I don't get it.

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Maybe you’re just not reading it right. Which is fine, but you’ve been taking things personally a lot lately, adding to the growing animosity we have towards one another on this board. Merry Christmas and Happy Hannakuh!
I think I’m pretty justified if someone mischaracterizes my words. That’s essentially lying about what I’ve said. I’d hope everyone in this board would take that personally. And I don’t think we have growing animosity on this board. Sheesh I think you and I used to be at each other throats.
Slin’s the only one around here that I think purposefully acts the ass. All of us are either prone to hyperbole or sarcasm, both of which stir the pot unnecessarily. But I don’t see a lot of mean-spiritedness.

And a very happy holidays to you and your loved ones!
 

Cheesebeef

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I personally don't think an entire post accusing Ouchie of being one of the problems why this board has so much animosity does much to tamp down the animosity... even when the end of that post wraps itself in a "Happy Holidays" message after the blast.

But that's just me.
 

Chaplin

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I personally don't think an entire post accusing Ouchie of being one of the problems why this board has so much animosity does much to tamp down the animosity... even when the end of that post wraps itself in a "Happy Holidays" message after the blast.

But that's just me.
Yes that’s you all right. :)

It’s a generalization about the board. You don’t agree? Instead of talking about the issues, people nowadays tend to ridicule the poster instead.

Accuse accuse accuse. That’s the spirit!
 

JCSunsfan

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Sorry. Defensive of what people say on this board. I hate when people mischarcterize what I, or anyone else in this board, says. Hair trigger. All good.
I don’t blame you about that, I don’t like it either.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yes that’s you all right. :)

It’s a generalization about the board. You don’t agree? Instead of talking about the issues, people nowadays tend to ridicule the poster instead.

Accuse accuse accuse. That’s the spirit!
Uh chap, here’s your exact quote:

“. . . you’ve been taking things personally a lot lately, adding to the growing animosity we have towards one another on this board”

That’s not a generalization, that’s a shot directly at me. I chose to ignore it. But don’t deny you did it.
 

sunsfan88

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That’s because they are responding to the fanboys calling Doncic Larry Bird, and you’re taking it personal when someone disagrees.
There’s Ayton fanboys calling Ayton David Robinson and that’s even worse. And I’m not taking anything person, I don’t even post on this forum much. I just kickback and get a chuckle out of the Ayton homeristic posts here.

And no I don’t think Ayton’s a bust and I think he’s gonna be a very good player in the future.

But seeing the need to bash Doncic because of people feeling insecure about Ayton is somewhat humorous to me.
 

sunsfan88

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I think I’m pretty justified if someone mischaracterizes my words. That’s essentially lying about what I’ve said. I’d hope everyone in this board would take that personally. And I don’t think we have growing animosity on this board. Sheesh I think you and I used to be at each other throats.
Slin’s the only one around here that I think purposefully acts the ass. All of us are either prone to hyperbole or sarcasm, both of which stir the pot unnecessarily. But I don’t see a lot of mean-spiritedness.

And a very happy holidays to you and your loved ones!
You are not adding to animosity on this board. That itself is a ridiculous claim.

And I don’t think he’s the guy in charge to decide which posters are taking things personally and which aren’t.

There’s actually quite a bit of irony in it as well.
 

Chaplin

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You are not adding to animosity on this board. That itself is a ridiculous claim.

And I don’t think he’s the guy in charge to decide which posters are taking things personally and which aren’t.

There’s actually quite a bit of irony in it as well.
Geez, and here you prove my point.
 

SirStefan32

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There’s Ayton fanboys calling Ayton David Robinson and that’s even worse. And I’m not taking anything person, I don’t even post on this forum much. I just kickback and get a chuckle out of the Ayton homeristic posts here.

And no I don’t think Ayton’s a bust and I think he’s gonna be a very good player in the future.

But seeing the need to bash Doncic because of people feeling insecure about Ayton is somewhat humorous to me.

I think that outside of one extreme outlier, people are no longer bashing Doncic. That was before the season. Many of the posters who claimed he was going to be a bust have admitted they were wrong. Now it's changed to "Well, he is good, but he is not going to get much better. He is fat, his team lost a few games" and similar stuff. When he gets in better shape and starts averaging 22, 8, and 8, it's going to change to something else, probably "Well, Ayton is a better individual player" or something, but in fairness to a lot of anti-Doncic folks, most of them at least admit he is a good player now.
 

sunsfan88

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I think that outside of one extreme outlier, people are no longer bashing Doncic. That was before the season. Many of the posters who claimed he was going to be a bust have admitted they were wrong. Now it's changed to "Well, he is good, but he is not going to get much better. He is fat, his team lost a few games" and similar stuff. When he gets in better shape and starts averaging 22, 8, and 8, it's going to change to something else, probably "Well, Ayton is a better individual player" or something, but in fairness to a lot of anti-Doncic folks, most of them at least admit he is a good player now.
Funny thing is how him being out of shape has become a thing when he’s been playing non stop basketball for almost a full year or more because of the commitment to his national team.
 

sunsfan88

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For all the talk of Ayton vs Doncic, I think pretty soon we can talk about Booker vs Doncic instead.

Doncic is already a better defender his rookie season than Booker has been at any point of his career. He’s still a negative on that end but not awful like Booker. And even though his stats don’t perhaps reflect it his rookie season, Doncic is a more naturally gifted passer than Booker as well.

A core of Doncic/Ayton/Warren/Bridges/insane amount of cap space to find a decent 3 & D PG is certainly promising as well.
 

