Hunter vows to increase his size, strength, wealth

[lancelet's cousin]

Hunter's main value is forcing guys to shoot from futher out. It doesn't show on the charts, but he has been a help. That being said, Hunter is a long way from being the guy the Suns need.

In any case, Hunter is better than most of the $2 million a year big guys who populate the NBA. Some recent signings included:

Rebraca makes $2.5 million and averaged 16.0 minutes and (3.2 rpg)
Drobnjak makes $2.8 million and averaged 20.2 minutes (3.4 rpg)
Ostertag made $4.2 million and average 9.9 minutes a game
Tsakalidis signed for $2.9 million and averaged 9.0 minutes a game
Divac made $4.9 million and played in 15 games an average of 8.7 minutes (it's not like it was a secret that he was far far over the hill)

So amazing as it might sound, I think Voskuhl may have some market value and Hunter is almost certainly going to get overpaid.

I'm of the opinion Hunter won't be here next year. Any time an athletic big puts up an increase in production, regardless if it was the product of the system (as is the case here), some team goes overboard for them.

What I want to know is, what other unknown big currently rotting on the bench of a slow-tempo team would benefit from our system?

I can't say I even knew who Hunter was when we signed him. I'm sure there are other busts out there that we can sign. Because we certainly got our moneys worth from Hunter. I imagine he will be a major disappointment for some team next year.

 

[George O'Brien]

Actually, I think the market for Hunter will be muted. This is a guy that anyone could have picked up off vaivers las summer on a rookie contract. Most GM's are going to look at his dismal rebounding figures on a team that doesn't rebound well, and wonder if his value is limited to an up tempo team in need of an athletic shot blocker.

I hope Hunter is re-signed because he is one of the few big men capable of playing at the Suns pace. But there aren't many other teams with that need and it is not clear Hunter would do well on a slow down team. None the less, it is amazing how much total stiffs get offered so the Suns may be forced to pay a lot more than he's worth.

BTW, for whatever it is worth, the biggest bargain in the off season may have been Joel Przybilla

Joel Przybilla $1.6 million
Portland Trail Blazers
Position: C
Height: 7-1 Weight: 255
College : Minnesota '00
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 6.4
RPG 7.7
APG 1.0
SPG .32
BPG 2.14
FG% .598
FT% .517
3P% .000
MPG 24.4

Mehmet Okur $7.5 million
Utah Jazz
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 249
From : Turkey
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 12.9
RPG 7.5
APG 2.0
SPG .39
BPG .83
FG% .468
FT% .850
3P% .270
MPG 28.1

 

[Errntknght]

I suspect the Suns considered Przybilla and Mihm - I know here we talked quite a bit about them being possible pickups for little money. Both of them were relative disappointments up til this year or they'd have been going for a lot more, of course.

I think the Suns should keep an eye on Mikki Moore - the Clippers may get careless about him as he is not a big difference maker and they've got several fish to fry. If we lose Hunter, Moore would be a good replacement and a steadier player of a very similar type. He's a UFA, I'm quite sure.

 

[Joe Mama]

I suspect the Suns considered Przybilla and Mihm - I know here we talked quite a bit about them being possible pickups for little money. Both of them were relative disappointments up til this year or they'd have been going for a lot more, of course.

I think the Suns should keep an eye on Mikki Moore - the Clippers may get careless about him as he is not a big difference maker and they've got several fish to fry. If we lose Hunter, Moore would be a good replacement and a steadier player of a very similar type. He's a UFA, I'm quite sure.

I like Moore as well, but I'm quite sure he will get every bit as much as Hunter. Chad Ford's blog yesterday had a whole section about the Phoenix Suns, and what might happen with them this summer. He suggested that some stupid team might even throw mid-level exception money at Hunter. In that case I will almost guarantee that the Phoenix Suns let him go. If he was smarter they would keep him, but he's not.

Joe Mama

 

[lancelet's cousin]

I like Moore as well, but I'm quite sure he will get every bit as much as Hunter. Chad Ford's blog yesterday had a whole section about the Phoenix Suns, and what might happen with them this summer. He suggested that some stupid team might even throw mid-level exception money at Hunter. In that case I will almost guarantee that the Phoenix Suns let him go. If he was smarter they would keep him, but he's not.

Joe Mama

I really think bigger hands would mask Hunter's apparent low BB IQ. I think that is his biggest downfall. And he can't work on that.

But Joel Pryzbilla is a great name to throw out there. Moore seems to be getting a bit too much attention to fly under the radar.

 

[cly2tw]

With the exception of maybe Q and JimJ, all other 5 players who played in the Spurs series profitted greatly from the composition of the Suns' roster, at least for this season. That's the reason BC deserved his EOY award for assambling a really complementary squad, DA for COY for making the most out of this squad, and Nash for MVP for being the most crucial link that holds the pieces on court for this year's success.

This also implies that, besides Amare after his statement, coming-out series vs the Spurs, from Marion, to Joe, to Hunter all appear to be a much better players than they would on an average NBA team. A stupid manager might overlook this fact and give Hunter a fat offer say the MLE. Then we will let him go and let him be someone else's frustration. Otherwise, we should be able to convince him to sign for the 1.6-1.8 exception with a player option. If he improves, he will get paid later using either the Bird or early-Bird exception, and the Suns are known for rewarding loyalty.

