How Will the Refs Call This Game?

azirish

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Posts
3,876
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
In the Suns first game against the Spurs, the Suns took a TOTOL of 6 foul shots. It is hard to play the kind of physical defense the Spurs do without fouling, but somehow the refs don't see it that way.

In the Suns loss on Apr 5, Amare went only 7 of 19 while taking only 5 foul shots. It is very hard to defend Amare without fouling, but the refs seemed to swallow their whistles.

If the refs call a tight game, the Suns have a very good chance of winning tonight. But if they let the Spurs play "rollerball" defense, it could be a long night.

It will be interesting to see if Amare's call out of Bowen effects how the game is called.
 

Gaddabout

Plucky Comic Relief
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
16,043
Reaction score
11
Location
Gilbert
If Duncan is not guarding Amare, I think it stands a good chance he'll get to the line 10 to 12 times by himself. If Bell continues to take the ball to the hole, he'll get his shots, too. Those two guys are capable of getting their matchups in foul trouble.

I thought Bell's aggressiveness was a quiet yet profound factor in Game 2.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,307
Reaction score
16,776
Location
Round Rock, TX
If Duncan is not guarding Amare, I think it stands a good chance he'll get to the line 10 to 12 times by himself. If Bell continues to take the ball to the hole, he'll get his shots, too. Those two guys are capable of getting their matchups in foul trouble.

I thought Bell's aggressiveness was a quiet yet profound factor in Game 2.

To me, Bell and KT are the unsung heroes so far in this series. Bell is so far under the radar, people tend to forget about him. The media does the same--"Ginobili isn't having a bad series because of Bell's defense, he's just in a rut." We all know that's a load of crap.

With KT containing Duncan and Bell containing Manu, this series is ours for the taking. But those are pretty big jobs, and in Game 2, they were up for it (and in Bell's case, both games).
 

BC867

Long time Phoenician!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
17,827
Reaction score
1,709
Location
NE Phoenix
Now that Amare has made this an issue, we'll see how the refs have been instructed by the NBA to call the game.

Will it be the ol' boy network of favoring intimidation over speed, as it's always been?

Or will it allow D'Antoni's style to work in the playoffs as it did during the season (when it put life back into the NBA)?

And, if so, will it be just in the aftermath of Amare's blowing the whistle or will it be permanent?

Either way, I hope that Kurt Thomas starts and plays 30+ minutes whenever necessary.

Being outrebounded is a separate issue from dirty players trying to cause injury.

Or, even more, keeping Amare out of foul trouble is essential for the Suns to succeed.
 

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
Not sure anyone saw this on Truehoop.





UPDATE: Interesting, and relevant: In an exhaustive play-by-play analysis of the refereeing in Game 2, Adam Hoff of WhatIfSports concludes:
I learned that even in a huge Suns win, the Spurs still got the benefit of +10 on the calls. And that was being as fair as humanly possible, giving San Antonio the benefit of the close calls (to balance any natural bias I might have), AND ignoring the 20-25 Bowen and Oberto fouls away from the play. I am more convinced now than ever that the Spurs have an enormous systematic advantage over every other team when it comes to the whistles.
Article below.
--------------------------------

Wednesday, May 09, 2007

Suns-Spurs Game Two: Watching the Whistles


Tonight you all get a special treat. I am always stating both here on the blog and in conversations with friends that the Spurs enjoy an overwhelming advantage in almost every contest when it comes to the officiating. But this is hard to prove. So tonight I decided to watch every single play multiple times and then to watch the close calls in slow motion, in an attempt to ascertain what is really going on. I'm looking for fouls that don't get called, bad calls, and violations that don't get called. And for an added bonus, I am keeping track of "baby" points, which go to overt (and hilarious) complainers and people taking ridiculous flops.

Let's rock.

