How Long Should #19's Leash Be?

[Darkside]

I think you go with Skelton all 16 games, regardless of record, and as long as you see improvement. As Duckjake said:

Last season on attempts 21-30 he had a 60.7% completion rate and a QB rating of 93.2 and 5TD to 3 INT. Which makes it really hard to tell if he's gotten any better when he only had about 6 attempts per game this pre season.

Skelton has had everything going against him if you think about it. Came from a small school where he didn't run a complicated offense and didn't see complicated defenses. He received basically no QB coaching from that school. Strike one. Hasn't had any first string coaching in the pro's yet. Strike two. Had an offseason with no work because of the lockout. Strike three. Had to compete against a guy making millions of dollars and a guy who the coach had already said wanted to win the job.

That's a lot of strikes, and for him to overcome all that to start for our team is phenomenal. He's a rock. Physically, he's imposing. To overcome all of that mentally is challenging and very very difficult, but he was able to do it. Mentally he's more solid than any QB we've had here since Kurt Warner. And I've said this before, even though I wanted Kolb to do well--Skelton is a killer. Just like Kurt. Skelton wants to destroy defenses.

You let him start all 16 games, and you tell him that, so that instead of looking over his shoulder (like he did last year--he knew that job wasn't his) he can start focusing on the future and improving his game. He's got the mental part down, and we need him to focus 100% of his energy on improving.

(edit: And I forgot to add: Whis saying it was a close competition is rubbish. If it's anything nearing close you go with the guy you paid millions of dollars to. If Kolb looked bad to us, imagine how he looked on coaches film)

 

[Phrazbit]

That would be ignoring the lessons from the DA experiment.

The lesson to be learned from DA is "dont sign the worst QB in football and then name him starter".

 

[oaken1]

my guess is the leash should be three games.....if he stinks it up for three straight games, then sit him for a bit so he can digest what he has learned.

 

[bg7brd]

I think you go with Skelton all 16 games, regardless of record, and as long as you see improvement. As Duckjake said:

Skelton has had everything going against him if you think about it. Came from a small school where he didn't run a complicated offense and didn't see complicated defenses. He received basically no QB coaching from that school. Strike one. Hasn't had any first string coaching in the pro's yet. Strike two. Had an offseason with no work because of the lockout. Strike three. Had to compete against a guy making millions of dollars and a guy who the coach had already said wanted to win the job.

That's a lot of strikes, and for him to overcome all that to start for our team is phenomenal. He's a rock. Physically, he's imposing. To overcome all of that mentally is challenging and very very difficult, but he was able to do it. Mentally he's more solid than any QB we've had here since Kurt Warner. And I've said this before, even though I wanted Kolb to do well--Skelton is a killer. Just like Kurt. Skelton wants to destroy defenses.

You let him start all 16 games, and you tell him that, so that instead of looking over his shoulder (like he did last year--he knew that job wasn't his) he can start focusing on the future and improving his game. He's got the mental part down, and we need him to focus 100% of his energy on improving.

(edit: And I forgot to add: Whis saying it was a close competition is rubbish. If it's anything nearing close you go with the guy you paid millions of dollars to. If Kolb looked bad to us, imagine how he looked on coaches film)

I agree. Let the young guy develope.

 

[desertdawg]

I hope Skelton doesn't suck.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

No leash. The smart bet is to ride Skelton for the entire season. This is the year to see if we have a QB that can become 'the guy'. Give him plenty of time to prove it or to show that he can't become 'the guy'. That way, you either have a QB you want starting for the coming seasons or, if the team absolutely tanks, you're in position to draft one. What we shouldn't do, as awful as it sounds, is to try to salvage a 6 or 8 win season. All that does is get us out of contention for a top QB.

Give Skelton the year. He'll either grab the job and keep it for years to come, or we'll be in a position to go out and get the guy who (we hope) can.

Right.

Kolb will never be the guy so its useless putting him in. He just doesnt have the intangibles.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I will never, ever, submit to the euphoria of seeing my team tank for a draft pick. Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one and this team has too much talent. I am 119% behind Skelton but if need arises, then maybe Kolb can come in there and help us. I'm a Cardinal fan, and reaching the playoffs, the chance of trying to reach the playoff is why I tune in. I find no enjoyment of wasting a year of my precious life watching a game where the objective is to lose. Kick butt Big John and if Kolb has to come in, then he has my full support. I have watched this team for over three decades, and this is more talent than 90% of those horrid years...you try and win with whatever you can do.

 

[Stout]

I will never, ever, submit to the euphoria of seeing my team tank for a draft pick. Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one and this team has too much talent. I am 119% behind Skelton but if need arises, then maybe Kolb can come in there and help us. I'm a Cardinal fan, and reaching the playoffs, the chance of trying to reach the playoff is why I tune in. I find no enjoyment of wasting a year of my precious life watching a game where the objective is to lose. Kick butt Big John and if Kolb has to come in, then he has my full support. I have watched this team for over three decades, and this is more talent than 90% of those horrid years...you try and win with whatever you can do.

