I Don't Blame Keim

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Harry believes it, too. I know because I was having a conversation immediately after Wilks was announced that Keim was ready to hire Bettcher in the role, and that Arians supported it. The person who knows (sorry to do this to you) said that Keim was surprised by the decision.

My opinion is that Michael walked away from talking to someone in Wilks who is clearly a very impressive person and decided that he needed to have him in the organization as "a leader of men." He just wasn't ready for the job.

Wait, are you saying you personally spoke to someone with that personal information? I am willing to accept that if that’s what you’re saying.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think anyone could've conceived of just how conservative and ineffective the offense would be as implemented by McCoy.
...dbs

Melvin Gordon says, “no one asked me, I could conceive of it . . . I lived it!”

 

[conraddobler]

Arians should of been kept as a consultant or moved to the front office, the dude knows people and is very well thought of.

Why wouldn't we do something like this? Other teams do this with HC who go out on their own terms?

He still knows football he just can't take the grind of coaching but he didn't just forget everything he knows either.

 

[kerouac9]

Paying Bradford his roster bonus to sit on the bench would have been totally stupid. The Cardinals are making the right move here. Many of us here suggested this be done.

The right short-term move, the wrong long-term move. Players understand that a team wants protection if you get injured. But if you stay healthy, they expect to be paid. He's not worse than Mike Glennon.

Wait, are you saying you personally spoke to someone with that personal information? I am willing to accept that if that’s what you’re saying.

Yes.

Arians should of been kept as a consultant or moved to the front office, the dude knows people and is very well thought of.

Why wouldn't we do something like this? Other teams do this with HC who go out on their own terms?

He still knows football he just can't take the grind of coaching but he didn't just forget everything he knows either.

No one wants the previous regime looking over their shoulder.

 

[conraddobler]

The right short-term move, the wrong long-term move. Players understand that a team wants protection if you get injured. But if you stay healthy, they expect to be paid. He's not worse than Mike Glennon.



Yes.



No one wants the previous regime looking over their shoulder.

Oh yeah right like we don't want to lose out on so many high quality candidates that would refuse to come here because of this... Oh wait there were NO HIGH QUALITY CANDIDATES THAT WOULD COME HERE to worry about having anyone looking over their shoulder.

Looks like if we'd of retained Arians he was saying hire someone else and if we had done that maybe things would be better?

Hate to break it to you but we are not really a sought after destination more of a gulag, anything would be helpful to offset this.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh yeah right like we don't want to lose out on so many high quality candidates that would refuse to come here because of this... Oh wait there were NO HIGH QUALITY CANDIDATES THAT WOULD COME HERE to worry about having anyone looking over their shoulder.

Looks like if we'd of retained Arians he was saying hire someone else and if we had done that maybe things would be better?

Hate to break it to you but we are not really a sought after destination more of a gulag, anything would be helpful to offset this.

We were a destination a year ago where players could come and improve their value and get a BIG contract here or elsewhere. That has value. Maybe it's squandered now.

 

[conraddobler]

We were a destination a year ago where players could come and improve their value and get a BIG contract here or elsewhere. That has value. Maybe it's squandered now.

I wasn't meaning it as harshly as it looks I apologize for that.

I get what you meant and it was a function of timing true. You are right as it played out there was no point in it and yes for the record that's about all squandered now.

Truth is I never believed in Arians total philosophy in terms of winning it all.

Winning it all starts with having a well above average line on both sides of the ball as well as a franchise QB, a couple playmakers on offense to go with several good serviceable weapons and a very good defense to round it out.

The Chiefs are very good this year but will not win it all unless they get help learning how to tackle.

It's very very hard to put all this together at once but there is an order to it and you usually start with the QB, although you can bring one in, we did that with Warner, it typically is the case that most places won't let go franchise QB's who are proven playoff winners.

So I'd keep drafting QB's until I got one then when that's taken care of you have to build the offensive line and with the salary cap and FA it's a maximization game to get the most value out of every possible move.

You can't keep studs at all positions that's impossible with the cap you can only build a team that is through schemes and roster moves better than all the rest of your competition and that starts with one vision from the top.

It's a very hard thing to do that several great coaches have never pulled off. We were never going to get Andy Reid who I'm not even that big a fan of but even he's out of our reach.

That means we have one option, get creative, dig deep in coaching trees and find gems that haven't bloomed yet, and I don't trust our GM nor our ownership to find that.

