How would you have preferred the Arizona Cardinals 2011 draft to go

[AZCARDSFANATIC]

1. Jerry Rice
2. Anthony Munoz
3. Reggie White
4. Steve Young
5. Earl Campbell
6. Bobby Bell
6. Deacon Jones
7. Dick "Night Train" Lane

That would have been awesome!

Can any of these guys play?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

1. Jerry Rice
2. Anthony Munoz
3. Reggie White
4. Steve Young
5. Earl Campbell
6. Bobby Bell
6. Deacon Jones
7. Dick "Night Train" Lane

That would have been awesome!

Sorry! but I think Earl is at best a 6th rd pick; Deacon would have been long gone... and you could have picked Lane up as UDFA. (Anyone who has acquired instant expertise after reading a few magazines knows this, and I'm surprised that you don't.)

 

[conraddobler]

Scott Pioli the KC GM who came from the Patriots put it best when he said, and I'm paraphrasing not quoting exactly, "It's always a mix, 80-20 70-30 BPA vs Need, and it changes."

I think as an organization we've have suffered from being way too need based in the past and then after DG got here now Rod is off the deep end on BPA.

There's two places BPA can go wrong, not addressing the need portion of your roster equation and in the talent evaluation itself.

IMO we most definitely whiffed on filling some need we had to get addressed on Lbers and the talent evalution remains to be seen.

 

[Duckjake]

Scott Pioli the KC GM who came from the Patriots put it best when he said, and I'm paraphrasing not quoting exactly, "It's always a mix, 80-20 70-30 BPA vs Need, and it changes."

I think as an organization we've have suffered from being way too need based in the past and then after DG got here now Rod is off the deep end on BPA.

There's two places BPA can go wrong, not addressing the need portion of your roster equation and in the talent evaluation itself.

IMO we most definitely whiffed on filling some need we had to get addressed on Lbers and the talent evalution remains to be seen.

Did he say anything about drafting BPA at a position you don't use?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Scott Pioli the KC GM who came from the Patriots put it best when he said, and I'm paraphrasing not quoting exactly, "It's always a mix, 80-20 70-30 BPA vs Need, and it changes."

I think as an organization we've have suffered from being way too need based in the past and then after DG got here now Rod is off the deep end on BPA.

There's two places BPA can go wrong, not addressing the need portion of your roster equation and in the talent evaluation itself.

IMO we most definitely whiffed on filling some need we had to get addressed on Lbers and the talent evalution remains to be seen.

This wasn't a Graves board per se. It was a Graves, Whiz, Keim... the scouts and the coaches board. Without FA to distract, they spent their time setting the board. Pure BPA; BPA at position of need, etc... and grading a couple of hundred under a variety of criteria. If there was a LB at any point who clearly out weighed the evaluation given the player selected, he would have been the choice.

 

[conraddobler]

This wasn't a Graves board per se. It was a Graves, Whiz, Keim... the scouts and the coaches board. Without FA to distract, they spent their time setting the board. Pure BPA; BPA at position of need, etc... and grading a couple of hundred under a variety of criteria. If there was a LB at any point who clearly out weighed the evaluation given the player selected, he would have been the choice.

Well we did get a guy who never fumbles, they all signed off on that one true enough.

Look, this team has some talent on it, it's pretty amazing we couldn't win a horrid West last year, criminal IMO.

I haven't forgiven THIS CREW, the AFOREMENTIONED for that yet and I'm not going to.

They can claim it's BPA and it may be, I question their managment skills specifically.

 

[Cardiac]

Did he say anything about drafting BPA at a position you don't use?

We haven't used TE's because we haven't had any with receiving skills.

Beanie limping around and THT dropping the ball when he sneezes.

So what was everyones list of needs going into the draft? I'm pretty sure mine was QB, OLB, SILB, LT, TE, NT for depth.

Since the FO didn't like any of the QB's as a PQBOTF I'm more then fine getting a vet via FA or trade.

Man I wanted a stud pass rusher but more importantly we need a SOLB because O'Brien should explode this year. Acho in the 4th is a positive.

We waited until the 6th rd for a potential SILB so even though many think we got a steel I'm still nervous about this position.

