're allowing your attachment to UCLA influence you here by suggesting Lavar wasn't the root cause of his firing. Stephan's firing was blazed in permanent ink long before he was actually fired and it clearly was linked directly to the December break between Ball senior and the coach.

IMO, Lavar is far more than a pain in the neck and I pity the team that convinces themselves that he won't have the opportunity to cause a problem when his son hits the pros (unless it's the Lakers, they'll have less risk and I have zero pity for them anyway). I'm still a fan of the way Lonzo plays but questions over how he'll adapt to the differences in the NBA game and the concern over the influence and interference of Lavar makes him too big of a risk AFAIC.

I actually think it's quite possible neither Gelo or Melo ever play for UCLA, I don't think Melo will. So I'm not really too worried about the UCLA part of it.

The stuff about the substitute teacher part comes directly from a guy who posts on BRO and has for years. He lives close to Chino Hills Highschool and says it's well known they have had incredible turnover in athletic coaches there in many sports because of the part time vs full time teacher policy. They apparently have had a hard time getting and keeping full time teachers who also want to coach, so they hire coaches who are part time teachers and that's how Gilling got his job. He actually used to train with Lavar when he was younger, his first HS coaching job ever, was coaching the defending mythical national champs Chino this past year.

They've apparently had like 5 baseball coaches in the last 8 years and similar turnover in other areas. Baik the first basketball coach had by far the longest tenure of any coach there when he left, and again he CLEARLY left to get away from Lavar.

Love played for a coach named Mark Shoff in HS, he got benched for a game because he'd missed a practice or something like that, and I'll post the link to the whole story but he actually tried to get a court order barring the coach from talking to his son!

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-3392-stan-love.html


I think that was worse than anything Lavar has done.

A lesser known "incident" with Stan Love involved a kid named Clint Chapman who was a player in oregon the same time Love was there. Chapman was a highly rated Center and he verballed to UCLA and Ben Howland but it hadn't been announced yet. Love hadn't committed yet but effectively everyone knew he was going to UCLA. Stan Love was furious he didn't want another C in the recruiting class, and he didn't want another player from Oregon. So Stan Love reportedly told Ben Howland if you take Clint Chapman, Kevin is going to North Carolina not UCLA. Chapman even offered to redshirt as a freshman he just wanted to spend the year practicing against Love to improve himself, but Stan Love was insistent and Howland pulled the offer. Chapman went to Texas and told the story to the media before UCLA played Texas. We have a guy on BRO who was Chapman's AAU coach, he told me the whole story months before Chapman told it to the newspapers, so I had heard it but didn't know if it was true or not until Chapman confirmed it. Howland refused to comment on it, tough situation Love was so good you basically had to take whatever the dad dished out.

It's never been confirmed but lots of insiders will tell you the reason Kyle Singler went to Duke and not UCLA was Stan Love too, he didn't want another player from Oregon in the same recruiting class he and Singlers' dad apparently clashed over it and eventually they just gave up and went to Duke.

Lavar is a pain in the neck but at least so far IMO he has not been nearly as difficult as Stan Love was.

 

[AzStevenCal]

^^Yeah, I remember that story, I don't see how it comes anywhere close to what Lavar has done. Stan is a real piece of work but the damage he did was on a minor league level compared to what Lavar pulled IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

^^Yeah, I remember that story, I don't see how it comes anywhere close to what Lavar has done. Stan is a real piece of work but the damage he did was on a minor league level compared to what Lavar pulled IMO.

It depends, I think Lavar has done more harm to Lonzo's "status" than Stan did to Kevin but that's largely just access. With Twitter and Social media and the state of ESPN right now Lavar basically can do or say whatever he wants and it's blasted all over.

It was well known Stan was hyper critical of Howland the whole year Kevin was there, but if you weren't a UCLA fan you didn't hear much because ESPN wasn't interviewing him every day.

