how to make this suns team better!

[nashmvp13]

in a league where everyone is constantly trying to get better the suns can be no exception. nash and stoudemire are the premiere players at thier positions. i'm a big johnson fan and absolutely think that he should be re-signed. im sure he wants to stay here and will take a little less then the max in order to keep this team rich with talent. but if the max is available i believe that he is deserving of it. jackson and hunter are cheap and have filled in well off the bench. they should be here next year as well. i agree with the consensus that the full mid level exception should be offered to marshall with max raises. he is the perfect big body off the bench. he can grab boards, play d, shoot the three, and run the floor. nash should return the favor to the suns and go as far as making a recruiting trip to let marshall know that he should be here.

marion and richardson are excellent athletes. they have more well rounded games, they are scrappier, they have more hustle, and they are younger quicker and stronger then most in the league. they play far bigger then their height indicates as well. during the regular season they are stellar teammates and as reliable as anyone else. that said, they both didn't show up in the playoffs when it mattered the most. richardson does not shoot the ball well enough for his job on this squad and his skill set has been reduced so much until he became one demensional. marion can not score in the post, play post d (he intimidates no one coming into the lane), or put a body on the premiere power forwards in the league. they can both prosper better on other squads where they are allowed to play to their strengths. in order for this team to progress they have to go and bring in players who are better suited to fill the roles assigned to them on this phoenix suns squad.

the recent mistake of almost trading richardson for a player who should not be and would not be in the suns starting lineup because of a need for a big man has made me nervous. marion is not the man this team needs at small forward and should not be moved back to that position for a mediocre power forward to step in and be less then stellar. that type of basketball is not what made people around the world fall in love with this team. we should never make a trade like that.

there are three main groups of players at each position. the first group consist of the stars. the second group consist of elite. the third group consists of the talented.
the groups read like so

sg 1 : BRYANT, WADE, ALLEN, GINOBILI, CARTER
sg 2 : REDD, HUGHES, J. RICHARDSON, MAGGETTE, HAMILTON
sg 3 : GORDON, MILLER, CRAWFORD, STACKHOUSE, MOBLEY

sf 1 : MCGRADY, JAMES, PIERCE, STOJAKOVIC, ARTEST
sf 2 : JEFFERSON, KIRILENKO, JAMISON, ROSE, LEWIS
sf 3 : ANTHONY, HILL, SZEZERBIAK, PRINCE, KORVER

pf 1 : DUNCAN, NOWITZKI, GARNETT, ONEAL, WALLACE
pf 2 : GASOL, BRAND, RANDOLPH, OKAFOR, MARTIN
pf 3 : BOSH, CHANDLER, BOOZER, ODOM, MURPHY

c 1 : ONEAL, MING, WALLACE, CAMBY, MILLER
c 2 : ILGAUSKAS, DALEMBERT, BOGUT, CURRY, LAFRENTZ
c 3 : DAMPIER, MAGLOIRE, HAYWOOD, KAMEN, MOHAMMED

i am a huge basketball fan. i watch every game i possibly can. i read hoopshype daily. i can recite back to you every teams roster, who is under what contract and how much money they're making. I can tell you how many years a player has been in the league, what teams he has played for, his stats along with his height and weight.
that said, when i came up with these groups i took into account things such as contribution to team success, how they fill thier roll assigned to them by their team, individual talent such as intangables and versatility, performance under pressure, killer instinct, leadership, team play, conditioning, attitude, potential vs. peek, and whatever else you can think of.

the shooting guards list i stand behind. the small forwards list was hard to do because of the position being so deep so you're more then welcome to add bowen, mason, jones, simmons, and howard to that list. power forward is by far the most dominant position. couple them with the centers and i consider group one of both spots pretty much untouchable, or atleast untouchable to the suns with only marion and richardson to offer. but i'd give marion and richardson for any of the group one power forwards or the top two players at any other position.

the suns are off this list so i remain impartial but nash would be point guard number one obviously (there is no point guard list because for the purpose of this post it is not needed), stoudemire would be center number one (i understand he does not want to play center but he is insane at that position and should stay there unless a better suited big man comes along who should start and cannot play the power forward spot well), and joe johnson would be in the second group of shooting guards. since i am lobbying for a trade of richardson and marion i will not rank them.

