How many SG's are better than JJ...?

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I wouldn't. He got a lot of playoff hype that is it.

He is just half a year younger than Joe. He is undersized at the 2 and has almost the same numbers as JJ even for the season when you count in the games when Joe was stuck behind Marbury.

Wade averaged 6 minutes less per game and his and Johnson's production was nearly identical in points, rebounds, assists, and 3 pt % with the exception of FTs where Wade got to the line nearly 100 times more with less opportunity. Dwayne also shot .465 from the field while Johnson shot .430. Wade actually took his team and advanced in the playoffs where he was the best player on the court for many stretches, leading his team in assists and points. Oh, and Wade is a rookie while Johnson has been in the leauge for three years. Honestly it's not even a debate, ask any GM or scout and they'd agree with me.

 

[elindholm]

Doesn’t anyone else find it funny that JJ finally started playing well AFTER his competition had been traded and the expectations for the team to win was nonexistent?

I don't find it funny, but I do find it telling. I made that point several times during the second half of the season and then gave up.

Slinslin, I can't believe you have Redd at "roughly the same level" as Johnson. Redd gets no respect on this board (except from a couple of us who are clued in).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I love Michael Redd. I still say he is one of my 3 favorite players.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

To bad we didnt do that rumored Steph/Penny to Miami trade. I wouldn't mind having Wade and JJ in the backcourt. Wouldn't mind that one bit.

 

[slinslin]

How come Michael Redd has one of the worst +/- stats in the entire league? And the worst on his own team if he is so good?

 

[Joe Mama]

It's really no mystery that Joe Johnson's numbers increased so dramatically when Stephane Marbury left the team. It's also no mystery that his numbers decreased a little bit again when Amare returned and established himself as the main offensive threat. JJ has to have the ball in his hands a lot of the time. He is not a catch and shoot shooting guard. He doesn't have to dominate the ball, but he isn't going to do well as the third or fourth option. That is one of the reasons most of us would probably preferred keeping Shawn Marion if the Suns acquired one of these superstars like Tracy McGrady or Kobe Bryant. Unfortunately Shawn Marion's contract will probably get him moved if they do get one of those players.

This is the same reason Richard Jefferson's numbers went through the roof when Kenyon Martin and Jason Kidd were injured.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

I saw a pretty telling statistic about Marion.

When Marion is on the floor the Suns give up more points than when he is not.

 

[SweetD]

I saw a pretty telling statistic about Marion.

When Marion is on the floor the Suns give up more points than when he is not.

That is becoue the game is over... just kidding I know last year he was one of the leaders in minutes played. I for one wish Marion was a better one-on-one defender.

 

[elindholm]

When Marion is on the floor the Suns give up more points than when he is not.

Well, let's think about that. The Suns were a bad team, so they usually were giving up more points than they were scoring. So what that statistic really says is that the Suns did better in garbage time -- which is virtually the only time Marion sat -- than when the game was being decided.

I'd guess that the same is true for Johnson and Stoudemire, although perhaps less clearly so for Stoudemire, since the Suns often left him on the floor long after the outcome had been decided.

 

[Joe Mama]

When Marion is on the floor the Suns give up more points than when he is not.

Well, let's think about that. The Suns were a bad team, so they usually were giving up more points than they were scoring. So what that statistic really says is that the Suns did better in garbage time -- which is virtually the only time Marion sat -- than when the game was being decided.

I'd guess that the same is true for Johnson and Stoudemire, although perhaps less clearly so for Stoudemire, since the Suns often left him on the floor long after the outcome had been decided.

yeah, was that the two minutes he was out during the first half of the game or the two minutes during the second half? If the Phoenix Suns were a winning team, and Shawn Marion played average minutes at statistic might... might hold some water.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Well JJ and Marion have a net-value of -156 and -160 while Amare is +52 in that regard.

I would say the bigger reason is that Amare missed 28 games and in that stretch I would guess the Suns were much worse defensively. Shawn bites on just about every fake anyway.

 

[elindholm]

If you want to consider whether that is a useful statistic to take seriously, look at all the "good players on bad teams" and see how they fare. Chances are most of them won't look good.

So the statistic tells you what you already know: as a group, players on bad teams tend to give up more points than they score. Eureka!

 

[George O'Brien]

Let me understand. Shawn averaged 40 minutes a game in his 79 games. I must not have been paying attention during the big surges they had during those 8 minutes.

BTW, I agree that Marion needs to become a better man defender. I hope Larry Brown works with him on the Olympic team.