 

[Buckybird]

We were a destination a year ago where players could come and improve their value and get a BIG contract here or elsewhere. That has value. Maybe it's squandered now.

K9 I don’t think many if any top notch talent would want to come to Arizona & the dumpster fire we have right now unless you wayyyy overpay to get them.

Good post

 

[Buckybird]

Harry believes it, too. I know because I was having a conversation immediately after Wilks was announced that Keim was ready to hire Bettcher in the role, and that Arians supported it. The person who knows (sorry to do this to you) said that Keim was surprised by the decision.

My opinion is that Michael walked away from talking to someone in Wilks who is clearly a very impressive person and decided that he needed to have him in the organization as "a leader of men." He just wasn't ready for the job.

I am totally not ignoring you or Harry’s thoughts, connections or whatever.

Here’s the troubling part if true. Keim & Michael always used the words “Cardinals decisions” in almost everything they did. Of course BA was part of that equation as well.

Again if true shame on Michael because imo when the owner (non football guy) has that much say, we’re in deep deep doodoo going forward if it continues. I hope lessons are learned from this monumental failure at the highest level of this franchise

 

[pmacLean]

Oh scheme is a big problem I'm just saying in damn near every game there have been plays where it seemed like he could have gotten much more yardage than he did. Last night he was running harder, there was the play where he ran over the defender who had to leave with a neck problem, and a couple of other very tough physical runs. We weren't seeing that earlier in the year. he's not getting any help at all for sure, but he has not played as well as I expected he would. I don't think he's comfortable at all in the offense and it's really obvious he didn't get much work with Rosen we've seen a couple of collisions already, one nearly caused a safety, we've seen guys going the wrong way etc. It's a reminder that Josh starting was NOT the plan, at least not this early.

This is entirely ... words fail me ...
there was the play where he ran over the defender who had to leave with a neck problem, and a couple of other very tough physical runs.
what I saw, was for the VERY first time, the O-line actually gave him a few inches to squeeze through, so he actually gets about 3 more steps to work up speed, so when the collision comes, of course he looks great...

up until now, they not only did NOT give him a few inches, they were almost always pushed back a foot or 2 and he had no opportunity to accelerate , since he was hitting that wall (that our O-line let develope) before he had any speed at all...

I certainly hope he never reads and no one tells him any of this drivel about 'oh. he's just not the same this year'. Something is NOT the same and it sure as hell is not David Johnson. Unless he is really lucky and gets traded away he is going to waste what could have been a stellar career playing for this sad sack organisation ... like Larry, who would have long ago passed all the marks he is chasing had he played for ANY team except this bunch of loser clowns...

 

[TRW]

It is mind boggling that they signed a receiver, waived that receiver to bring up a PS CB and then that said CB wasn't even active last night. They keep this crap show at WR (except for Fitz and Kirk) and think they are set?

The LB situation is a holdover from the BA regime but to do NOTHING in the draft or elsewhere to get some ACTUAL LB bodies in there is puzzling and maddening. Please stop drafting players and making them into something they never were in college. Get some bona fide LBs PLEASE!

With Keim being a former OL

The OL is just terrible, period. Maybe he signs guys that are comparable to HIS talents when he played?

Sorry, I am rambling but last night was abysmal. The Broncos had given up, what, 700 yards in the last 2 games on the ground? Then, they just shut down the Cardinal's run game completely? McCoy is like the Vegas gambling addict that sits at a machine, keeps feeding it and thinks "It's got to pay off sometime!". Insanity.

I will watch, when I can, I am usually not home on Sunday and can't see them often. It sucks even worse that I have been able to see more games this season than normal and they've all been crappy.

But I root for this team in spite of their maddening inconsistencies and rare spurts of good seasons. I guess after 50+ years I always will.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think this is all his fault. Let's start from the premise that Steve Wilks wasn't his choice, and neither was Mike McCoy. I'm fairly certain on the first premise; I'm less so on the second. But let's say that Michael Bidwill chose Wilks and Wilks chose McCoy.

I don't think that Keim was responsible for:
1) The linebacker situation. Our linebackers are very bad! But I think that Wilks told Keim that he could work with Deone and Reddick.

2) Defensive scheme change. I refuse to believe that Wilks lied to everyone about scheme/system when he was hired. I think he hoped he could make it work, and there turned out to be more departure from the Bettcher version of the 3-4 than was anticipated.

3) David Johnson being bad. No one expected this.