It isn't about tanking the season. That is NOT what I'm advocating. It's about giving Skelton plenty of time to see what you have, and if he will get better. That doesn't happen in 3 or 4 games, like some here would have you believe. That takes a lot of time, and even if we somehow figure that out further down the line in the season, the season will have been lost by then. Like last season, it would be too late to save the season and make the playoffs.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It isn't about tanking the season. That is NOT what I'm advocating. It's about giving Skelton plenty of time to see what you have, and if he will get better. That doesn't happen in 3 or 4 games, like some here would have you believe. That takes a lot of time, and even if we somehow figure that out further down the line in the season, the season will have been lost by then. Like last season, it would be too late to save the season and make the playoffs.

No!

No, No, NO Stout!

Skelton gets six games at the most! We will know what we have in #19 at that point!

If we're 2-4 and the defense and ST are playing well, but John is playing poorly, he's getting the hook!

Please be reasonable sir!

 

[Catfish]

Sorry Warrior, but at this point, I believe that Skelton's leash should be at least as long as Whisenhunt's is. The situation with our QB, (ever since Whiz' arrival), has been due solely to one Coach Ken Whisenhunt, and therefore his choice for QB should have a time frame as long as his is.

 

[Stout]

No!

No, No, NO Stout!

Skelton gets six games at the most! We will know what we have in #19 at that point!

If we're 2-4 and the defense and ST are playing well, but John is playing poorly, he's getting the hook!

Please be reasonable sir!

Why? Kolb is far worse than Skelton--he won't take us to the playoffs? And this is Skelton's first shot, as a young QB from a nothing program, to prepare for and begin the season as the starter. Just because he's playing poorly after 6 games doesn't mean he'll play poorly all season. He's a young QB; it takes time and growing pains. Hell, with a lot of the young QBs that succeeded, throughout the history of the league, it took several years of growing pains. It makes no sense not to put our season behind him at this point, succeed or fail, win or lose. We won't make the playoffs with Kolb, and we sure in the heck won't win a title with him.

 

[WildBB]

Sorry Warrior, but at this point, I believe that Skelton's leash should be at least as long as Whisenhunt's is. The situation with our QB, (ever since Whiz' arrival), has been due solely to one Coach Ken Whisenhunt, and therefore his choice for QB should have a time frame as long as his is.

Could be so.With Skelton however he may get a mulligan. Kolb was an all around system gaff - FO down.

Anyway as far as a quick leash goes - I think we'll be seeing some of Kolb in the hurry up - right from the get go, much like when Warner ran it opposite Leinart. We will be seeing both of them like it or not. Being named starter doesn't mean as much as some think here, mtl.

Some here have also mentioned Eli Manning as a model for sticking with someone over a long period until they develop. Well that doesn't always work out either. Manning came from a bigger program, had the pedigree and mental makeup to endure in the gotham market. He took over as a rookie for Warner and it took him 3.5 seasons before he became anything more than an average QB in the League.
http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/careerstats

It'll be interesting to see how the coaches handle two QB's with plenty of questions. It all depends on W's though. Winning ugly could be enough. Losing ugly won't be enough to guarantee anybody anything.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Could be so.With Skelton however he may get a mulligan. Kolb was an all around system gaff - FO down.

Anyway as far as a quick leash goes - I think we'll be seeing some of Kolb in the hurry up - right from the get go, much like when Warner ran it opposite Leinart. We will be seeing both of them like it or not. Being named starter doesn't mean as much as some think here, mtl.

Some here have also mentioned Eli Manning as a model for sticking with someone over a long period until they develop. Well that doesn't always work out either. Manning came from a bigger program, had the pedigree and mental makeup to endure in the gotham market. He took over as a rookie for Warner and it took him 3.5 seasons before he became anything more than an average QB in the League.
http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/careerstats

It'll be interesting to see how the coaches handle two QB's with plenty of questions. It all depends on W's though. Winning ugly could be enough. Losing ugly won't be enough to guarantee anybody anything.

IMO: Skelton will get the nod as long as he protects the ball.

Multiple turnovers leading to loss, week after week and he sits.

Some fans may want a leash from here to the moon, but, I doubt, that coaches and players are willing to see their efforts sacrificed in futility week after week.

I'm with John until I'm no longer with John... and then give me KK because it's as the coach keeps repeating... "who gives us the best chance of winning".

That judgement and responsibility falls to Whiz and Co. - not the fans.

 

[desertdawg]

It isn't about tanking the season. That is NOT what I'm advocating. It's about giving Skelton plenty of time to see what you have, and if he will get better. That doesn't happen in 3 or 4 games, like some here would have you believe. That takes a lot of time, and even if we somehow figure that out further down the line in the season, the season will have been lost by then. Like last season, it would be too late to save the season and make the playoffs.