we now know what richardson is capable of bringing in off a trade. it is not worth it. MARION, RICHARDSON, BARBOSA, and VOSKUHL should be shopped as a group. our only effective men off the bench were JACKSON and HUNTER so i see no reason to hold on to anyone else. bottom line on barbosa is he is not the back up point guard this team needs, if you're a suns fan i don't think i have to elaborate.

moving these four as a package will allow the suns to obtain the best player possible (with above average second guys) for the worth of this group as a whole.

i've come up with the 8 best scenarios i could of feasable trades to improve the suns. every trade scenario i've come up with consist of a big man (power forward/ center) and a scorer (shooting guard/ small forward). Either the big man is a stud or the scorer is extremely talened. either way the second man in the deal is more then adequate to fill HIS ROLE on this squad (they have to be because you cannot give up marion without getting big man help). money and picks can be tossed around to fine tune things but pretty much all contracts match up or would match up (i understand how pricey this starting five is looking but you have to get the best five you can to start no matter the cost. you'll be right around the luxary mark. you save money on your bench).

so... MARION, RICHARDSON, BARBOSA, VOSKUHL for...

1) GASOL, MILLER, and WELLS-
if they are not willing to part ways with miller, then take WILLIAMS instead (insane point guard tandem). It still works. gasol is insane and if he is available he should be taken by us. miller fills the role better then richardson. he shoots great percentages. he is a complete player who can also create on his own. he would plain just fit better. wells would be huge off the bench. he fits in here just fine. then he can be resigned for the mle next offseason. suns are much, much better if this trade goes through.

2) PIERCE and LAFRENTZ-
a great deal if we can work it. pierce is serious and on a whole other level then richardson. lafrentz is perfect for this team as well. a big who can shoot the three, block shots, play d, rebound, and run the floor. he fills the role better then marion although marion is the better athlete. the suns are much better if this could happen.

3) ALLEN and EVANS-
since both are free agents this may have a strong chance of happening. if you can get allen you take him. evans is tough as nails although he is unrated he is very strong. he is young, he can rebound, and he can play d. this team would be vastly improved.

4) REDD, BOGUT and either MASON, GADZURIC, SMITH, KUKOC, BOOTH in that order-
I figure you ask for the first three. If they say no you ask for them to s and t the fourth. If the deal is still not working you offer to take on the fifth's contract. for redd and bogut it is worth it. if redd refuses to come back it might force the issue as well. huge upgrade over richardson and bogut can play either center or power forward. he is serious. he made my list just from his college ball. once again the suns are better. that applies to all my trade proposals so i'll just stop saying it.

5) DALEMBERT, KORVER, IGUODALA and either JACKSON or MCKIE-
obviuosly you ask for jackson (who could be huge) and push for him but ultimately you take mckie to make this work. korver's game is continuously evolving and becoming more complete. his game is better suited for this team then richardsons. i dont get that nervous feeling watching him drive that i do with richardson. dalembert is going to become one of the best bigs in the league very soon. iguodala may be the deal breaker but he is very quick and talented and could be a huge defensive assit. he is capable of triple doubles.

6) MARTIN, ANTHONY and NAJERA-
this trade also works with CAMBY instead of MARTIN. anthony is an upgrade over richardson. although he does not shot the three as well he is a much better player to have. martin and camby will make this team much better defensively and both provide an inside presence. they bring things to the table that marion does not although marion has a more well rounded game. najera is a bonus as a back up big man and a bench leader. his energy will push his teammates at practice and in games. he is also extremely useful to through out and frustrate the elite power forwards in this league.

7) BOSH, ROSE, and MARSHALL-
this frees up the mle to explore other options. i've already explained why marshall is a great player to have off the bench. bosh and rose are just great players. i find myself saying the same things over and over but bosh can scoe in the post and intimidate as a big man. rose is underrated. he is much better then richardson.he'd be great for the suns.

8) KIRILENKO, HARPRING, and GIRICEK-
unlikey and even so im not sure im sold on it. i think id rather have marion since they do the same thing. i probably wouldn't let marion go for any small forward that isn't at the top, not atleast without a big man involved. theres always boozer and okur but i really dont think any trade with the jazz could help. i'd rather have marion then both of them as well. i'm not really sure why i put the jazz here at all. i'm sorry for wasteing time. i'll add one more to make up for it.