4) Sam Bradford and his dumb contract. We couldn't have known that there'd be a rookie QB available to us. If your new coaching staff asks for Bradford instead of Keenum or Bridgewater, I think you have to give it to 'em.

Things I do hold Keim responsible for:
1) The wide receiver situation. Even with a veteran quarterback playing above-average football, Fitz, Chad Williams, and [Draft pick TBD] made little sense as a starting group, and there was no depth behind them. Putting your faith in Brice Butler and Greg Little to make this group better was a non-starter.

2) Releasing Honey Badger. I think we'll find out more about this in the next year if Wilks decides that Patrick Peterson isn't worth the salary. This team would be better with both Mathieu and Baker.

3) The Offensive Line. I know Harry likes to harp on this, but I disagree about "the Eggshell Line." Huge failures from Jonathan Cooper and (maybe) Jared Veldheer plus the inability of a handful of mid- and late-round draft picks to separate put this unit behind schedule. After next season, we're married to Justin Pugh and that's it.

Things I give Keim credit for:
1) The defensive line. I was wrong about Benson Mayowa. He's a starting-caliber player who was probably playing better than Markus Golden is right now. There is good depth on this unit, even if guys like Olson Pierre have regressed a little due to injury and the scheme change. Defensive line depth is one of the most difficult things to build in the NFL, and we have it.

2) The defensive secondary. I still think that this is one of the better groups in the league. We have good depth across the board, and if the defensive scheme can settle itself (and is actually fundamentally sound), this could be a good unit. Keim has developed expertise at reworking a secondary on the fly almost every season, and that's a pretty great skill in today's NFL.

The draft class is such a crap shoot, and we're not gonna know for a couple of years how Kirk fits in and whether Cole is actually good. THose look good right now, but there's lots of time.

There are some YUUUGE decisions to make next offseason.

Thoughts...

1-I know that some speculate that Bettcher was Keim's top choice. Is that what you are referring to?

2-I agree that McCoy was a Wilks choice.

3-agree on LB. Wilks has said that he felt they could be his Kuechly and Davis...which makes me think Wilks does not watch film.

4-If Wilks was Keim's choice, he is absolutely responsible for the scheme change. If not, I agree.

5-Again, if Wilks was Keim's choice, then McCoy's usage of DJ is on Keim. If not, no.

6-Keim signed Bradford. Keim is responsible because he put himself in a situation where he did not have one QB under contract. There was no other option signed, and on the roster. That desperation signing in on him.

7-Agree on WR though I didn't love the options available.

8-Mathieu hurts because money is suddenly not an issue (never really seems to be). That being said, I think I would still prefer to have him and Baker vs Baker and Tre Boston. We are eating dead money on Mathieu anyway.

9-Offensive line may be what ultimately gets Keim fired. So much money and draft picks invested and the unit is still bad.

10-DL has been ok. Mayowa looks like a nice find. Gunter is ok. Pierre and Nkemdiche are nice rotational players. Chandler Jones was a great acquisition.

11-I hate the constant instability of our DBs, but the unit has always found a way to work. I would love to see this unit with minimal turnover next year.

 

[Chopper0080]

The right short-term move, the wrong long-term move. Players understand that a team wants protection if you get injured. But if you stay healthy, they expect to be paid. He's not worse than Mike Glennon.



Yes.



No one wants the previous regime looking over their shoulder.

I hate how they are treating Bradford, and I never wanted them to sign him in the first place. It makes our organization look cheap, petty, and unwilling to be accountable.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is entirely ... words fail me ...
there was the play where he ran over the defender who had to leave with a neck problem, and a couple of other very tough physical runs.
what I saw, was for the VERY first time, the O-line actually gave him a few inches to squeeze through, so he actually gets about 3 more steps to work up speed, so when the collision comes, of course he looks great...

up until now, they not only did NOT give him a few inches, they were almost always pushed back a foot or 2 and he had no opportunity to accelerate , since he was hitting that wall (that our O-line let develope) before he had any speed at all...

I certainly hope he never reads and no one tells him any of this drivel about 'oh. he's just not the same this year'. Something is NOT the same and it sure as hell is not David Johnson. Unless he is really lucky and gets traded away he is going to waste what could have been a stellar career playing for this sad sack organisation ... like Larry, who would have long ago passed all the marks he is chasing had he played for ANY team except this bunch of loser clowns...

Aikman made the comment after that run that it was the Johnson they've been looking for all year. He specifically said he put his foot in the ground and cut. He's always been a very patient runner, waiting for the hole, in this offense that has not worked and we've seen several plays where it looks like there's a hole that he's going to get through for yards but he doesn't get through it.

