I’m Not the Only One Who Thinks They’re Tanking

[Stout]

Well yes and no. This team is in a flux. We have to know what we are getting Kyler before it won't be.
I don't mind them getting rid of D-Hop if it means he decided to healthy scratch himself.

They are--a bloody flux! A dark metaphor meaning we're in crappy shape

 

[DVontel]

its going to take a few years.

How do you know it’s going to take a few? How do you know it will not take much, much longer? You’re hellbent on wanting Kyler gone. Cool. But tell me why a massive loser franchise deserves any benefit of the doubt? Especially under a loser owner.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

How do you know it’s going to take a few? How do you know it will not take much, much longer? You’re hellbent on wanting Kyler gone. Cool. But tell me why a massive loser franchise deserves any benefit of the doubt? Especially under a loser owner.

im assuming its going to take a few years because of the lack of talent anywhere on the roster.

I cannot tell you why this loser franchise deserves the benefit of the doubt. They dont....im just riding the hope train right now. lol

 

[kerouac9]

well thats my whole point, instead of investing long term in mediocrity at a couple positions, you need to tear it down and start over and upgrade starters and depth. its going to take a few years. Kyler will not be on the cardinals next playoff team

You're not going to have 15 Pro Bowlers on your roster. A really good draft will reap you three starters. That's why it's important to retain your proven starters/starting-caliber players through at least their second contract and your Pro Bowlers/All pros into their third.

Zach Allen and Byron Murphy will be peaking as players at the time (2024 and 2025) most here are expecting us to return to relevance. They don't have to be the best players on your defense (although they'd be among the top three players on the 2023 defense), but if Zach Allen is your fifth-best player, you're probably in pretty good shape.

Here's the contract breakdown of the home-grown players on the 2022-23 Philadelphia Eagles that is apparently the homegrown talent avatar:

Offense:
Jalen Hurts, QB: First contract, third year.
Miles Sanders, RB: First contract, fourth year.
Devonta Smith, WR2: First contract, second year.
Quez Watkins, WR3: First contract, third year.
Dallas Goedert, TE: Second contract, second year.
Jordan Mialata, OT: First contract, third year.
Lane Johnson, OT: Second contract, fourth year(?).
Isaac Seumalo, OG: Second contract, third year.
Landon Dickerson, OG: First contract, second year.
Jason Kelce, OC: Fifth contract, first year.

Defense:
Josh Sweat, EDGE: Second contract, second year.
Fletcher Cox, DT: Third contract, first year.
T.D. Edwards, LB: First contract, fourth year.


IMO, Murphy and Allen are roughly on the Zach Goedert/Isaac Seumalo/Josh Sweat tier of players.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

They are--a bloody flux! A dark metaphor meaning we're in crappy shape

For this year, sure. This team has the chance to be relevant in 2-3 seasons if they do it right.

 

[phillycard]

Well I’ll defend them,

we went undefeated for a good portion of last season, what changed? well attitude changed, I don’t think we’re as bad as all day, and I believe cards are more probable then not to be better then we have been since, what that looks like , I’m not sure, but hope we run the damn ball, and settle down the crap of the last 2 decades.

You mean two seasons ago, yes?

 

[Harry]

The difference is intent and it is an important distinction.
We are not likely to field a great team this season nor to win a lot of games. But i agree with Bob...the actual intent is a teardown and rebuild. A frame off restoration...they are taking the military approach of tearing it down in order to control the form as it is rebuilt.
It suxx as a fan. But it is necessary. My only huge concern is Mike. If he remains the meddling bungling idiot he has been made out to be we will not likely see long term benefits.
If thats the case then the process is pointless.

I understand that thinking but why were virtually no functional free agents signed?

 

[kerouac9]

I understand that thinking but why were virtually no functional free agents signed?