No value in the top 2 rds when we were on the clock. After that it's a crap shoot since LT's are always over drafted.

Well I was underwhelmed when we took Housler but as I have become more informed then I like the pick. It was a need no matter what Duckjake says.

We didn't address the NT position at all.

Our number 1 pick is a CB and it wasn't on my list of needs. I'm still thrilled because you can't find a pundit who doesn't like the pick.

RB wasn't on my list of needs but I like the pick a lot because of the value and it's not like we are set at the position.

FB, really a FB?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well once again I knock the ignorance out of my head and see why this was a great pick as well. A ST's ace to replace Wright and hopefully someone who can actually throw a lead block.

No Levi's, Chad's, Rolle's, Knight's etc etc.

Were we any better of a team when we picked any of the above?

 

[Dougmo]

This wasn't a Graves board per se. It was a Graves, Whiz, Keim... the scouts and the coaches board. Without FA to distract, they spent their time setting the board. Pure BPA; BPA at position of need, etc... and grading a couple of hundred under a variety of criteria. If there was a LB at any point who clearly out weighed the evaluation given the player selected, he would have been the choice.

This is why I've (kinda) stopped belly-aching about the picks. They obviously did not value the available linebackers or they would have taken them. I wouldn't pretend to know more then our coaches about the needs of the team or the potential of the prospects.
My concern is that it seems like we haven't improved in these last 3/4 drafts (and seasons) as much as I had hoped/thought. Thus we need to continue to draft these positions.
I'd hoped we were set at RB, that THT would figure it out, Beanie would get healthy and beast-like, and we'd figure out how to utilize LSH. I have to assume our staff has major doubts about one of those players. So we draft RB again (hoping this time it'll be different).
At one point Ben Patrick seemed like a steal. Now we'll probably just let him go and hope this Housler will work out.
I'm a being impatient? Probably. It just doesn't seem like we are:
a) picking players correctly
b) developing players
c) putting our players in positions to win on game day
d) all of the above

I don't know.
Hope springs eternal and I am warming up to this new group.
Maybe this year, with the new DC, we'll see some true progress. DRC and Calais fulfilling their promise, Toler, Washington and Robinson continue to improve, Beanie assert himself, Keith show he belongs, Peterson dominate and a couple of the other rookies show me why I'm no scout.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

This is why I've (kinda) stopped belly-aching about the picks. They obviously did not value the available linebackers or they would have taken them. I wouldn't pretend to know more then our coaches about the needs of the team or the potential of the prospects.
My concern is that it seems like we haven't improved in these last 3/4 drafts (and seasons) as much as I had hoped/thought. Thus we need to continue to draft these positions.
I'd hoped we were set at RB, that THT would figure it out, Beanie would get healthy and beast-like, and we'd figure out how to utilize LSH. I have to assume our staff has major doubts about one of those players. So we draft RB again (hoping this time it'll be different).
At one point Ben Patrick seemed like a steal. Now we'll probably just let him go and hope this Housler will work out.
I'm a being impatient? Probably. It just doesn't seem like we are:
a) picking players correctly
b) developing players
c) putting our players in positions to win on game day
d) all of the above

I don't know.

Hope springs eternal and I am warming up to this new group.
Maybe this year, with the new DC, we'll see some true progress. DRC and Calais fulfilling their promise, Toler, Washington and Robinson continue to improve, Beanie assert himself, Keith show he belongs, Peterson dominate and a couple of the other rookies show me why I'm no scout.

All good points.

I tend to take note whether someone is drafted as a junior or senior in factoring in my expectations and when. It's not simply base talent, but also mental and physical maturity that comes into play. Allan Branch is an example of someone who came out early; took some time to adjust, and is turning into a pretty solid rotational player. I'd expect jumps from Washington, Toler, Williams and Schofield this season; Keith and Beanie on "O". And, wouldn't be suprised if Campbell starts to dominate in tandem with Dockett.

 

[Dougmo]

All good points.

I tend to take note whether someone is drafted as a junior or senior in factoring in my expectations and when. It's not simply base talent, but also mental and physical maturity that comes into play. Allan Branch is an example of someone who came out early; took some time to adjust, and is turning into a pretty solid rotational player. I'd expect jumps from Washington, Toler, Williams and Schofield this season; Keith and Beanie on "O". And, wouldn't be suprised if Campbell starts to dominate in tandem with Dockett.