I'm certainly not saying it's his fault the offense is terrible or that the OL is actually good. But I did see in several of the earlier games where it seemed like he was trying to take it wide or cut it back or do anything besides just put his foot in the ground and go forward and get what yardage was there. So he was getting no yards or losing a yard on a play where he could have gotten 2-3 yards by just making the cut and going. This system is not set up for his style of running, that's on the OC and it has to change, hopefully it now will.

I'm not naive, this offense without DJ would be much worse, Edmonds has not been good nor has anybody else, he's clearly the best RB we have by a mile. But he has not been as good this year as I thought he would be. I think he's dropped more passes in the first 6 games(none last night) than he did his first 3 years combined.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm honestly concerned about handing Keim a top 5 pick to work with.

Nonsense, I'm sure there's a safety playing for Bowling Green that nobody has heard of that we can convert to a defensive end very worthy of that pick.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

From where does this myth that Wilks wasn’t keim’s choice originate?

Probably the bartender at City Hall.

 

[cardpa]

If the Dline is a strength as K9 puts it then why not run 5 of them in there and play a 5-2-4?

 

[Chopper0080]

If the Dline is a strength as K9 puts it then why not run 5 of them in there and play a 5-2-4?

Too many mismatches created. This isn't high school.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Thoughts...

6-Keim signed Bradford. Keim is responsible because he put himself in a situation where he did not have one QB under contract. There was no other option signed, and on the roster. That desperation signing in on him.

It wasn't for lack of effort though. I feel they thought, like most of us that CP was 50/50, they tried to sign Gabbert to an extension last year during the season, but he thought he could get big money out on the FA market. I think your right about the desperation part, but I think it started after Cousins and Brees said no thanks.

 

[Gandhi]

Harry believes it, too. I know because I was having a conversation immediately after Wilks was announced that Keim was ready to hire Bettcher in the role, and that Arians supported it. The person who knows (sorry to do this to you) said that Keim was surprised by the decision.

My opinion is that Michael walked away from talking to someone in Wilks who is clearly a very impressive person and decided that he needed to have him in the organization as "a leader of men." He just wasn't ready for the job.

I don’t believe that, and honestly, I don't think it doesn’t sound very likely either. Maybe it’s just because I have a firm belief that Michael Bidwill is a very good owner, but at least I don’t think he is a liar and he has repeatedly said that he was in favor of collective Cardinals decisions, and no, he did not have to use those exact words any time. About two weeks after the hire of Wilks, Keim got a contract extension and I highly doubt that it was sort of a compensation for overruling him in hiring a new head coach, but rather because Michael Bidwill actually thought Keim was doing a good job. His role in hiring Bruce Arians probably played a part in that.

I am not at all saying that the view is wrong, but only that I don’t really believe it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t believe that, and honestly, I don't think it doesn’t sound very likely either. Maybe it’s just because I have a firm belief that Michael Bidwill is a very good owner, but at least I don’t think he is a liar and he has repeatedly said that he was in favor of collective Cardinals decisions, and no, he did not have to use those exact words any time. About two weeks after the hire of Wilks, Keim got a contract extension and I highly doubt that it was sort of a compensation for overruling him in hiring a new head coach, but rather because Michael Bidwill actually thought Keim was doing a good job. His role in hiring Bruce Arians probably played a part in that.

I am not at all saying that the view is wrong, but only that I don’t really believe it.

Hmm I’ve never known K9 to be a liar, I’m sure his conversation did happen. Then it depends upon the reliability of his source. Only K9 can be the judge of that, but again I tend to trust his instincts there too.

 

[kerouac9]

It’s easy to say all your decisions are based on consensus when you’re the guy at the top of the organization.

 

[Gandhi]

Hmm I’ve never known K9 to be a liar, I’m sure his conversation did happen. Then it depends upon the reliability of his source. Only K9 can be the judge of that, but again I tend to trust his instincts there too.

Yes, that’s why I wrote that I was not saying that the view was wrong, or that the conversation did never happen. Just that I looked at it differently.

 

[Gandhi]

It’s easy to say all your decisions are based on consensus when you’re the guy at the top of the organization.

Yes, and there is a lot of other things that are easy to say or do when you are the top guy. It’s not always a good idea to do it, though.

 

[NJCardFan]

Not blaming Keim would be like not studying for an exam but claiming it wasn't your fault you failed.