How long does it take for a team "most" of the time to know if their draft pick is good?

cardsunsfan

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Posts
4,735
Reaction score
162
Location
Arizona
I think a lot of time it can be through training camp. I remember when we drafted Boldin... they couldn't wait to quietly unveil him during the first game. After all the tape they review, I think by the first game the teams have a much better understanding of the players. It sometimes amazes me with all the money that is put into researching these guys a lot of times it is still a crap shoot..
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,798
Reaction score
9,618
Location
milan-italy
I think a lot of time it can be through training camp. I remember when we drafted Boldin... they couldn't wait to quietly unveil him during the first game. After all the tape they review, I think by the first game the teams have a much better understanding of the players. It sometimes amazes me with all the money that is put into researching these guys a lot of times it is still a crap shoot..

First stretch of the regular season
Don't put much confidence on players killing it at practIce, like Nkemdiche
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,989
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
When the pads come on which is in training camp. Of course some players develop more slowly than others and it takes time to adjust to the much faster game in the NFL. But the NFL is a physical league and putting on the pads separates the men from the boys.
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
11,917
Reaction score
26,027
Location
Orlando, FL
This depends on the position. Normally the front 7 on defense at least flash in the first 6 games unless learning a new position. Running back is early first year. WRs & QBs can take 2 years and occasionally even 3. Safeties are usually the end of year one. CBs can take 2-3 years.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,342
Reaction score
40,460
Location
Colorado
Good is pretty subjective. You know that a guy an play in the league pretty early. How they compete, how they learn, and what their athleticism looks like vs NFL competition is normally quick to show out. After that, it is more about how they evolve once the league gets tape on them and how they handle idle time with money after the first year.

It's like Justin Bethel. You could tell early on that his athleticism was NFL level and he could have a role in the league. However, you could also see that he was going to need a lot of work in order for him to fulfill a greater role.
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,266
Reaction score
15,338
Location
Charlotte
It depends on the player.

Some are impact players from day 1, some are solid starters as rookies, some ride the bench, some are total busts, etc.
 
OP
OP
C

cardsunsfan

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Posts
4,735
Reaction score
162
Location
Arizona
I think there are late bloomers but when I think about the past players it's amazing with all the money they invest into scouting how often they have no idea how its going to work out and a lot of guys you knowing fairly quickly one way or the other..
 

ARZCardinals

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Posts
4,151
Reaction score
699
Location
Behind you
Agreed it’s fairly quick
By week 3 you KNOW
You can never buy into training camp hype....they see the same guys and the same opponents every day...and no one is out to pop their head off.
It’s not till live action week 3 you really know what u got...but you’ll have a solid idea who they are...as they’re still fresh and not banged up yet. If they can’t play by then...he’s a bust.
Funny how two people here said something just to say nothing
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Players don't reach their peak years til 27 so even after 2 years you are taking your best guess at the outcome.

All you can do after a year is try to guess the most likely pitcoou
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,395
Reaction score
29,778
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Players don't reach their peak years til 27 so even after 2 years you are taking your best guess at the outcome.

All you can do after a year is try to guess the most likely pitcoou

Nonsense. There are a handful of guys who were garbage until their contract year and ended up being pro bowlers on their second contract, but they’re few, far between, and often identifiable in their second or third season.

In general, you can define the trajectory of a player in their second season.
 

Timm Rosenbach

Bye Bye DJ
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Posts
6,525
Reaction score
4,478
Location
Tucson
Players don't reach their peak years til 27 so even after 2 years you are taking your best guess at the outcome.

All you can do after a year is try to guess the most likely pitcoou

Except halfback. You know what you’ve got immediately. Let’s hope the coaching staff puts David Johnson to use this year because he is in his prime
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Nonsense. There are a handful of guys who were garbage until their contract year and ended up being pro bowlers on their second contract, but they’re few, far between, and often identifiable in their second or third season.

In general, you can define the trajectory of a player in their second season.

