scXfreakX
Huh?
Yeah and I understand we need a big. It's just tough to figure out the Spurs.
Hurry Up, Kerr. We're Waiting!
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nashman
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Stats mean NOTHING in this case as in many others. Skinner is a fraction of the player Thomas is and we didn't want him why the heck would we want Skinner? Not gonna happen give it up!
The case for Skinner is that he has been reasonably healthy, is fairly athletic, an "active" defender, and has been a pretty good rebounder over his career.
The case against Skinner is that he has limited offensive skills and his team defense is not that great.
Right now, his biggest attraction is that he might be cheap and is probably better than Marks. If you have a suggestions of someone better (at the price), I'm certainly interested.
nashman
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My point is why bring in a big stiff when he WON"T play, Thomas got some time because he could knock down the midrange which D'antoni liked. If the guy has limited offensive skills he will never get on the floor. And to the Sunsman44 it was just an observation that you have done nothing but complain and offer no positives about a championship caliber team since you been here. Positively speaking we are better than most every team in the NBA and if officiated fairly we are pretty much better than EVERY team as we are right now!
I think your criticism of Sunsmann44 is a bit premature. He's new and certainly supporting Skinner is a negative although accusing dissenters as "fools" is uncalled for.
In any case, discussions of the merits of backups from other teams is always a challenge. I can't remember seeing Skinner play in several years. The Bucks were not really a big draw for TNT. If you have seen him play, a detailed discussion of what he does right an wrong would be helpful. "He sucks" is not very helpful because most minimum guys are very limited to begin with.
The second and more difficult issue is whether signing a banger who won't play much is a good idea. The case for getting a banger is that sometimes they can bring some toughness when the other team is just shoving the small Suns around. That was the case given for Anderson Varejao who is another offensively limited banger (though more talented than Skinner).
Skinner at least can run floor. But if there is someone with a better mix of skills, I'm interested. But saying he won't play much is not really very helpful unless you think there is someone else better than Marks if the Suns get into foul trouble.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
WHAT?!? we're gonna run tucker at the 4???
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Sunsman44
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Wow. Newcomer Nashman with about 150 more posts than me is trying to run the newbie off the roof? Hmm.....Again, please don't write a reply to me until you are feeling better. I don't like your attitude-driven words.
What you don't understand is the fact that you, Nashman, are not offering any helpful advice and insteading using all your 150-something posts to bash other's writings without offering a solution.
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With that said, how can u call Skinner a big stiff?
Skinner is:
-Younger than Kurt.
-More athletic than Kurt.
-More authoritative in the paint than Kurt.
-A more active defensive player than Kurt (although not one-on-one).
-Hustles more than Kurt (because of his age).
In a sense, Brian Skinner is a poor-man's New York Knick Kurt Thomas - and New York Knick Kurt Thomas was pretty darn good.
My solution is simple:
For the money the Suns have - or lack of money for that matter - their only possible solution is A) Brian Skinner B) Michael Ruffin C) James Singleton or D) Melvin Ely --- unless PJ Brown doesn't retire, doesn't play for a Florida team, and takes a huge pay cut.
From those given players - A thru D - your best bet is Brian Skinner for all the obvious reasons/attributes listed in the first posting in page 1.
Simply saying Skinner is a stiff and you are negative shows how little you know and how little thought you have put into any of your posts. Try again another day, Nashman. And bring out your positive attitude. I know u have one.
Until then, Brian Skinner it is. He is cheap, plays very well, and is far more athletic than anyone else on the list of guys Suns can actually get.
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Sunsman44
The Sunsman Defense Team
Well, if guys like Matt Barnes and Michael Pietrus can play the power forward for Don Nelson, I don't see why Alando Tucker can't play the power forward for D'Antoni's run and gun Suns.
In fact, I kind of like Tucker at the four spot. A poor man's Marion off the bench. Very athletic. Can dunk very well. Can rebound pretty darn good for a 6-6 player.
Go Tuck!
nashman
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Sunsman44
Wow you are a little crazy! I bash others writings... you might want to actually know what your talking about before you write total falacies. I tend to agree with most posters because they generally offer useful insights instead of just complaining with all what 40 something of your posts. I am a fairly new user and have quite a busy life so i can't spend a ton of time on here so forgive my low post count. Would it make you feel better if I had thousands of posts? Anyway i am not trying to run any one off the roof as you say. Just simply made an observation you did not agree with so what move on its a message board.
