I’m Not the Only One Who Thinks They’re Tanking

ASUCHRIS

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It takes two to tango, though. Allen and Murphy might not have taken those contracts from AZ.
Maybe not, but until we get out of the cycle of letting the majority of our good players leave town without signing a second contract, we'll constantly be relying on FA.

Success isn't going to be only through the draft, only through retaining our own, only FA...we're going to need to marry those concepts in a successful way, and so far Monti hasn't shown much at all in at least 2 of the 3.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Exactly. Essentially just opting out of free agency for a year is just insanity to me. I get the tear down, I get the accumulation of picks, but I don’t get passing on an entire class of players that may help in the subsequent seasons.
Those players might win you a game or two.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I semi agree on allen and Murph..... but it looks like allen liked the system he was in so he followed his coach.
This is an excuse. Good teams find a way to retain their young and improving talent. If we want to be a good team, we need to start acting like it, and stop making excuses.

and its not obviously absurd thank you.
Yes, it's absurd to state that there were no FA's that could have helped our team. We have to get good at finding younger guys that other teams failed to develop.
its obviously absurd to assume that players are plug and play.
You're saying there weren't any players that could come in and play right away? Ignoring the fact the incumbents are learning a new system too, many of our players are eminently replaceable.
its obviously absurd to think all these free agents are worth what they are asking for.
Every FA is overpaid, ok.
 

Stout

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i have asked four people in 2 weeks... everybody wants to bitch but nobody has any suggestions as to which players we should have signed. I clearly stated the only guy I really wanted was Allen Lazard... but the Jets got him.
Absolutely irrelevant and you're better than that. Lazy argument. We as posters and fans don't have to have a fully viable plan to run the FO to see that Monti signed no one for more than a 1-year nothing burger deal in FA. We also don't have to have a viable plan to run the FO to know there are clearly players out there that fit the mold for us. Trying to discredit an argument based on posters not having a viable plan to run the FO is simply a lack of debating skills akin to repeating "nuh uh" over and over again.
 

Dr. Jones

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who would you have signed?
Personally, I am quite positive that a few ILB's that are high intensity special teamers were left on the open market for other teams to pick over. We had the money but not the balls to go all-in at a position of strength #IfYouKnowWhatI'mSayin
 

Chopper0080

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i have asked four people in 2 weeks... everybody wants to bitch but nobody has any suggestions as to which players we should have signed. I clearly stated the only guy I really wanted was Allen Lazard... but the Jets got him.
I feel like you could just go back to the free agency thread and look at all of the names people wanted.
 

Chopper0080

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Those players might win you a game or two.
Sure. And in 2024 you sign a couple more guys who can win you a game or two. Now you are at four games. Winning in the NFL is not a switch that can be flipped. There is a reason some organizations are historically bad. A lot of that is have things other than winning games as your main priority.
 

Chopper0080

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What is funny is that those who are arguing against FA signings are failing to realize that if you aren't re-signing your own players and drafting a bunch of cheap players, the only way to spend your cap is over-spending on free agents.
 

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Absolutely irrelevant and you're better than that. Lazy argument. We as posters and fans don't have to have a fully viable plan to run the FO to see that Monti signed no one for more than a 1-year nothing burger deal in FA. We also don't have to have a viable plan to run the FO to know there are clearly players out there that fit the mold for us. Trying to discredit an argument based on posters not having a viable plan to run the FO is simply a lack of debating skills akin to repeating "nuh uh" over and over again.
So. You are open to the possibility, even probability, that Monti has a plan. But that those of us on the outside looking in who are working with less information just dont know what it is.
 

oaken1

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Absolutely irrelevant and you're better than that. Lazy argument. We as posters and fans don't have to have a fully viable plan to run the FO to see that Monti signed no one for more than a 1-year nothing burger deal in FA. We also don't have to have a viable plan to run the FO to know there are clearly players out there that fit the mold for us. Trying to discredit an argument based on posters not having a viable plan to run the FO is simply a lack of debating skills akin to repeating "nuh uh" over and over again.
Nuh-uuuuuh
 

dreamcastrocks

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Sure. And in 2024 you sign a couple more guys who can win you a game or two. Now you are at four games. Winning in the NFL is not a switch that can be flipped. There is a reason some organizations are historically bad. A lot of that is have things other than winning games as your main priority.
I agree with what you are saying, I would just wait until next year to start the process. Hopefully two more picks in the top 5 in next year's draft set this team up for the future.
 
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I think it’s important to consider the role free agents can play in a rebuild. Leadership, especially by example, is critical for a successful rebuild. It’s likely why they want to keep Baker. The offensive leader is up in the air unless Murray steps up. They could have improved things by signing a vet or two. They didn’t need to be stars, just competent players who play hard. As it is, I’m worried about developing the younger players.
 

oaken1

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I think it’s important to consider the role free agents can play in a rebuild. Leadership, especially by example, is critical for a successful rebuild. It’s likely why they want to keep Baker. The offensive leader is up in the air unless Murray steps up. They could have improved things by signing a vet or two. They didn’t need to be stars, just competent players who play hard. As it is, I’m worried about developing the younger players.
A guy like Kazir White maybe?
 

kerouac9

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I think it’s important to consider the role free agents can play in a rebuild. Leadership, especially by example, is critical for a successful rebuild. It’s likely why they want to keep Baker. The offensive leader is up in the air unless Murray steps up. They could have improved things by signing a vet or two. They didn’t need to be stars, just competent players who play hard. As it is, I’m worried about developing the younger players.
I think Conner, Pascal, and Ertz are supposed to fill this role.
 