You are welcome to explore the wonderful world of analytics on your own.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Except halfback. You know what you’ve got immediately. Let’s hope the coaching staff puts David Johnson to use this year because he is in his prime

You are correct that RB is an outlier here (though QB will be soon in regards to age) but a lot of that ties more to carries than age
 

Jim Otis

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Posts
1,262
Reaction score
187
Location
Mississippi
Depends so much on what the head coach see's in a player , I give you 1981 49ers , Bill Walsh selects three DB Rookies in the Backfields , goes 13 and 3 reg. season and on to Super Bowl win. Rooks play all 19 games . So much depends on how much HC can inspire players , I'll go on record , I wanted Lincoln Riley , not Double K ,but I have D-KK and will support him every week just like I supported the HCs and Jim Hart - Jim Otis - Terry Metcalf and what I thought was a tremendous O-Line . It will suit me to take Murray with the first pick !!!
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,395
Reaction score
29,778
Location
Gilbert, AZ
You are welcome to explore the wonderful world of analytics on your own.
It’s embarrassing that a moderator is allowed to be so condescending. And it’s shocking that you think that I of all people need to be introduced to analytics.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
I'd say it would take about 2- minutes after the pick for the GM or HC to grab a mike and confide that "we didn't think he'd be there we got him and are excited about the pick."
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
It’s embarrassing that a moderator is allowed to be so condescending. And it’s shocking that you think that I of all people need to be introduced to analytics.

It wasn't an attempt to be condescending but as you took it that way I offer my apologies.

It just seemed like you didn't know that in general athletes peak at age 27 and I was trying to be helpful. Obviously the way I responded allowed you to take it in a manner I didn't intend. I will work to do better in the future.

You should know with all honesty I have nothing but respect for your opinion and the value you bring to this board. I was one of the vocal ones for your return.
 
Last edited:

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,395
Reaction score
29,778
Location
Gilbert, AZ
It wasn't an attempt to be condescending but as you took it that way I offer my apologies.

It just seemed like you didn't know that in general athletes peak at age 27 and I was trying to be helpful. Obviously the way I responded allowed you to take it in a manner I didn't intend. I will work to do better in the future.

You should know with all honesty I have nothing but respect for your opinion and the value you bring to this board. I was one of the vocal ones for your return.

Apology accepted. Thanks for being so generous.

FWIW, here's what FO says about when football players begin to decline:

Football Outsiders annual said:
Running backs usually decline after age 28, tight ends after age 29, wide receivers after age 30, and quarterbacks after age 32.
This research was originally done by Doug Drinen (editor of pro-football-reference.com) in 2000. In recent years, a few players have had huge seasons above these general age limits, but the peak ages Drinen found a few years ago still apply to the majority of players.

As for “non-skill players,” research we did in 2007 for ESPN The Magazine suggested that defensive ends and defensive backs generally begin to decline after age 29, linebackers and offensive linemen after age 30, and defensive tackles after age 31. However, because we still have so few statistics to use to study linemen and defensive players, this research should not be considered definitive.

I agree that some athletes don't hit their peak until their second contract (the NBA is perverse in drafting 19 years olds and not knowing whether they'll be good for 5+ years). But I don't think that really answers the question posed by the OP. The "peak" for an NFL player is the intersection between their knowledge of the game (which increases over time) and the ability of their body (which decreases over time). I'd argue that football is unique in that the physical damage inflicted daily probably inhibits the overall outcome for most players.

Think of it as a leaky bucket — the player's body might be reaching peak performance by age 24 or 27, but that performance is continually being degraded by the sport they're playing.

Another way to think about it is look at BYU: you'd think their teams being 2+ years older would give them an advantage, but more talented athletes at the football factory schools are still able to outperform.

I think that teams generally have a good idea whether they have a dependable player during their rookie season. For example, I think it was clear very quickly that Haason Reddick was going to be a problematic draft choice, which is why, IIRC, he was playing in the 4th quarter of the 4th preseason game in his rookie year. Similar things happened with Bryant Johnson, Michael Floyd, Brandon Williams, etc.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Good info there.

I was thinking specifically Rosen here. We probably won't really know what we have for 3 years. I can say "This is likely" but likely isn't gospel obviously
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,028
Reaction score
58,326
I'd say it would take about 2- minutes after the pick for the GM or HC to grab a mike and confide that "we didn't think he'd be there we got him and are excited about the pick."

Likewise the endorsement the pick receives by posters after the selection. :wink2:
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
553,678
Posts
5,410,690
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top