Wow you are a little crazy! I bash others writings... you might want to actually know what your talking about before you write total falacies. I tend to agree with most posters because they generally offer useful insights instead of just complaining with all what 40 something of your posts. I am a fairly new user and have quite a busy life so i can't spend a ton of time on here so forgive my low post count. Would it make you feel better if I had thousands of posts? Anyway i am not trying to run any one off the roof as you say. Just simply made an observation you did not agree with so what move on its a message board.
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you do realize that Nellie's Warriors got the ever living crap beat out of them by a barley above average Jazz team and would have gotten crushed by the Spurs. Sure they showed they can beat the Mavs, but we've been there done that.
And this doesn't even take into consideration that both of those guys took a couple years to become the players they are today, which is leaps and bounds better than what we should expect from Tucker this year.
I'm not inclined to expect Tucker to be a big contributor either, although I think he will play more than some expect. At a 6'6" in shoes and 205, he's small for SF much less inside (Marion is in the neighborhood of 230). You never know, but it seems unlikely he'll play inside.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
pietrus is 6'7 and barnes 6'8. tucker is 6'6 on a good day. he's closer to 6'5. he'd be an undersized sf playing pf. ridiculous. and nowhere did i say i wanted pietrus playing pf for us. i'm already sick of having marion do it, and he does it better than any other sf.
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Ouch, I don't think he said YOU said you'd want Pietrus playing PF for us - I think he was using GS as an example of why we could do it, even though I believe it to be a bad example since they got crushed bythe Jazz in the playoffs and the Spurs were one of the only teams down the stretch of the season that kicked the snot out of them as well.
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Sunsman44
The Sunsman Defense Team
Wrong on many things. Check your ESPN player profiles:
-Matt Barnes is NOT 6-8. He is 6-7. He was listed as 6-6 at UCLA.
-Mickael Pietrus is NOT 6-7. He is 6-6. Exact same as Tucker.
-One can argue that Alando Tucker has a greater leap than any of those two players and definately Barnes for sure.
-It was reported in a Wisconson Badgers online source before the draft that Tucker could be listed as 6-7 in the NBA because he was a bit over 6-6 in college. NBA decided to keep him at 6-6.
Conclusion: Tucker is the same height as Pietrus and only less than an inch shorter than the weaker jumping Matt Barnes. Add Tucker's ability to dunk and rebound and he could very well be fit for the power forward. Totally see this working for the Suns.
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And regarding Marion at the power forward:
In my opinion, he plays a lot better at power than small. His numbers certainly dip when at small and excell when at power. In fact, he has played power the past 4 out of 5 seasons. I don't understand why people don't just count him as a power forward. He certainly rebounds the same if not better than the top powers of the NBA. ESPN should just label him PF and get this stupid small forward thing out of the way.
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really? Even though Tucker can't shoot like those guys and doesn't have those guys handles? You can see this working for us? You do realize they're out there as PF (and Pietrus ain't out there as a PF very much if at all) to spread the floor, jack up threes(36 and 38% respectively) and go to the hole. How is Tucker going to do those things when a) he's not a good shooter and b) has below average handles?
and even beyond that - how could this work for us against the Spurs or the Jazz, who routinely trounced the Warriors playing their midget lineup?
I'm not sure what the Warriors prove about the style. The bottom line is that the Jazz packed the paint and dared the Warriors to beat them from the outside and the Warriors did not shoot that well: 43.4% from the field and 34.9% for three (60 of 172 shots in just five games).
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they also dominated them rebounding wise - by a disgusting total. Using GS as a template is recipe for disaster.
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Sunsman44
The Sunsman Defense Team
These are fantastic questions you raise.
However, ask this to D'Antoni. He is the one in favor of Tucker at power forward.
I am merely a fan in support of coach's moves.
Bottom line: Suns are going to be super super fast. By playing Tucker at the power, you can have backdoor picks with Amare/Diaw for an alley-oop. Tucker is one of the best leapers. Super athletic. Fantastic dunker. You've got Nash at the point, Raja and Barbs at the wings for three, Tucker and Amare in the paint helping each other with backdoor dunks.
What else you want? Superman?