The reason I don't want to pay him the MLE already yet is as most of you have put there, he is still the b-ball-sense-lacking athlet as when he joined us a year ago. It's frustrating to see walking around on offense, being a negative factor 30% of the time, and a waste another 50%. He is really only useful as a defender at which position he seems to be able to focus on his assigned task much better and more consistently utilize his athletic ability to the team's advantage. So, let's let it be if he leaves for money, which he should do if the money were there.

 

[F-Dog]

Hunter did a great job for the Suns this year, especially considering his salary. They signed him as a flier to compete with Voskuhl and Lampe for PT, and he turned out to be a solid role player and a great chemistry guy. His combination of length and light feet is almost unique, and it made him a great fit with the team's running style.

That said, my guess is that 90% of young, low-level UFAs don't re-sign with their old team. The Suns will be bidding against 20 other teams with Hunter, and one of those teams is going to show up with Calvin Booth money...the Suns would be idiots to match an offer like that, since Hunter is so limited offensively.

I'd like to see the Suns use their LLE this summer on a backup center. If Hunter is available for that, then snap him up; if not, good luck with your new team Steve!

 

[George O'Brien]

Free agency is always about "one stupid GM", but I suspect that a GM who blows his full MLE on Hunter would get lynched. It's not his offense, he doesn't need to score, it's his rebounding. His rebounds per minute played is a lot lower than Voskuhl's, believe it or not.

Hunter 3.0 rpg in 13.8 minutes a game for a 48 minute average of 10.4
Voskuhl's 2.4 rpg in 9.5 minutes is a 48 minute average of 12.1

At this point in his career, Hunter is still mostly a shot blocking specialist who sometimes does an OK job defending opposing bigs. Anything more than $3 million is totally out of line and I would expect he will not get offers more than about $2.5.

If he is smart, he would take the Sun's $1.7 and a player option deal. His market value is likely to be much higher in a couple of years if showcased in an offense best suited to his talents. By constrast, he is almost certain to fall out of the rotation with every other team because he is still a work in progress.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hunter is just the type of player that teams blow their cap on.

Its very important for the Suns NOT to over pay for Hunter. He's worth keeping around, but at the right price. A 3-4 year deal at 8.5 to 12 million would be about right.

We'll see.

Maybe we could sign and trade Hunter and Eisley's contract to Charlotte for nothing, and then sign a FA.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Maybe we could sign and trade Hunter and Eisley's contract to Charlotte for nothing, and then sign a FA.

I agree with your numbers on Hunter (although there may be better FAs willing to take a discount - so who knows)

However, the Suns cannot trade Eisley's contract. It was a buyout, so it will remain on the cap until the the year it was supposed to come off. It is not a tradeable asset.

 

[asudevil83]

i think the most i'd be willing to drop on hunter is a 3 year $9mil contract, starting at $2.5mil and increasing $500,000 each year.

i certainly wouldnt come out and offer him that to start. he should come around and sign something like a 3 year $6mil at $2mil straight across the board.

 

[elindholm]

{Hunter's} rebounds per minute played is a lot lower than Voskuhl's, believe it or not.

I keep telling everyone that Voskuhl is really a pretty good rebounder, but no one ever listens.

 

[Joe Mama]

{Hunter's} rebounds per minute played is a lot lower than Voskuhl's, believe it or not.

I keep telling everyone that Voskuhl is really a pretty good rebounder, but no one ever listens.

we could try combining the two of them into one player.

Jake Voskuhl is a piss poor defender. He uses the "stick em up" defensive positioning which is and surely getting in the way of the offensive player with both hands straight up in the air.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Jake Voskuhl is a piss poor defender.

Don't change the subject.

 

[George O'Brien]

Jake does not have particularly long arms, lacks quickness, and isn't very strong. The result is a guy who will never be more than mediocre on defense. But Jake does hustle and that's how he gets rounds.

BTW, Jake's lack of upper body strength is one of his biggest problems. He gets so many ticky tack fouls because he has to use both hands to keep guys out of the paint. Also, his reaction time is poor, so he is constantly getting hit with blocking fouls rather than taking charges.

 

[elindholm]

Man, am I sorry I brought it up. These gratuitous swipes against Voskuhl get really tiresome. You can go on and on about his short arms and allegedly subpar upper-body strength -- and I know you will -- but the only point I was making is that he is fundamentally a pretty good rebounder. And he is. If you had watched some games back when he played, you'd see that he gets rebounds by boxing out, not just through hustle. Actually, since he isn't quick or a good jumper, his "hustle" advantage is pretty negligible; I think it's safe to say that the majority of his rebounds result from positioning. His teammates could learn something by watching him rebound.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't understand it either. Jake doesn't deserve this kind of lambasting--it's not like he lost games for us.

But hey, SOMEONE is going to blast every player on the team no matter who it is.

 

[Errntknght]

The main reason Hunter gets fewer rebounds than Jake is that he is almost always going for a block when a shot goes up around the hoop, which takes him out of position to rebound. It's true that he could exhibit better judgement as to when to go for the block but for a young guy he's erring in the right direction.

I'm very disappointed in Jake - he has improved slightly in four years but not like I expected he would. He seems to be intelligent enough to figure out what doesn't work but he still defends the same rotten way he always has and commits the same dumb fouls. He still lacks any kind of close in shot - a jump hook, short fadeaway, up and under - something! His FT shooting quit improving and his jumper did, too. So what the heck does the guy do with his time that he's not learning anything???

 

[devilalum]

Hey I don't have anything against Jake but it's too bad the Suns can't take the $2 mil. he's going to make next year and add it to Hunters current salary. $2.7 mil would probably be enough to keep Hunter around without using the MLE.