 

[Bodha]

Very long.

The worst thing we can do is flip flop between QBs all season.

Let him take his lumps, for 16 straight weeks if need be. You cant grow from a poor showing if you are pulled from the lineup.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Why? Kolb is far worse than Skelton--he won't take us to the playoffs? And this is Skelton's first shot, as a young QB from a nothing program, to prepare for and begin the season as the starter. Just because he's playing poorly after 6 games doesn't mean he'll play poorly all season. He's a young QB; it takes time and growing pains. Hell, with a lot of the young QBs that succeeded, throughout the history of the league, it took several years of growing pains. It makes no sense not to put our season behind him at this point, succeed or fail, win or lose. We won't make the playoffs with Kolb, and we sure in the heck won't win a title with him.

Really? What was each QB's respective rating during the current preseason?

See Stout, I think you know that they were approximatley equal, and you're just yanking my chain.

I get the idea that Skelton may give us the chance to win at this point. But the preason stats bear out the fact that he does not appear to have improved vs. last year.

With that said, I really hope he proves me dead wrong, and he throws for 5 TDs no INTs, and 500 yards vs the hags. That would be awesome.

Let's just agree to disagree on the leash idea.

Have a good week man! Happy labor day!

 

[Phrazbit]

The Kolb era is dead. He is awful, he is injury prone, his contract is insane. He wont be here next year. Skelton is a young QB who is going to make mistakes and you have to let him ride out those mistakes. There is no point in benching him for a player who you cant win with him. If at some point later in the year Skelton has devolved to a point that he does not seem salvageable then you stick Lindley out there and see what you've got. There is no point in throwing Kolb in. He will not make us a playoff team, he does not have a future on this team. Kolb was a huge mistake and wasting more snaps and development on him only deepens that mistake.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The Kolb era is dead. He is awful, he is injury prone, his contract is insane. He wont be here next year. Skelton is a young QB who is going to make mistakes and you have to let him ride out those mistakes. There is no point in benching him for a player who you cant win with him. If at some point later in the year Skelton has devolved to a point that he does not seem salvageable then you stick Lindley out there and see what you've got. There is no point in throwing Kolb in. He will not make us a playoff team, he does not have a future on this team. Kolb was a huge mistake and wasting more snaps and development on him only deepens that mistake.

Will you just be honest and tell us why you hate Kolb so much?

I'm not saying your a bad person in general Phrazbit, but you're viewpoint on Kolb goes way, way beyond "unreasonable", and into "unhealthy fixiation" territory.

I've been on the board for like ten years now, and I've seen guys like you come and go. It's is really, really obvious that you have something personal against him, and we would all like to know what it is. Come on man. At least give us a hint.

 

[Darkside]

We don't all want to know. I don't actually care at all.

 

[Phrazbit]

Will you just be honest and tell us why you hate Kolb so much?

I'm not saying your a bad person in general Phrazbit, but you're viewpoint on Kolb goes way, way beyond "unreasonable", and into "unhealthy fixiation" territory.

I've been on the board for like ten years now, and I've seen guys like you come and go. It's is really, really obvious that you have something personal against him, and we would all like to know what it is. Come on man. At least give us a hint.

He just freaking suuuuuuucks.

Seriously, what is the point of putting him back out there?

 

[WildBB]

He just freaking suuuuuuucks.

Seriously, what is the point of putting him back out there?

How did you get that avatar anyway....priceless.

 

[Black Jesus]

I think it could get ugly. I like Skelton, but I liked Navarre, and I see a lot of similarities.

Big strong armed quarterback, that occasionally overthrows receivers.. leading to picks by safeties.

That said, I say ride him. He does well, draft and O-lineman.. He does poorly, draft a QB and then picks 2-7 on OL.

Bottom line, our O-line sucks.

 

[Duckjake]

I get the idea that Skelton may give us the chance to win at this point. But the preason stats bear out the fact that he does not appear to have improved vs. last year.

Skelton had 25 pass attempts over 5 games. How could you tell anything from that?

Both Kolb and Skelton were under constant pressure. How could anyone tell anything with that going on.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next 4 weeks. We should be able to go 3-1 with that schedule but with our makeshift dumb scheme, pasthetic offensive line we'll be lucky if we don't go 0-5.

 

[Phrazbit]

How did you get that avatar anyway....priceless.

Hand crafted MS-Paint quality my friend.

 

[187]

We might as well roll with him the entire season. Let him ride out the mistakes and see how he does, Kolb is clearly not the answer, so why waste time with Kolb when it could be spent helping Skelton develop. If he shows promise then we roll with him next season, if he sucks and doesn't learn from his mistakes then we draft a shiny new QB and pray to the football god's he pans out. Then we use the rest of our draft picks on olineman.