First Quarter

1st Suns possession - Bowen fouled Nash three times: a block, a push, and a reach. We'll just count it as one uncalled foul.
1st Spurs possession - Thomas gets called for a reach on Duncan, but replays reveal that it was a clean strip.
2nd Suns - Nash makes a nice up fake and gets Bowen to leave his feet and clearly commit a foul, Bowen then complains as if charged with manslaughter.
7th Suns - Duncan and Elson both hammer Amare on a dunk attempt and there is no call; Stoudemire does get a rebound and a call on the follow. I'm still scoring this as a bad no-call, because if Amare doesn't get that rebound, the Suns get screwed badly.
9th Spurs - Duncan takes tough fadeway and it looks like Thomas may have touched his shooting elbow. I'll give Duncan the benefit of the doubt and score this as a bad no-call.
11th Suns - Raja Bell bites it on a rebound attempt. Slow motion reveals he just fell down and that there was no Bowen foul (again, looking at all suspect plays in slow-mo on the TiVo).
12th Suns - Nash circles under the hoop and gets ridden to the ground by Bowen. No call, although it was not that egregious, probably a 50/50 call. I won't tally this one.
15th Spurs - Bell closes out on a Parker jumper, touches Parker on the hip with a fingertip and us called for foul. Maybe the most amazing foul I've seen in the second round. Well, after the call on Pavlovic in the Cavs-Nets game earlier tonight.
15th Spurs (part B) - After an offensive rebound on a Parker missed free throw, Duncan goes into the post, takes three steps (seriously, count them), throws his arms into Stoudemire, and gets the whistle. Amare is straight as an arrow. I honestly don't know what else a defensive player is supposed to do. This is what you would teach a big man at a clinic. In short, Amare gets boned again. Somehow, Steve Kerr doesn't bat an eye (saying only, "the crowd doesn't like it"). I'm telling you, we are all brainwashed. This is the reason I am performing this service tonight.
16th Suns - Classic San Antonio. Horry grabs Diaw, gets called for the obvious foul, turns to the blocked out official and pleads for a Diaw hooking foul. When he realizes the other ref had an easy view of it, he flashes a sheepish grin and raises his hand.
17th Spurs - Duncan, as the trailer, catches the ball at the top of the key, takes a step, and then drags his pivot foot. Obvious travel. No call. Of course, traveling calls are rare in general, so I'll let this one slide.
18th Suns - Barbosa misses a jumper and Diaw appears poised to grab the rebound, but Horry pushes him to the ground. Granted, Diaw acted a bit and the push didn't appear to be that hard, but it was much more blatant than the Bell touch foul on Parker. The crowd goes bonkers. An overreaction on that specific play (encouraged by Diaw's dive), but somewhat understandable given the one-sided nature of the calls.
19th Suns - Amare gets nice position, Nash throws a bounce pass and Duncan reaches around for an easy foul call. He immediately spins around, points at himself, and gives the ref his classic, "Who me? I'm Tim Duncan, you can't possibly be calling a foul on me" face. You stay classy, San Antonio. (I should mention that he then raises his hand like the league's best citizen that he is. Now if he would do that before complaining, I might be impressed.)
21st Spurs - Manu and Duncan run a pick and roll and Bell winds up on the ground with the crowd going crazy. In real time it seems like a classic Raja flop. However, in slow motion, you can see Duncan set the screen, put both hands into Bell's chest, and shove him to the ground. Not only a foul, but a legitimately dirty play. I should mention there was no call. Then, in an effort to waste the good will he has just earned, Bell tries to leg whip Duncan from the ground and trips him up. In fairness to the refs, they don't call this either. Two shady plays, two very obvious fouls, no calls. So this one is a draw.
23rd Suns - Ginobili, trying to draw an offensive foul on a pedestrian Diaw screen (a real 2005 Manu play when he became an uber villain; he's actually reduced that stuff quite a bit, to his credit), accidentally mows over Bell. When called for a foul, he is stunned. This is high comedy.
23rd Spurs - Ginobili puts the struggling Boris Diaw on skates and scores on one of those "off the wrong leg" numbers. I reviewed it because it looked like it might have been a travel, but other than a possible carry (which I would never call, personally, or else I would have to call that on every play of the game), he took the two steps all NBA players get. It just looked like a travel because of the wrong foot thing. So this one was all good.