8 (again) STOJAKOVIC, MILLER and THOMAS, SKINNER, or WILLIAMSON-
again unlikely to happen but a no brainer if it came up so i wont talk about it that much. but a stojakovic thomas for marion trade may be interesting. then i guess you can move rich and thomas for a better big in some sort of three team swing but i wont get into that either.

all the above mentioned scenarios are not just fabrications out of thin air. these teams are said to be looking to make moves and have pieces we should except if they are on the table. all line-ups are in my mind without a doubt championship combinations with a serious shot at a 70 win season.

i dont mention BRAND, RANDOLPH or OKAFOR for several reasons. They are the cornerstones of their individual franchises and none of their teams would move them for MARION. none of them are quick enough for this offense anyway. i would still trade marion for all three but a possibility of that seems very unlikely. CHANDLER, CURRY, and GORDEN are not going anywhere. the bulls have made that perfectly clear. ILGAUSKAS is too slow and is not worth trading MARION. ODOM and MURPHY are not enough in return for MARION and their shooting guard compliants are untouchable. I wouldnt even trade RICHARDSON straight up for one of the third team centers.

to recap that is
NASH, JOHNSON, (sf), (pf), STOUDEMIRE
(pg), (sg), JACKSON, MARSHALL (mle), HUNTER
the (sf) and (pf) spots will be filled off a trade. i'm a huge advocate of the ten man line-up. having the option of a line change is a plus so just bringing in anyone is not a choice. the popular option of adding finley or payton for the vet. exception can now be exercised for either of the back-up spots although i find it unlikely fin would come here unless he is garaunteed a starting spot. payton will also more likely then not go somewhere where he will recieve more money. so the draft picks will come in here. it seems that all the guards are slipping below the bigs in this draft anyway so that may play to this teams benefit allowing them to draft whoever they think is best. but there is still always hope that someone with above average talent will want a championship badly enough to come here for next to nothing.

marion and richardson are great athletes and any team would be lucky to have them. but i would still make any of the above mentioned trades because each of them makes this team better.

that's about as much as i've ever said, or typed at one time so i guess i'll stop. thankyou for reading my post and if you can repost it on other suns sites such as realgm i'd appreciate it. i just recently (in the past week) started reading these forums and this is the first one to admit me. i love the idea of everyone reading my thoughts.

p.s.- i'd also like to see a new asst. coach brought in who has success preaching d.

 

[Yuma]

the shooting guards list i stand behind. the small forwards list was hard to do because of the position being so deep so you're more then welcome to add bowen, mason, jones, simmons, and howard to that list.

OK, I haven't got all the way though your article and I cry foul already!

Joe Johnson is not on the SG list? I see you mostly went with offensive ratings, at least that's what it looks like. However, when you factor in defense and versatility, JJ has to be SOMEWHERE on that list. Some of those guys you list GMs would trade FOR JJ.

Also, at SF, Marion STATISTICALLY has to be on the list! Anytime you have a guy who's a 19 PPG and 11 RPG with 2 steals per game, the guy arguably is one of the top SF's in the league, no matter if he had one rough playoff series. I hear every night on NBA league pass, when the other team's commentators do the games, how their team's management gushes about Matrix being the workhorse of the Suns team. I realize most guys on the board don't like Matrix because of his salary, but as a junk yard dog, do what we need to win guy, he's not a guy the Suns can go out and easily replace.

 

[Chaplin]

OK, I haven't got all the way though your article and I cry foul already!

Joe Johnson is not on the SG list? I see you mostly went with offensive ratings, at least that's what it looks like. However, when you factor in defense and versatility, JJ has to be SOMEWHERE on that list. Some of those guys you list GMs would trade FOR JJ.

Also, at SF, Marion STATISTICALLY has to be on the list! Anytime you have a guy who's a 19 PPG and 11 RPG with 2 steals per game, the guy arguably is one of the top SF's in the league, no matter if he had one rough playoff series. I hear every night on NBA league pass, when the other team's commentators do the games, how their team's management gushes about Matrix being the workhorse of the Suns team. I realize most guys on the board don't like Matrix because of his salary, but as a junk yard dog, do what we need to win guy, he's not a guy the Suns can go out and easily replace.

You need to read the rest of the post, Yuma. He describes the Suns and why he didn't put them on the list.

 

[Kolo]

I don't know about what he wrote, but I wish I had as much spare time as nashmvp13.

 

[Yuma]

You need to read the rest of the post, Yuma. He describes the Suns and why he didn't put them on the list.