I sure hope so. I thought alot of our young guys would make a bigger jump last year and thought most took a step back (rookies excluded).
I'm hoping it's becuase Bill Davis was a moron at DC and was using these guys wrong. I've got a bucket full of blind faith in Horton!

 

[Duckjake]

We haven't used TE's because we haven't had any with receiving skills.

Beanie limping around and THT dropping the ball when he sneezes.

Beanie wasn't even on the team in 2008 when the Cards finished dead last in rushing attempts. And he wasn't limping around as a rookie when he averaged 4.5 yards per carry in 2009 when the Cards finished dead last in rushing attempts.



EDIT: As for the TE, I guess a guy who can't block but can catch is better than guys who can't catch or block. I'm looking at Housler as a WR not a TE. That makes the pick more palatable.

 

[Russ Smith]

Beanie wasn't even on the team in 2008 when the Cards finished dead last in rushing attempts. And he wasn't limping around as a rookie when he averaged 4.5 yards per carry in 2009 when the Cards finished dead last in rushing attempts.



EDIT: As for the TE, I guess a guy who can't block but can catch is better than guys who can't catch or block. I'm looking at Housler as a WR not a TE. That makes the pick more palatable.

Physically he resembles Vincent Jackson but it sounds like the Cards intend to use him as a combo Wr/TE.

Of course given recent history we all know what will happen, Housler will become every opponents "tip", we'll throw the ball everytime he's in the game so teams will always know if he's in, it's a pass.

 

[conraddobler]

Physically he resembles Vincent Jackson but it sounds like the Cards intend to use him as a combo Wr/TE.

Of course given recent history we all know what will happen, Housler will become every opponents "tip", we'll throw the ball everytime he's in the game so teams will always know if he's in, it's a pass.

You mean like how they know when our FB goes in motion A CERTAIN WAY it's a run?

You'd think we'd learn to use these tendencies ourselves to score an easy td, just pretend it's going to be a run and then .... pass.

To be fair I think we did do this last year, finally.

Our FB for the most part is handy for the other team, they use him more than we do.

 

[Zeno]

Physically he resembles Vincent Jackson but it sounds like the Cards intend to use him as a combo Wr/TE.

Of course given recent history we all know what will happen, Housler will become every opponents "tip", we'll throw the ball everytime he's in the game so teams will always know if he's in, it's a pass.

Excactly what I am thinking as well.

 

[Mulli]

Excactly what I am thinking as well.

But they still won't be able to stop the Cards, because <insert QB here> and Housler will be sWeEt!!!!

:heykoolaid:

 

[Duckjake]

Physically he resembles Vincent Jackson but it sounds like the Cards intend to use him as a combo Wr/TE.

Of course given recent history we all know what will happen, Housler will become every opponents "tip", we'll throw the ball everytime he's in the game so teams will always know if he's in, it's a pass.

But, we could put Housler in the game at the same time as Beanie. It would make the Defenses' heads spin.

I love it. See ya Ryan you're on your way to Ohio.

 

[vinnymac]

We haven't used TE's because we haven't had any with receiving skills.

Beanie limping around and THT dropping the ball when he sneezes.

So what was everyones list of needs going into the draft? I'm pretty sure mine was QB, OLB, SILB, LT, TE, NT for depth.

Since the FO didn't like any of the QB's as a PQBOTF I'm more then fine getting a vet via FA or trade.

Man I wanted a stud pass rusher but more importantly we need a SOLB because O'Brien should explode this year. Acho in the 4th is a positive.

We waited until the 6th rd for a potential SILB so even though many think we got a steel I'm still nervous about this position.

No value in the top 2 rds when we were on the clock. After that it's a crap shoot since LT's are always over drafted.

Well I was underwhelmed when we took Housler but as I have become more informed then I like the pick. It was a need no matter what Duckjake says.

We didn't address the NT position at all.

Our number 1 pick is a CB and it wasn't on my list of needs. I'm still thrilled because you can't find a pundit who doesn't like the pick.