End of First Quarter - Spurs 25 Suns 19.
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 4
Uncalled PHX fouls - 2
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +7
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 3, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Suns 2
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +1
Comments: Easy to see why Suns fans are ready to riot heading into the second quarter. Nothing terribly blatant, but in classic Spurs fashion they have pushed and grabbed and baited their way into a +7 advantage on calls. I'm being as generous toward San Antonio as I can and there is still no other way to score it. And this is a Phoenix home game! The net effect of this is a six-point lead for the Spurs. Also, despite Raja's (not the one where he fell, but the time he tried to sell the push) and Diaw's flops, the Spurs still are bigger babies, because of three hilarious whining displays on blatant calls. These were the kind of "are you kidding me right now?" knee-jerk reactions that make you wonder if they actually practice complaining.

Second Quarter (will reset possession count)

2nd Spurs - Oberto appears to catch Diaw with an elbow, but the slow-mo reveals that Diaw rode him with the hips first. So good call (the refs called the foul on Diaw). Now if only that play was also illegal for Bruce Bowen. Diaw gets dinged in my tally for complaining on this one.
4th Spurs - Oberto goes baseline and is stripped by Diaw. Very hard to see without a different angle, but the slow-mo seems to show Diaw hitting Oberto's wrist. This is probably a 50/50, but in the interest of fighting against my natural bias in this "study," I am chalking this up as a bad no-call in favor of Phoenix.
5th Spurs - Oberto "back taps" an offensive rebound while holding onto Diaw's left arm like a life preserver. I'm calling it a draw though because Diaw was performing some strange face guarding block out technique and was doing a little pushing himself.
5th Suns - Bell is called for a kicked ball, which I didn't even know could be called against an offensive player. He was just trying to pick it up and happened to bobble it into his own feet. Danny Crawford missed this one horribly. It's not part of the systematic officiating advantage that the Spurs usually get (the little shoves and hacks) and that the first quarter bore out, but was still a terrible call. This is more of the "garden variety" crappy NBA officiating.
6th Spurs - This is where you would expect the proverbial makeup call after the Danny Crawford botch job, but instead, they look the other way as Oberto clubs Diaw over the head on a rebound. I don't think much of Diaw, but his only crime here was getting in the way of Oberto's flailing fists.
6th Suns - At first I thought this was the makeup call, as Raja gets an "and one" that didn't look like much in real time. But the slow-mo shows Oberto throwing a forearm shiver into his ribs. If nothing else, this exercise is revealing Oberto to be a pretty despicable fellow.
7th Suns - During a fast break Oberto plants another elbow in Diaw's ribs. If this clown stays in the game it will A) skew the numbers and B) wear me out. This is already four times as long as I anticipated. But it seems there are a lot of close calls in an NBA game, all needing careful analysis if I'm going to come up with anything worthwhile. Still, I'm not counting this one because it was kind of a non-factor.
8th Spurs - This one was close but it appears Diaw hit Ginobili on the arm while trapping a pick-and-roll. Suns get a break here.
10th Spurs - Oberto shoves Marion in the back before receiving the pass, then when he catches and gets the Matrix in the air on a pump fake, gets to the line. Further review shows that Marion got pretty much all ball. You can't block a shot much better.
(Note: unless it really matters, I'm going to stop charting off-the-ball fouls that don't impact the action. Otherwise, Oberto and Bowen are going to screw this whole thing up.)
11th Spurs - Bowen catches a pass and then jumps sideways to shoot a three. Obviously, you can't make a jump stop and then jump with both feet; that is a travel. But AI has been doing this (although his is more of a slide) for years, so we won't harp on it. No harm.
15th Spurs - Amare slaps Horry in the face, but no call. Unfortunately for the Spurs, Horry decides to milk it instead of picking up the ball, so it leads to a fast break layup. The Suns get a favorable call, but give Horry a "baby" point.
22nd Spurs - After a prolonged clean stretch (there was one scramble play that just looked like good hustle by both teams), Parker draws a dubious foul by face planting. After repeat viewings, it is clear that no one in white touched him. This is only made worse by the fact that he took a step, then a jump stop, then another step (a crossover), than picked up his pivot foot. I'm not sure, but I think that is like three traveling violations on one play. Suns get screwed twice on one play, but we'll just count it as one. (The funny thing about Parker's travel is that Marv Albert then exclaimed, "Somehow he found the space!" Yeah, somehow.)
24th Suns - I'm not counting any of these, because of my vow to ignore off-the-ball fouls that don't directly impact the play, but I have to just shake my head in amazement (admiration?) at the stuff that Bowen gets away with. On this play (which ended in a Nash layup), he threw a forearm in Marion's face at one end of the court (as the ball was being inbounded) and then grabbed Kurt Thomas with both arms (to keep him from rolling after a screen) at the other. Some guys would get called for intentional fouls for this stuff.
26th Suns - Unbelievable play. Ginobili tries to flop, doesn't get the call, then wraps his arms and legs around Stoudemire's left leg to keep him from rolling and catching a pass. The ball goes skipping out of bounds and Amare stares at the ref in disbelief as he points down at Ginobili, who is doing his best koala bear impersonation. No call. This is RIGHT in front of Danny Crawford. Even Steve Kerr noted that this was a foul. Danny Crawford is having a rough game.
27th Spurs - Duncan mows over Nash and Pop goes crazy and gets a tech. No one is sure what Pop is upset about, but he definitely gets a "baby" point. Not as pathetic as D'Antoni's outburst in Game One, but still weird and unjustified.