I just read it. That's not fair to leave them off. Reason being, you need to compare what we have, to what he's proposing to see if the team would be better after the moves he's made. Assuming Nash and Amare are in the top ten at their positions, I am arguing JJ and the Matrix are right up there on his lists. Therefore, some of the moves he proposes makes our team weaker, not better, imo. A Marshall and Hunter front line is better than a Matrix and Hunter frontline, Amare included in both? I have watched Marshall for years. This sudden infatuation with him making us NBA Champions is very questionable. If the guy put half the energy into every game that Marion does, he already would have some rings. That's his problem, he's never achieved and maintained what he was projected to do in the NBA. Marion may overachieve, but Marshall has underachieved for years, imo.

Edit: adding this to post: If we got Marshall as a bench player without trading any of our core guys, I would be OK with that. I see Marshall as a bench player for us, NOT a starter.

 

[scotsman13]

thanks for the work that you have put into this, but i am sorry i wouldnt trade marion at all and i dont believe that the suns are really to give up on barbarso based on what Bryan C. said about him in the exit video. remember this team doesnt need to be ripped apart it does need to be tuned up.

as for marion not doing well in the playoffs i disagree with you on that. he didnt do well against a player who maybe the best defender in the nba in bowen. but against dallas and memphis i thought he did very well (agianst memphis he averaged 21.3 pts, 12.5 boards, 2.25 blocks, 1.25 steals, and 554fg%, against dallas he averaged 23.3 pts, 12.2 boards, 1.83 blocks, 1.5 steals, and .482 fg%, even against the one of the best defensive players and his team (who were focused on closing him out) he still grab 10.8 boards.) for the most part this team doesnt run plays for marion so if another team is going to focus on closing him down then he will be hurt in that if their defender is willing to do the work.

if you are going to go out and look for star player to replace what we have already then you also take the risk of putting together a team that doesnt like each other and wont win because they wont work as a team. right now amare is the second best center in the nba. he creats havok against almost every team out there. jj is a player that can creat his own shot and can help other get theirs also a good defender. marion is the best rebounder on the team and maybe its best defender, he goes out and gets his own shot almost non stop, nash is the MVP but he doesnt play a lot of defense and team in the playoffs thought it was ok to elbow, kick, pull down or punch him without any real worry about the suns doing the same to them.

what this team needs more then anything else is a player that will make the other team pay for beating on amare or nash and soon jj. what this team needs is a player like KT. they also need to make defense a focus on this team. bring in a player like thomas will help in that. also focusing on that and moving without the ball in the half court set during training camp. they also need some more depth.



you would trade marion, barbs, q and jake for kmart and melo? are you kidding melo is a POS who i wouldnt want on any team.

 

[Yuma]

thanks for the work that you have put into this, but i am sorry i wouldnt trade marion at all and i dont believe that the suns are really to give up on barbarso based on what Bryan C. said about him in the exit video. remember this team doesnt need to be ripped apart it does need to be tuned up.

as for marion not doing well in the playoffs i disagree with you on that. he didnt do well against a player who maybe the best defender in the nba in bowen. but against dallas and memphis i thought he did very well (agianst memphis he averaged 21.3 pts, 12.5 boards, 2.25 blocks, 1.25 steals, and 554fg%, against dallas he averaged 23.3 pts, 12.2 boards, 1.83 blocks, 1.5 steals, and .482 fg%, even against the one of the best defensive players and his team (who were focused on closing him out) he still grab 10.8 boards.) for the most part this team doesnt run plays for marion so if another team is going to focus on closing him down then he will be hurt in that if their defender is willing to do the work.

if you are going to go out and look for star player to replace what we have already then you also take the risk of putting together a team that doesnt like each other and wont win because they wont work as a team. right now amare is the second best center in the nba. he creats havok against almost every team out there. jj is a player that can creat his own shot and can help other get theirs also a good defender. marion is the best rebounder on the team and maybe its best defender, he goes out and gets his own shot almost non stop, nash is the MVP but he doesnt play a lot of defense and team in the playoffs thought it was ok to elbow, kick, pull down or punch him without any real worry about the suns doing the same to them.

what this team needs more then anything else is a player that will make the other team pay for beating on amare or nash and soon jj. what this team needs is a player like KT. they also need to make defense a focus on this team. bring in a player like thomas will help in that. also focusing on that and moving without the ball in the half court set during training camp. they also need some more depth.



you would trade marion, barbs, q and jake for kmart and melo? are you kidding melo is a POS who i wouldnt want on any team.