I'm playing a little bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we did sign some functional free agents:

Kelvin Beachum will likely be no worse than our 7th OL
Kyzir White is our starting ILB
Will Hernandez is likely starting at one guard spot
Hjalte Froholdt is likely our starting center
Antonio Hamilton is likely a starting corner
Zach Pascal is likely a starting WR

Your guy Dennis Daley played over 90% of the snaps for Tennessee last year. It's honestly crazy that he's not coming up in the conversation more. Elijah Wilkinson played over half the snaps in Atlanta last year. This could be the deepest offensive line we've had in a while.

 

[HairZach]

I'm playing a little bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we did sign some functional free agents:

Kelvin Beachum will likely be no worse than our 7th OL
Kyzir White is our starting ILB
Will Hernandez is likely starting at one guard spot
Hjalte Froholdt is likely our starting center
Antonio Hamilton is likely a starting corner
Zach Pascal is likely a starting WR

Your guy Dennis Daley played over 90% of the snaps for Tennessee last year. It's honestly crazy that he's not coming up in the conversation more. Elijah Wilkinson played over half the snaps in Atlanta last year. This could be the deepest offensive line we've had in a while.

Daley has the highest sack percentage allowed of any OL in the past 9 years (with at least 300 snaps). He is considered to be the worst tackle in the league by all metrics. We better hope he doesn't have to play.

 

[Stout]

For this year, sure. This team has the chance to be relevant in 2-3 seasons if they do it right.

Mm, I say Monti's FA choke job pushes that back to year 3 at least. I'm hoping he does a 180 and does next year's FA period right.

 

[oaken1]

I understand that thinking but why were virtually no functional free agents signed?

most of them sucked?? I wanted Allen Lazard but he went to the Jets to help lure arod... but who else was really worthy of a free agent contract....considering the staff is looking for self motivated team players ... there really werent any to speak of.... I mean, we could certainly use Donkey Kong... but other than being old he is notoriously one of the dirtiest players in the past 30 years... you think they want that guy mentoring youngsters?

 

[daves]

Teams who take on his contract in 2024 will have the following cap hits, based on pure yearly cash due:

2024 - 38.85 M
2025 - 32.6 M
2026 - 42.5 M
2027 - 36.3 M
2028 - 46.35 M (note - there's an out after 2027 with no dead cap money left)

Not sure about all of your numbers, but it appears that you're only counting his $850,000 per-game roster bonuses once per season. Adding another 16 of those per year increases those numbers by $13.6M per year for the duration of the contract!

Of course a new team would re-do his contact at some point... but then, why not just wait for the Cardinals - who are presumably salivating over the rookie QB they'll take with the top-2 pick that Kyler helped them earn - to cut him?

Is anyone envisioning a bidding war over the oft-injured QB coming off yet another disappointing season with that contract?!

 

[HairZach]

Not sure about all of your numbers, but it appears that you're only counting his $850,000 per-game roster bonuses once per season. Adding another 16 of those per year increases those numbers by $13.6M per year for the duration of the contract!

Of course a new team would re-do his contact at some point... but then, why not just wait for the Cardinals - who are presumably salivating over the rookie QB they'll take with the top-2 pick that Kyler helped them earn - to cut him?

Is anyone envisioning a bidding war over the oft-injured QB coming off yet another disappointing season with that contract?!

Carson Wentz had worse injury history and was traded for a 1st after one of the worst seasons I have ever seen. Kyler has shown much more than Wentz and has more potential; there will be buyers. Washington and Atlanta would reasonably be considered contenders with Kyler.

 

[daves]

Carson Wentz had worse injury history and was traded for a 1st after one of the worst seasons I have ever seen. Kyler has shown much more than Wentz and has more potential; there will be buyers. Washington and Atlanta would reasonably be considered contenders with Kyler.