So I think Lonzo's reputation has been harmed some by Lavar and that's worse than what Stan did to Kevin.

What Stan did to other people like the HS coach, and Chapman and Singler etc to me was much worse. If you remember the game Kevin played at Oregon for UCLA, the fans were unreal, they were on Kevin the whole game it was so bad even the Oregon coaches apologized after the game for some of the signs and things being chanted. Much of that was directed at Stan Love because Oregon fans blamed him for the fact that Love, Chapman and Singler were all from Oregon and all went out of state.

The other thing of course with Lavar is he has THREE sons so his 15 minutes of fame could be much longer than 15 minutes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure that Stan isn't a worse human being, I just think Lavar is and has been far more disruptive and will continue to be a presence in Lonzo's life going forward. I'm neither a Chino Hills fan nor a UCLA fan but since I'm only about 35 miles from Chino Hills and another 50 or so from UCLA, as a basketball fan I hear a lot about both of them on local sports radio. I'm not looking forward to Lavar's continued time in the spotlight, however long it lasts.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not sure that Stan isn't a worse human being, I just think Lavar is and has been far more disruptive and will continue to be a presence in Lonzo's life going forward. I'm neither a Chino Hills fan nor a UCLA fan but since I'm only about 35 miles from Chino Hills and another 50 or so from UCLA, as a basketball fan I hear a lot about both of them on local sports radio. I'm not looking forward to Lavar's continued time in the spotlight, however long it lasts.

There's lots of rumors that Melo is going to transfer to a new school and one of those rumors involves Fairfax where Coach Baik went. That's dependent on the first part which is if Lonzo gets drafted by the Lakers, he'll move the family closer to LA, and then Melo will attend Fairfax.

Convoluted.

 

[Russ Smith]

Oh Lavar just stop talking to the media.

Today he apparently told a radio show in LA that "I don't need no advice from Kobe Bryant" when asked if he thought Lonzo would take Kobe up on his public offer to help any young player who asked for his advice.

What made it worse is that Lavar said it would be ok for him to listen to Kobe during practice, which again of course creates the notion that Lavar is saying Lonzo is going to be a Laker.

He just can't stay out of his own way and unfortunately it's going to be Lonzo that has to deal with the fallout.

 

[Ronin]

David Aldridge's Big Board 2017: Centers
Rank | Name | School/Team | Class/Age | HT | WT > Projected

1. Jarrett Allen | Texas | Freshman | 6-10 ¼ | 234 | Late Lottery/Mid first round

2. Justin Patton | Creighton | Freshman | 6-11 ¼ | 229 | Mid/late first round

3. Caleb Swanigan | Purdue | Junior | 6-8 ½ | 246 | Mid/late first round

4. Ike Anigbogu | UCLA | Freshman | 6-9 ¾ | 252 | Late first round

5. Bam Adebayo | Kentucky | Freshman | 6-9 ¾ | 243 | Late first round

6. Thomas Bryant | Indiana | Sophomore | 6-10 ¾ | 248 | Late first round/Early second round

7. Tony Bradley | North Carolina | Freshman | 6-10 ¾ | 249 | Early second round

8. Omer Yurtseven | NC State | Freshman | 6-11 ¾ | 248 | Second round

9. Jonathan Jeanne | SLUC Nancy | 19 | 7-2 | 207 | Second round

10. Thomas Welsh | UCLA | Junior | 7-0 ½ | 254 | Second round

SLEEPERS: Moses Kingsley, 6-10, 230, Arkansas; Alpha Kaba (21), 6-10, 226, Mega Leks; Kennedy Meeks, 6-10¼ , 270, North Carolina.

SOME SCOUTS LIKE: Eric Mika (JR), 6-9 ¾, 233, Brigham Young

http://www.nba.com/da-big-board-centers-2017-draft?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf78912880&sf78912880=1

 

[elindholm]

David Aldridge's Big Board 2017: Centers

Where's Jared Jeffries on that list?