Melo has been working hard under Denver's new coach to play within their system. He has been showing a willingness to learn. My only concern is, if you have JJ, then you don't need Melo. JJ is melo offensivly, but with better defense. Kmart would be OK only if we didn't trade Marion. Then we could go small with a 1-2-4-4-4 lineup and have shot blocking, rebounding, atheleticism and steals on our front line. That would mean Marion could stay out on the Arc, while Amare played his post up game, and Kmart could fill the lanes like he always does.

 

[coloradosun]

Two guys on Denver ESPN local affilate were talking this morning a mentioned that the chemistry on the Nuggets is horrendous. Nobody gets along off the court, and they suggest that Melo has to get rid of his "posse" and concentrate on basketball. There is no way you bring those two "me first" players to the Suns.

Denver is regretting that they took Melo over Dwayne Wade now that they have George Karl as Head Coach.

 

[Yuma]

Two guys on Denver ESPN local affilate were talking this morning a mentioned that the chemistry on the Nuggets is horrendous. Nobody gets along off the court, and they suggest that Melo has to get rid of his "posse" and concentrate on basketball. There is no way you bring those two "me first" players to the Suns.

Denver is regretting that they took Melo over Dwayne Wade now that they have George Karl as Head Coach.

Last time we played Denver, their homers, err comentators, said the inside skinny was that Karl was very surprised Melo had done whatever he asked. In fact, they made it sound like Melo buying into Karl's system is what made the other players follow suit. I guess the other guys couldn't argue if the main ingrate was willing to follow the company line.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The problem with this post is that there are numerous reasons teams will not make these trades and not all of them are basketball decisions. In my mind you basically asked for those teams three best young players...Ill try to explain what im saying by going down your list.....


Grizz- Gasol is one of the 5 best traditional big guys in the game. The one move the grizz have actually made since their inception they do not regret. If gasol is gone they have no one inside and that is certain death for a playoff team. Swift is not coming back (as b. wells isnt due to team chemistry problems)I could see miller and and def. wells being traded but you are going to have ot give up more than marion and richardson and we all know we are not doing that.
Celtics- There is one big factor you are not taking into account and that is our current superstar on the roster. Amare is not going to want to have to split up anymore shots and face time with a prima donna like pierce. In fact they have bad blood as Amare knocked out pierces teeth a couple years ago. This isn't a rotisserie team you cant just assemble as many stars as you want and think that you are going to feild some uber team. it just doesnt work that way. Oh and one more thing.....The Suns would be insane to take on the horrendus contract that La frentz has especially with his bad knees.

Sonics-If ray ray chooses not to resign i could actually see this one happening. Once again i dont know if STAT wants anymore shot makers to compete with. Admit it ir not that is a facet in any of these trades. Amare is the face of the 'chise and any big move like this wi/o consultation is just begging him to opt out.

Redd and Bogut- This is my favorite of all. You want the Bucks to give up the best player they have had in 5 years as well as their number one pick???....and you even think they wouldnt laugh of us off the phone if we tried to pry away mason too. This would never happen in a million years and you shouldnt have even taken the time to write it.

Sixers- No freaking way this is happening either. I have mentioned in the past that Marion for Dalembert and iggy might happen but they are not going to trade away three years of good drafting for one shot at it. Besides Q's game is probaly the worst fit w/ AI imaginable. You keep wanting these teams to give up big for small but there is a formula you have to think about (this formula being why KT IS our best option) 1.5 wing player=1.0 Post Player. Its just how it works in the NBA. Its why Bogut is considered the number one when guys like Paul and Williams are way more talented.

Denver-Another laugher...you expect them to trade away the face of the franchise for Q, barbs, Voshkul, and Marion....AND YOU WANT KMART?????? Right bro, the nugs finished strong last year and believe they got what it takes for a full season w/ Karl. They are one of a few teams that could really use Q, and if we got Nene back that would be a workable deal. Carmelo to the suns....why dont we just ask for Lebron????

Toronto-Once again the best draft pick they have made in years is not going to be traded. Amare and Bosh would not playoff each other very well as Bosh is just poor mans STAT. These teams want to build around their one or two good players not blow up the whole team. Not only does that alienate fans, it alienates players as well.