Stout

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So. You are open to the possibility, even probability, that Monti has a plan. But that those of us on the outside looking in who are working with less information just dont know what it is.
Nice dodge. Am I to take it by this dodge that you are open to the possibility that we can recognize a FA nothing burger without having to be a GM ourselves?

Oh, he has a plan. We're seeing it. It's just a bad plan.
 

Stout

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I agree with what you are saying, I would just wait until next year to start the process. Hopefully two more picks in the top 5 in next year's draft set this team up for the future.
And that would be inexcusable, because you don't just punt on seasons for absolutely no reason. None. A "Wait until next year to fully start a rebuild" mentaly gets you a losing franchise. Or, rather, perpetuates one. I mean, here's proof positive you're in support of punting on FA. "Wait until next year." Oof.
 

dreamcastrocks

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And that would be inexcusable, because you don't just punt on seasons for absolutely no reason. None. A "Wait until next year to fully start a rebuild" mentaly gets you a losing franchise. Or, rather, perpetuates one. I mean, here's proof positive you're in support of punting on FA. "Wait until next year." Oof.
There are plenty of reasons.
We have an owner that is cheap, and yet somehow just eat HC/GM salaries, as well as D-Hop.
We have a mobile QB going through an ACL injury.
We irreparably suck more than a single FA will fix. I know you know that.
 

Stout

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There is plenty of reason. We irreparably suck more than a single FA will fix. I know you know that.
...and we're not allowed to sign FAs that will help us past year 1? Clearly we're not going to fix it all in one FA period. If we don't even try to start, how do you expect to fix it in a single FA next offseason?
 

dreamcastrocks

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...and we're not allowed to sign FAs that will help us past year 1? Clearly we're not going to fix it all in one FA period. If we don't even try to start, how do you expect to fix it in a single FA next offseason?
Not allowed? He isn't banned from spending, he just doesn't want to. I don't really blame him either.

Let's say they bring in a good or marquee free agent this year, and their win total takes them from 3 to 4/5 wins this next season. That could be enough to take the pick out of the top 3, maybe even the top 5. Would that one free agent be worth a potential blue chip, franchise altering player?
 

Stout

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Not allowed? He isn't banned from spending, he just doesn't want to.
Let's say they bring in a good or marquee free agent this year, and their win total takes them from 3 to 4/5 wins this next season. That could be enough to take the pick out of the top 3, maybe even the top 5. Would that one free agent be worth a potential blue chip, franchise altering player?
Ah, I see what you're driving at--if we sign someone good this year, we'll play our way out of a better draft pick. Let's roll with that, though, and look at next offseason. Now we have so many holes because of all these one-year contracts, and such a dearth of talent, that one FA period and one draft aren't going to be enough to get us into the playoffs or really hope to get there. Now we're screwed for two years instead of three.

If you're rebuilding, you have to at least try to rebuild. We were never going to be good this year no matter what. I'd have preferred moves with the aim of making us good next year. I don't think we made those moves. If we picked at #4 next year instead of #1, let's say, because we signed some foundational talent, fine. At least we'd be primed to compete again.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Ah, I see what you're driving at--if we sign someone good this year, we'll play our way out of a better draft pick. Let's roll with that, though, and look at next offseason. Now we have so many holes because of all these one-year contracts, and such a dearth of talent, that one FA period and one draft aren't going to be enough to get us into the playoffs or really hope to get there. Now we're screwed for two years instead of three.

If you're rebuilding, you have to at least try to rebuild. We were never going to be good this year no matter what. I'd have preferred moves with the aim of making us good next year. I don't think we made those moves. If we picked at #4 next year instead of #1, let's say, because we signed some foundational talent, fine. At least we'd be primed to compete again.
I get what you are saying too, but who knows.

The reasoning may be simple to Michael sitting in his mansion somewhere. Spend many millions in FA and still suck this year, or spend next to nothing and still suck. One of those choices is going to save a lot of money.
 

Stout

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I get what you are saying too, but who knows.

The reasoning may be simple to Michael sitting in his mansion somewhere. Spend many millions in FA and still suck this year, or spend next to nothing and still suck. One of those choices is going to save a lot of money.
I think we're getting to the heart of it now. Not that I think it's as simple as MB is screwing Monti by withholding money. More like MB never wanted to spend and sold Monti (or was in part sold by Monti) on a strategy where they just sit on their cash for this FA period. Either way, it just plain sucks and is bush league ball. When people reference the phrase "poverty franchise," this is why.

Good looking out pointing out this likely reasoning :thumbup:
 

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Nice dodge. Am I to take it by this dodge that you are open to the possibility that we can recognize a FA nothing burger without having to be a GM ourselves?

Oh, he has a plan. We're seeing it. It's just a bad plan.

The NEP GM plan is to not get fired for as long as possible. If the team wins on the field? That's a side benefit.

There are plenty of reasons.
We have an owner that is cheap, and yet somehow just eat HC/GM salaries, as well as D-Hop.
We have a mobile QB going through an ACL injury.
We irreparably suck more than a single FA will fix. I know you know that.

The money Michael paid to DHop left his pocket three years ago. He actually saved a whole bunch of cash by releasing Hop.

Not allowed? He isn't banned from spending, he just doesn't want to. I don't really blame him either.

Let's say they bring in a good or marquee free agent this year, and their win total takes them from 3 to 4/5 wins this next season. That could be enough to take the pick out of the top 3, maybe even the top 5. Would that one free agent be worth a potential blue chip, franchise altering player?

LOL. Or Paris Johnson, Jr. :lame:
 
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