RB wasn't on my list of needs but I like the pick a lot because of the value and it's not like we are set at the position.

FB, really a FB?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well once again I knock the ignorance out of my head and see why this was a great pick as well. A ST's ace to replace Wright and hopefully someone who can actually throw a lead block.

No Levi's, Chad's, Rolle's, Knight's etc etc.

Were we any better of a team when we picked any of the above?

I agree with you 110%. I was hoping to get Ryan Mallet in the draft. Maybe I am just a homer. I too was thrown off when the Cardinals took the te in the 3rd round when Mallet was right there for the picking. All I saw was Florida Atlantic and I threw a fit that a 2 year old would have been proud of. After researching and listing to other people take on the pick I came to my senses. Reading and listening to other people take on the cardinals draft, they all seem to like what the Cardinals did. So I am in wait and watch mode now.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

With hindsite I would have gone something like this:
1) CB Peterson
2) TE Kyle Rudolph
3) OG Moffitt
4) SOLB Acho
5) WOLB Chris Carter
6) ILB Quan
6) NT Jerrell Powe
7) WR Dane Sanzenbacher

My thinking with this is if we truly are hoping to develop a run game, Rudolph and Moffitt can help with that (although I'd assume Moffitt would sit for a year or so).
Powe could be in the rotation but we'd probably still get a free agent vet NT to mentor and rotate for a couple of years.
Acho could be in the rotation behind Davis and Haggins.
Carter can be behind Schofield (but we'd probably want a vet bridge here as well).
It's alot of youth to assimilate in the LB corp. but I think it's needed.
I'd love to get a developmental LT but I didn't see anyone I liked. That would be a high priority for the following year.

I like this one tad better......still like the real one.

 

[JeffGollin]

No rap on who we actually drafted, but:

001. Patrick Peterson CB
038. Brooks Reed OLB/DE
069. Stevan Rackley G
103. Casey Matthews LB
136. Lee Smith TE
171. BrandonFusco C
184. Virgil Green TE
249. Joe LeFeged S

 

[Cardiac]

I agree with you 110%. I was hoping to get Ryan Mallet in the draft. Maybe I am just a homer. I too was thrown off when the Cardinals took the te in the 3rd round when Mallet was right there for the picking. All I saw was Florida Atlantic and I threw a fit that a 2 year old would have been proud of. After researching and listing to other people take on the pick I came to my senses. Reading and listening to other people take on the cardinals draft, they all seem to like what the Cardinals did. So I am in wait and watch mode now.

Maybe so but it wouldn't have even earned a bronze medal on this board.

I love the passion of the fans on this board!

 

[kerouac9]

Physically he resembles Vincent Jackson but it sounds like the Cards intend to use him as a combo Wr/TE.

Of course given recent history we all know what will happen, Housler will become every opponents "tip", we'll throw the ball everytime he's in the game so teams will always know if he's in, it's a pass.

So are we essentially going to go 4-wide on every play? Because we have two other slot WRs (three if Breaston is coming back) and no legit #2 WR.

Doucet
Roberts
Breaston
Housler

Are we giving up on Roberts as a WR? On Doucet altogether? Or are we going to a spread offense where all Housler will be asked to do is chip a DE (with no OT engaging him per usual) on his way into the seam route?

The Cards went all-in on this draft class. If Whis loses his job in the next two years, his successor will find a roster perhaps more bereft of talent than the one Dennis Green inhierited.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So are we essentially going to go 4-wide on every play? Because we have two other slot WRs (three if Breaston is coming back) and no legit #2 WR.

Doucet
Roberts
Breaston
Housler

Are we giving up on Roberts as a WR? On Doucet altogether? Or are we going to a spread offense where all Housler will be asked to do is chip a DE (with no OT engaging him per usual) on his way into the seam route?

The Cards went all-in on this draft class. If Whis loses his job in the next two years, his successor will find a roster perhaps more bereft of talent than the one Dennis Green inhierited.

Keep Stephen Williams in mind as a possible - non-slot - no. 2

 

[kerouac9]

Keep Stephen Williams in mind as a possible - non-slot - no. 2

He's in the way, way back of my mind, but I did think about him.