Utah- Possibly as it was reported this was in the works few weeks back. I would actually like this trade to go through as i feel Kiri is a better player than Marion.

Kings- Why would the Maloof bros. ever actually do this. They just appeased Stojakovic by trading Webber and Miller is the best post player they have left. He is a rarity as a Top 5 Center. Much to high of value at this point. And while they wont trade Peja, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot by getting rid of the little D we have and getting another chucker.

I understand you watch alot of ball and that this was your first post but cmon man. Some of these ideas are just a waste to even read. Of the nine deals you put, only two had some principles involved that might be able to be had and are worth having. Otherwise these options are so pie in the sky. 7+ player trades only happen with all role players as it is impossible to match up stars value AND two or three guys off the bench at the same time. Amare is the foundation and we need to build the team with guys who work within the system that is built for him, not the other way around. Guys like Joe and Nash (and even Marion) are guys that are perfect to complement STAT. Great players whose role is not needing the ball 25 times a game to shoot and be effective. You cant just insert an all star team into this run and gun system and expect it to work (see Dallas 2004). The fact is i was happy they were able to get back a big as good as KT w/o having to give up Marion. Q was not needed on our team and although KT does not have the name recognition he is a great player for our lineup. You dont HAVE to have a scorer at every position. In fact it is a detriment. Our O is fine with the natural progression of STAT and Joe and we need to realize there are other facets to the game. If we get back KT, surround a couple other productive bench players with the current group, we can def. win it all. Anything else woul be a whole new season to readjust giving back all the Momentum we had at the end of the year.

 

[nashmvp13]

i didnt know 20-25 minutes after going through my morning routine was a tremendous amount of time.

these ideas were just that, ideas... suggestions... i thought it be fun...

and ill address it one more time.

anyone brought in would take marions and q's shots... and incase theirs any confusion those two took a tremendous amount of shoots... check it out...

stoudemire wants moves to be made, he wants another big man... no he doesnt want to see his friends go, but ive heard him on several occasions state that in order for him to have a long healthy career he wants a big man by his side to ease his burden...

as far as chemistry goes if you can get talent you take it and figure it out... i dont see any of those guys clashing... ray, gasol, redd, pierce, dalembert, and everyone else are stand up guys who want to win... winning is a remedy for any ill will... you can never have too many all-stars

ive been reading that the grizz are not happy with all members of their squad including gasol (especially after the playoffs). IF they are looking to move him i think that he would be perfect here. stoudemire wants a big man and he would be it. miller, williams, or wells would just be extra... ive heard they want more blue coller guys like battier, marion fits that mold.

the celtics deal would be huge... theyre looking to move pierce and no way is lafrentz a stiff... if they dont like that then replace him with blount and add another player to the mix but everything i said about lafrentz is true... watch him play and check out his stats

redd and allen only work if they refuse to return to their teams... IF they refuse... they dont want to lose them for nothing... so you throw in bogut or evans and you get marion and q in return... dont underestimate marions value with q as a kicker... he is definately a guy you want on your team... just not as your big...(the bucks said they were listening to offers for the pick)

sixers made a move for the now by acquireing webber... they say they stand by that despite the criticism... plus dalemberts and korvers contracts are up... once again if they are going to lose these guys anyway to free agency why not work something out with the suns

players in the nba want to play for this team...

anthony is serious... he's no dwade or lebron but very few players are... i hear hes a hard worker... and you bring over camby or kmart and i just dont see threr being any chem problems with stoudemire... that is IF they are looking to make that kind of move... marion would be a upgrade over melo, and they need a guy like q (they have no shooters)... have nene move in and play either center or pf depending on who they let go...it would be a good move because they have that back up big man who will cost them less then their starters waiting to step up and fill in... they would have to look hard at this deal

the raptors have been blowing up thier team for years and are still looking to move guys around... trying to bring in magloire.. trying to move mopete and rose... you hear about it all the time... you said so yourself... bosh is a poor mans stat... marion is the better player... IF their looking to make a major move this could be it...

the further down my list you go the more i was reaching... it was just for fun... but i do think most of the deals are extremely plausable...
i dont think the kings would make that trade... i even said that...
and with utah, marion is the better player... atleast for now... ak47 is serious but hes not on marions level yet

just for fun... thanks for appreciating the work

 

[Mainstreet]

Denver is regretting that they took Melo over Dwayne Wade now that they have George Karl as Head Coach.

Who wouldn't, no matter who is the head coach?