End of Second Quarter - 49-42, Suns (30-17 Suns in quarter).
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 2
Uncalled PHX fouls - 3
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +2
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 1, Suns 2
Pathetic flops - S.A. 1
"Net" baby factor - Even
Comments: The Spurs only had a +2 call advantage in this quarter and the Suns took advantage with a 30-17 second period.

Third Quarter

Spurs 2nd - Bowen came close to traveling, but kept his pivot foot down. Nothing but a crowd overreaction here.
Suns 2nd - Michael Finley gets called for a phantom foul on a Raja Bell drive. Bell's second free throw goes in and out in classic "ball never lies" fashion.
Spurs 6th - Bell gets called for a very tough blocking foul. Parker basically put his head down and ran him over. Even if Bell wasn't completely "set" or was "still moving," isn't an offensive foul ultimately a player control foul? That said, I'm not scoring this is a bad call, because there are too many charging fouls in general and I refuse to support the constant flopping going on. I don't think Bell flopped here, but he's done it enough that he loses the benefit of the doubt.
Suns 6th - Amare wants a foul call, but Duncan appears to have a clean block. Right before this Bowen accidentally knocked Nash down, which is fine, but then when Nash got back up, he grabbed him around the waist with both hands, which is not fine. I'm not scoring it, but I implore all basketball fans to watch a full game and monitor Bowen's every move. Then tell me that he didn't commit somewhere between 25 and 100 fouls.
Suns 7th - Amare has a monster dunk down the lane. It is funny, because Duncan hit him right on the arm on this one, yet Stoudemire doesn't seem to mind when he still scores. Hey, if he doesn't mind, I don't either. Duncan is off the hook on that one.
Spurs 9th - Thomas does a flawless job on Duncan, only to get a bad break when a loose ball turns into a foul. Good call though.
Spurs 16th - Amare gets away with a hold on Duncan. It is debatable whether it affected the play, because he let go before the pass was thrown. But since I could clearly see him holding Duncan's waist (it almost looked loving, like a slow dance) and since the Suns stole the pass, I'm saying "uncalled Phoenix foul." It is worth noting that this is only the second bad call of the entire third quarter and we've already got seven minutes in the books. By NBA referee standards, this quarter is a freaking Picasso.
Suns 16th - Oberto tries to take a charge, but both feet are clearly inside the restricted area. The he flops in incredible fashion.
Spurs 17th - Tough call on Amare as Duncan puts a forearm into his face, but there is no way around it. Some tough calls are still right calls. Stoudemire has been boned over many times in this series, but not this time.
Spurs 19th - Okay, these are the refs I know and love. Duncan gets away with an awful moving screen and then takes two steps backward before dishing out to Bowen for a three. I might let one or the other slide, but in sequence that counts as an "uncalled San Antonio violation." I'm also giving Kurt Thomas a pathetic flop here for trying to take a shady charge on Manu. Come on, Kurt, you've had a great game, you are better than that.
Suns 19th - Duncan hits Amare on the shooting hand and then across the shoulder, then tops it off with a look of total shock. Then Steve Kerr calls him out for it. Baby point for TD.
Spurs 20th - Funny moment. Oberto gets called for a three-second violation and is completely shocked. On further review, he was in the key for eight seconds.
Spurs 21st Horry gets knocked down after a steal with no call. The shove caused him to travel and they didn't call that either, so this appeared to be one of those plays were the refs just call nothing because they can't be bothered. Probably not the best way to go, but not worth counting in the tally.
Suns 24th - Spurs go crazy wanting a Diaw travel, but the slow-mo shows he took a step with the left, then one with the right. Nothing more than the typical move. Just looked weird, like a Ginobili drive.
Suns 25th - Suns fans want a goal-tending call on Horry and for good reason. He blocked it after it hit the backboard. Whoops.