Reasonable comparison... but IIRC, there were only two years @ $28M per year remaining on his contract, and the Colts immediately regretted that move and traded him away - not a very positive precedent for any team with interest in Murray.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

most of them sucked?? I wanted Allen Lazard but he went to the Jets to help lure arod... but who else was really worthy of a free agent contract....considering the staff is looking for self motivated team players ... there really werent any to speak of.... I mean, we could certainly use Donkey Kong... but other than being old he is notoriously one of the dirtiest players in the past 30 years... you think they want that guy mentoring youngsters?

There were no players in FA that could possibly fit our needs moving forward, either in the short term or the long term?

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If that's the case, why not just keep your young and improving FA's? Does anyone fit the model moving forward?

 

[oaken1]

There were no players in FA that could possibly fit our needs moving forward, either in the short term or the long term?

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If that's the case, why not just keep your young and improving FA's? Does anyone fit the model moving forward?

who would you have signed?

 

[Stout]

There were no players in FA that could possibly fit our needs moving forward, either in the short term or the long term?

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If that's the case, why not just keep your young and improving FA's? Does anyone fit the model moving forward?

Yeah, seriously.

 

[Stout]

who would you have signed?

There it is, the auto response. When the team blanket says "No thanks" to FA, any objection to this approach must be justified with stating who we would have signed, which will then be picked apart.

It's not a "who would we have signed?" It's a "why wouldn't there be any single player in the league worth more than a 1-year contract for us?"

No one with any hint of rationality can say there were literally zero FAs this year that would help this team's rebuild.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

who would you have signed?

I would have been perfectly comfortable with both the Allen and Murphy deals to start - those are the guys you desperately need to retain! If we just did that, we'd be in a much better roster position moving forward.

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - that there were no players in FA worthy of a contract? That's obviously absurd.

 

[Chopper0080]

There it is, the auto response. When the team blanket says "No thanks" to FA, any objection to this approach must be justified with stating who we would have signed, which will then be picked apart.

It's not a "who would we have signed?" It's a "why wouldn't there be any single player in the league worth more than a 1-year contract for us?"

No one with any hint of rationality can say there were literally zero FAs this year that would help this team's rebuild.

And next year's FA class does not look great either. So I am wondering where all of this cap savings is going to be spent.

 

[Dan H]

I would have been perfectly comfortable with both the Allen and Murphy deals to start - those are the guys you desperately need to retain! If we just did that, we'd be in a much better roster position moving forward.

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - that there were no players in FA worthy of a contract? That's obviously absurd.

It takes two to tango, though. Allen and Murphy might not have taken those contracts from AZ.

 

[kerouac9]

And next year's FA class does not look great either. So I am wondering where all of this cap savings is going to be spent.

more dead cap! We’re only in the top third for cap money in 2024

 

[oaken1]

There it is, the auto response. When the team blanket says "No thanks" to FA, any objection to this approach must be justified with stating who we would have signed, which will then be picked apart.

It's not a "who would we have signed?" It's a "why wouldn't there be any single player in the league worth more than a 1-year contract for us?"

No one with any hint of rationality can say there were literally zero FAs this year that would help this team's rebuild.

i have asked four people in 2 weeks... everybody wants to bitch but nobody has any suggestions as to which players we should have signed. I clearly stated the only guy I really wanted was Allen Lazard... but the Jets got him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

And next year's FA class does not look great either. So I am wondering where all of this cap savings is going to be spent.

You never know when a player like D-Hop would be cut as well. He would be a great get for those with cap space.

 

[oaken1]

I would have been perfectly comfortable with both the Allen and Murphy deals to start - those are the guys you desperately need to retain! If we just did that, we'd be in a much better roster position moving forward.

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - that there were no players in FA worthy of a contract? That's obviously absurd.

I semi agree on allen and Murph..... but it looks like allen liked the system he was in so he followed his coach.
and its not obviously absurd thank you. its obviously absurd to assume that players are plug and play. its obviously absurd to think all these free agents are worth what they are asking for. when the team/staff that knows them best, the team they have been playing for, obviously feels they aint worth it...or they would not be free agents in the first place...with few exceptions.