 

[cly2tw]

nashmvp13,

I was with you the first part, namely that Q and Marion are expendable parts of this team. Then I completely lost you the rest of the way when you suggested that other teams sold farms to get those non-essential pieces from the Suns.

Your trade proposals are way too homerish imho. Basicly, you ask most other teams to give up a franchise player for Marion/Q without thinking for them how they should build a contender by doing so. In comparison, potential tension or chemistry issues with our incumbent franchise player, Amare, become moot points.

 

[George O'Brien]

nashmvp13,

I was with you the first part, namely that Q and Marion are expendable parts of this team. Then I completely lost you the rest of the way when you suggested that other teams sold farms to get those non-essential pieces from the Suns.

Your trade proposals are way too homerish imho. Basicly, you ask most other teams to give up a franchise player for Marion/Q without thinking for them how they should build a contender by doing so. In comparison, potential tension or chemistry issues with our incumbent franchise player, Amare, become moot points.

I agree. Typically there is a logic whereby each team gets what it wants or needs. Rumors that simply start with "here is what I'd like and here is what I'd give up to get it" generally goes nowhere.

When Eric proposded the deal with the Bucks, it was based on a scenerio whereby Redd would leave the Bucks and the Bucks have drafted a big guy. Smith is not a great player, but serviceable. Q is not a great player, but he has something to offer to a team that just lost its main shooter.

It didn't happen, but the logic was sound. In the case of the deal that did happen, the Knicks are likely to get rid of Houston and Hardaway is in serious decline. The Knicks have several young PF's they'd like to develop and hope to draft a center. The basic logic of the deals was quite similar.

 

[asudevil83]

WOW....reading some of those proposals over, i must say that only 3 of them are even worth talking about. the others are downright laughable.

I could see the Celtics seriously consider Pierce and Raef.....but we would have to be crazy to. Pierce is a selfish ballhog who doesnt belong anywhere near this team. Raef has a disgusting contract.

Evans and Allen is decent.....if we were getting a 26 year old Allen not a 30 year old Allen who wants a 6 year deal. the suns would die from this trade in 3 years....with both Nasha and Allen on their last legs. we'd be like the knicks with an old feable backcourt.

And lastly, the Utah deal is OK.....probably the best one there. its been talked about before, and i think the suns would do it.

Gasol and Miller MAYBE for our package. I'd much rather have Miller than Q, and Gasol/Marion is a toss-up. adding wells though kills it hardcore.

Redd and the #1 for Marion and Q is LAUGHABLE......not to mention you have us getting a guy like Mason or Gadz. Redd/Marion is again a toss-up....but Q is not worth the #1, much less also Mason.

You MIGHT be able to pry Dalambert/Iggy/Jackson for Marion/Q....but we'd also have to give up a first rounder. we'd be trading major youth for mature youth....but the upside of Dalambert/Iggy outweighs Marion/Q. in 2 years or so, this deal would be a steal for the suns.

the Denver and Raptors trades are the worst IMO. you have each team giving up a franchise player....especially Toronto. would you give up Amare for ANYTHING? Toronto feels the same way about Bosh. Factor in us giving them ANOTHER LONG MAX contract, where they have Rose coming off the books in two years....and this is a screwup deal for Toronto.

i must also mention that Dalambert and Iggy/Bosh/Melo/Redd are more cornerstone pieces than Randolph/Brand. i believe that Portland would be more than happy to give up Randolph if a decent deal came up.

 

[elindholm]

When Eric proposded the deal with the Bucks, it was based on a scenerio whereby Redd would leave the Bucks and the Bucks have drafted a big guy.

So you don't have me on ignore after all!

 

[George O'Brien]

When Eric proposded the deal with the Bucks, it was based on a scenerio whereby Redd would leave the Bucks and the Bucks have drafted a big guy.

So you don't have me on ignore after all!

If you check, I said I thought your proposal was very reasonable at the time.

I think most mistakes come for vastly overrating or underrating ones own players. It's hard to be objective about the real market value of players and I thought you had that one pegged pretty well assuming Redd ends up going to Cleveland.

 

[elindholm]

If you check, I said I thought your proposal was very reasonable at the time.

For the record, your initial reaction was to write, "Wow. A trade proposal from Eric," with the "shock" smiley. So yes, I did know even then that you didn't have me on Ignore.

Nonetheless, thanks for the support.