End of Third Quarter - Suns 71 Spurs 64 (third quarter a 22-22 tie)
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 0* (note: Bowen had about 12 alone, but they didn't have a direct impact. Although you could argue that is exactly the genius of his approach, because the refs are probably thinking the same thing I am and therefore not calling them)
Uncalled PHX fouls - 1
Bad calls on S.A. - 1
Bad calls on PHX - 0
Uncalled S.A. violation - 2
"Net" advantage on calls - Even
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 1, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Spurs 1, Suns 1
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +1
Comments: Much, much, MUCH better job by the officials in this quarter. Which is actually in keeping with my theories on this whole thing. I believe they do their shoddiest work early, because they know it will wind up being overlooked. But as John Hollinger of ESPN is fond of saying, points count the same in the first half as they do in the second.

Fourth Quarter

Spurs 3rd - Ginobili takes three steps (covering about 15 feet) and doesn't get called for traveling. The crowd is, shall we say, displeased.
Suns 10th - Bowen hits Barbosa across the chest. But it is one of those "we'll just call it out of bounds instead" plays, so no harm.
Suns 11th - After Nash throws a pass to Barbosa, Bowen hits Nash in the face. Seriously, watch Bowen for 48 minutes sometime. Really watch him. It will blow your mind. Like that old MTV show Diary, I thought I knew, but I had NO idea.
Suns 14th - Bowen doesn't like a solid screen from Kurt Thomas, so he grabs Thomas' leg then throws an elbow ... then gets posted up for two points.

End of Fourth Quarter - Suns 101 Spurs 81 (fourth quarter 30-17, just like the second quarter)
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 2
Uncalled PHX fouls - 0
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 0
Uncalled S.A. violation - 1
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +3
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 0, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Spurs 0, Suns 0
"Net" baby factor - None
Comments: The Suns ran away with it in the fourth quarter and at that point, the Spurs literally lost the will to foul.

End of Game Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 8
Uncalled PHX fouls - 6
Bad calls on S.A. - 1
Bad calls on PHX - 6
Uncalled S.A. violation - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +10
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +2
Comments: I learned a lot from this. I learned that when you analyze every single play that a lot of calls that look bad really aren't that terrible. And that a lot of them really are. I learned that it takes about six hours to watch a game this way. I learned that even in a huge Suns win, the Spurs still got the benefit of +10 on the calls. And that was being as fair as humanly possible, giving San Antonio the benefit of the close calls (to balance any natural bias I might have), AND ignoring the 20-25 Bowen and Oberto fouls away from the play. I am more convinced now than ever that the Spurs have an enormous systematic advantage over every other team when it comes to the whistles. Now I just have to figure out why. I will explore this in the next post.