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I think there's a middle ground between Superman and a 6'6 power forward. Problem is, from the looks of it right now, the Suns just don't want to pay for one.
another problem with the lineup you've thrown up there is we'll just get demolished on the boards. Tucker couldn't even rebound in the summer league against summer scrubs but he'll be able to do it against the big boys? We can be faster than Speedy Gonzalez and it won't matter if we can't secure a rebound.
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Sunsman44
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Let me explain something to everyone:
D'Antoni would rather quit or get fired than to play a center or real power forward.
Suns are small. They want to run. That is D'Antoni's identity.
If you can think of something better - without going over the CAP - then I am all for it.
Rigth now just sit back and enjoy the small man ride. (Plus hopefully a Skinner addition to add 6 fouls, lol)
D'Antoni would rather quit or get fired than to play a center or real power forward.
Suns are small. They want to run. That is D'Antoni's identity.
If you can think of something better - without going over the CAP - then I am all for it.
Rigth now just sit back and enjoy the small man ride. (Plus hopefully a Skinner addition to add 6 fouls, lol)
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Sunsman44
The Sunsman Defense Team
Guys, Tucker is an inside player. Not very good on the jumpers, so he makes up for it in the inside. I've always said he is a poor man's Marion. Sure looks like he and Marion are gonna be the power forwards for 2007-2008.
Remember, Tucker played mostly power forward in college. The man can rebound, score inside, and jump high. I say MARION/TUCKER at the power with AMARE/DIAW at the center - plus MARKS as bonus. You've got your 5 BIGS already:
Here is an article from DraftExpress from back in 2006 about Tucker playing the four:
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"Tucker has always been known as an explosive leaper with a power forward’s game and a small forward’s body. If his game against Marquette was any indication, he may have the tools to be effective at the power forward position in the NBA. Tucker created many of his shots off the dribble, and knows how to finish against defenders of all sizes inside, thanks to explosive leaping ability and good knowledge of how to use different angles of the backboard. Tucker’s jumping ability combined with good body control give him a chance to finish inside after taking the contact of a foul. His mid-range jumper looked very good as well, and he created a lot of very nice looks from the 12-15 foot range. Off the dribble, Tucker is deceptive with a series of head-fakes and speed changes he uses to get away from the defender. Tucker started his career playing mostly inside, and still has the ability to score on defenders with his back to the basket."
source: http://www.draftexpress.com/
Remember, Tucker played mostly power forward in college. The man can rebound, score inside, and jump high. I say MARION/TUCKER at the power with AMARE/DIAW at the center - plus MARKS as bonus. You've got your 5 BIGS already:
Here is an article from DraftExpress from back in 2006 about Tucker playing the four:
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"Tucker has always been known as an explosive leaper with a power forward’s game and a small forward’s body. If his game against Marquette was any indication, he may have the tools to be effective at the power forward position in the NBA. Tucker created many of his shots off the dribble, and knows how to finish against defenders of all sizes inside, thanks to explosive leaping ability and good knowledge of how to use different angles of the backboard. Tucker’s jumping ability combined with good body control give him a chance to finish inside after taking the contact of a foul. His mid-range jumper looked very good as well, and he created a lot of very nice looks from the 12-15 foot range. Off the dribble, Tucker is deceptive with a series of head-fakes and speed changes he uses to get away from the defender. Tucker started his career playing mostly inside, and still has the ability to score on defenders with his back to the basket."
source: http://www.draftexpress.com/
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YouJustGotSUNSD
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Dantoni would rather play a center or a real PF than a rookie
dodie53
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do DA hate rookies?
Here is the problem:
We want to have a fluid and fast game, so we play smaller guys. Playing smaller guys only encourages the other team to do isolation post ups. Isolation post ups and the fouls that ensue slow down the game.
Thus we have accomplished little outside of giving the other team a free throw and rebounding edge.
Marion's ability to defend the 4 is an aberration for players his size, not the standard. You can't just simply plug an even smaller player into that position and assume that they will succeed.
We want to have a fluid and fast game, so we play smaller guys. Playing smaller guys only encourages the other team to do isolation post ups. Isolation post ups and the fouls that ensue slow down the game.
Thus we have accomplished little outside of giving the other team a free throw and rebounding edge.
Marion's ability to defend the 4 is an aberration for players his size, not the standard. You can't just simply plug an even smaller player into that position and assume that they will succeed.
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