Posted by Adam Hoff at 2:32 AM

http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/suns-spurs-game-two-watching-whistles.html
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,244
Reaction score
68,150
the above post/blog is the most ridiculous/saddest thing I've ever skimmed over in my entire life. Who the hell does the above? Don't they have a life?

I love the line about putting this type of examination together took six hours. Here's a little note - the referees don't have SIX HOURS TO GO OVER THINGS - they have a split second. There's a bit of a difference there.

some people need to realize that a blog does not = life. (note SUNSFN - the above post isn't directed at YOU, but at the blog itself).
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
I would have guessed Dick Bavetta would be out there tonight, but he worked yesterday's game. If the league wants someone who can be controlled by the crowd, Bennett Salvatore might put in a command performance.

On the other hand, if they want somebody who'll wash his hands of the controversy and say, "You kids work this out for yourselves", I guess Steve Javie might be the choice. Dan Crawford probably commands the most respect of the refs they have left, but he just worked game 2.

Wait and see, I guess.
 

msdundee

Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Posts
1,109
Reaction score
0
Location
SE Arizona
I would have guessed Dick Bavetta would be out there tonight, but he worked yesterday's game. If the league wants someone who can be controlled by the crowd, Bennett Salvatore might put in a command performance.

On the other hand, if they want somebody who'll wash his hands of the controversy and say, "You kids work this out for yourselves", I guess Steve Javie might be the choice. Dan Crawford probably commands the most respect of the refs they have left, but he just worked game 2.

Wait and see, I guess.

I'll take Javie any day, any game. Please, no Violet. And PLEASE, no BS!
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
Well, they definitely went the Salvatore route, bringing in Donague and Eddie F. Rush. Two of the most gutless tenured officials in the league, working together.

I guess the Suns are scheduled to get (more of a) fair shake in game 4. In the meantime, they'd better keep hitting their shots, because they won't be getting many calls...Nash in particular was getting hammered throughout the first half. :shrug:
 

Ciani

Registered
Joined
May 4, 2006
Posts
445
Reaction score
0
Location
Hungary
In the 1st half, they rarely made mistakes, but in the 2nd, we are screwed.
 

arwillan

The King
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Posts
2,952
Reaction score
0
blame the refs all you want but when nash shoots how he did, and wide open 3 after wide open 3 is given up, what do you really want?
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,307
Reaction score
16,776
Location
Round Rock, TX
blame the refs all you want but when nash shoots how he did, and wide open 3 after wide open 3 is given up, what do you really want?

But if the refs don't let him get into a rhythm, how is he supposed to make 3s?
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
blame the refs all you want but when nash shoots how he did, and wide open 3 after wide open 3 is given up, what do you really want?
I guess I could argue that Nash was fouled on most of his missed shots, and they gave up threes because they weren't allowed to guard players in the paint one-on-one.



Eh, believe what you like. :)
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
I normally don't blame the refs that much, but the bias in this game particularly late in the game is so blatant that I'd say they robbed our chance to get back by repeated no-calls on several Bowen pulling/hitting Nash and the clear foul of TD on Amare layup. They made some calls only after the game is almost decided, one prompting DA to say "why call it now".

And earlier, two cheap off. foul call on Amare was also quite out of line.
 

msdundee

Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Posts
1,109
Reaction score
0
Location
SE Arizona
Hard to beat the Spurs with Stoudemire only in for 20 minutes. The fourth foul on Amare was ridiculous, a couple of them were just bad moves on his part so you can't blame it all on the refs. It was interesting, though, to hear the ABC guys and their views of some of those calls -- and the no-calls, especially on Steve. They were chopping on him all night.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,244
Reaction score
68,150
Hard to beat the Spurs with Stoudemire only in for 20 minutes. The fourth foul on Amare was ridiculous, a couple of them were just bad moves on his part so you can't blame it all on the refs. It was interesting, though, to hear the ABC guys and their views of some of those calls -- and the no-calls, especially on Steve. They were chopping on him all night.

the worst call of the night was the Nash foul when Duncan clearly charged into him - that's Duncan's 4th and he's out the rest of the 3rd quarter right before they made their run to push it to 8 the first time - then, we come all the way back to cut it to one and the second unit plays like the freaking bobcats and give up 8 points in the last buck thirty.

it don't matter - we're gonna win Game 4.
 

Heavy D

Rookie
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
51
Reaction score
0
Bruce Bowen fouled the %$#& out of Nash, non-stop, all game. And he gets called for 2 fouls? And once again there he is committing a cheap shot, but I'M SURE he didn't mean to knee Nash in the groin.

I'm going to hand it to the Spurs, though. They're smart. They've created an atmosphere where they can foul and get away with it, and everyone says, "That's just good, physical defense." Here's how they made it happen:

Step 1: Tell your whole team and coaching staff to dispute and complain on every single call, no matter how small or insignificant. At each timeout, have either Pop or one of the assistants rush out to berate an official for the duration of the timeout. Fans will follow your lead when you're at home.

Step 2: Foul, foul, foul. Then foul some more. The refs are not going to call a foul on every play. They just aren't. They know that Stern would be on them for slowing down the game. After awhile, they'll become conditioned and will let lots of fouls go.

I say we'll win the next game. Who played well for us? I can't say that anyone did. And they still could not put us away. We'll win the next game. Then we'll bring it back to Phoenix, where the refs will be swayed by our crowd. We'll beat the hell out of them. We're going to win the series, for sure.
 

arthurracoon

The Cardinal Smiles
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Posts
16,534
Reaction score
0
Location
Nashville
bowen was hacking at nash down the court, and the refs did nothing about it until the very end.
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
I say we'll win the next game. Who played well for us? I can't say that anyone did. And they still could not put us away. We'll win the next game. Then we'll bring it back to Phoenix, where the refs will be swayed by our crowd. We'll beat the hell out of them. We're going to win the series, for sure.
Yeah, the fact that the Suns were able to stay as close as they did confirms my belief that the Suns are the better team here.

That doesn't mean they'll definitely win game 4, of course. :shrug:
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
Hard to beat the Spurs with Stoudemire only in for 20 minutes. The fourth foul on Amare was ridiculous, a couple of them were just bad moves on his part so you can't blame it all on the refs. It was interesting, though, to hear the ABC guys and their views of some of those calls -- and the no-calls, especially on Steve. They were chopping on him all night.

What did they say? I live in Taiwan and have only the local commentators in Chinese.
 

arwillan

The King
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Posts
2,952
Reaction score
0
What did they say? I live in Taiwan and have only the local commentators in Chinese.

just that bowen was overly-physical with nash. that duncan clearly fouled amare on a couple of plays, etc etc.
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
Bruce Bowen fouled the %$#& out of Nash, non-stop, all game. And he gets called for 2 fouls? And once again there he is committing a cheap shot, but I'M SURE he didn't mean to knee Nash in the groin.

I'm going to hand it to the Spurs, though. They're smart. They've created an atmosphere where they can foul and get away with it, and everyone says, "That's just good, physical defense." Here's how they made it happen:

Step 1: Tell your whole team and coaching staff to dispute and complain on every single call, no matter how small or insignificant. At each timeout, have either Pop or one of the assistants rush out to berate an official for the duration of the timeout. Fans will follow your lead when you're at home.

Step 2: Foul, foul, foul. Then foul some more. The refs are not going to call a foul on every play. They just aren't. They know that Stern would be on them for slowing down the game. After awhile, they'll become conditioned and will let lots of fouls go.

I say we'll win the next game. Who played well for us? I can't say that anyone did. And they still could not put us away. We'll win the next game. Then we'll bring it back to Phoenix, where the refs will be swayed by our crowd. We'll beat the hell out of them. We're going to win the series, for sure.


The problem is they call it on the other side. Amare fouled Duncan with his 4th, no doubt but TD did exactly same by only hitting his wrist on Amare's dunc/layup attempt, no call.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
552,055
Posts
5,394,974
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top