Cheesebeef

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Uh chap, here’s your exact quote:

“. . . you’ve been taking things personally a lot lately, adding to the growing animosity we have towards one another on this board”

That’s not a generalization, that’s a shot directly at me. I chose to ignore it. But don’t deny you did it.

to quote the thread title...

I don't get it.
 

Chaplin

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Uh chap, here’s your exact quote:

“. . . you’ve been taking things personally a lot lately, adding to the growing animosity we have towards one another on this board”

That’s not a generalization, that’s a shot directly at me. I chose to ignore it. But don’t deny you did it.
Not ignoring it. It’s true. I tend to agree with you on most things nowadays, it just seems like people are posting without thinking about how it affects the demeanor of the board. I’m just as guilty of it myself.

But whatever. The one thing I don’t want to get into is a pissing contest about pissing contests. So I take back what I said as I probably shouldn’t have singled you out. Apologize for that—it doesn’t affect the amount of great respect I have for you.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Not ignoring it. It’s true. I tend to agree with you on most things nowadays, it just seems like people are posting without thinking about how it affects the demeanor of the board. I’m just as guilty of it myself.

But whatever. The one thing I don’t want to get into is a pissing contest about pissing contests. So I take back what I said as I probably shouldn’t have singled you out. Apologize for that—it doesn’t affect the amount of great respect I have for you.
Cool. Merry Xmas to you and everyone on ASFN!
 

95pro

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For all the talk of Ayton vs Doncic, I think pretty soon we can talk about Booker vs Doncic instead.

Doncic is already a better defender his rookie season than Booker has been at any point of his career. He’s still a negative on that end but not awful like Booker. And even though his stats don’t perhaps reflect it his rookie season, Doncic is a more naturally gifted passer than Booker as well.

A core of Doncic/Ayton/Warren/Bridges/insane amount of cap space to find a decent 3 & D PG is certainly promising as well.

Before this thread and in the “ayton vs Doncic” thread I posed the same question.

Reason I asked was that it’s oranges to apples when it comes to ayton and Doncic.

It’s early and I agree with you.
 

slinslin

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For all the talk of Ayton vs Doncic, I think pretty soon we can talk about Booker vs Doncic instead.

Doncic is already a better defender his rookie season than Booker has been at any point of his career. He’s still a negative on that end but not awful like Booker. And even though his stats don’t perhaps reflect it his rookie season, Doncic is a more naturally gifted passer than Booker as well.

A core of Doncic/Ayton/Warren/Bridges/insane amount of cap space to find a decent 3 & D PG is certainly promising as well.

Booker has not been awful on defense this year.

Doncic is not even a net +/- positive on his team yet.
 

95pro

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Booker has not been awful on defense this year.

Doncic is not even a net +/- positive on his team yet.


Where'd you get the +/- from? I checked basketball reference a few days ago and I thought he was like +3 or something. I could be wrong so just wondering where you looked it up.
 

SirStefan32

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I don't know about +/-, but for anyone who has actually watched a few games, it is obvious that Mavs are Luka's team, much like the Suns are Booker's. It is also obvious that the kid is already an amazing player and Booker comparison is fair, in good ways and bad. They can both get good shots from anywhere on the floor, against anyone guarding them. Both force a little too much, and the more they facilitate, the better they facilitate, but their shooting percentage goes down.

Ignoring Booker's rookie season, the two look very similar when we look at Booker's second season and Luka's rookie year. Booker was a little bit older, but I think Luka's professional experience makes up for that, making this a fair comparison. Booker is a slightly better scorer, Luka is a better facilitator. They both turn the ball over a bit. Luka is slightly more efficient.

Can't figure out how to get the table to show up here, but here is the link:
http://bkref.com/tiny/t4aSw

Here is some information:

Booker vs. Doncic
Minutes: 35 vs. 32.4
Points: 22.1 vs. 19
Rebounds: 3.2 vs. 6.7
Assists: 3.4 vs. 5.1
Steals: 0.9 vs. 1.1
Turnovers: 3.1 vs. 3.3
FG%: 42.3% on 18.3 shots vs. 42.9% on 14.6 shots
3P% 36.3% on 5.2 shots vs. 35.4% on 6 shots
EFG%: 47.5% vs. 50.2%
FT%: 83.2% vs. 77% on 5.7 attempts for each
Fouls: 3.1 vs. 2

Now, I am not an expert on advanced stats, but here they are:
TS%: 53.7 vs. 55.7
PER: 14.6 vs. 17.7
Usage: 28.6% vs. 26.8%
Win Shares: 2 vs. 2.2
Box Plus Minus: -2.3 vs. 2.2

Bottom line is that Doncic is already an amazing player. There is just no rational way to argue that he is not.
 
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JCSunsfan

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There’s Ayton fanboys calling Ayton David Robinson and that’s even worse. And I’m not taking anything person, I don’t even post on this forum much. I just kickback and get a chuckle out of the Ayton homeristic posts here.

And no I don’t think Ayton’s a bust and I think he’s gonna be a very good player in the future.

But seeing the need to bash Doncic because of people feeling insecure about Ayton is somewhat humorous to me.
Man o man. There are people that say that he reminds them of David Robinson. They are talking about his frame, the way he carries himself and the way he moves. Just quit with the Ayton fanboys stuff and quit with mischaracterizing what other people say. I am with Ouchie on this. It really fries me when people do this.
 

Mainstreet

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SirStefan32

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Personally I like to compare the rookie class. Here are the first six picks by comparison.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...ohamed+Bamba&player_id6=bambamo01&idx=players


I think the Suns selection of Ayton #1 is shaping up nicely as it generally takes big men longer to reach their peak.

If Ayton picks up his defensive game... watch out.

If he can do what he did in OT last night every game for just ten minutes, Suns will be one scary team. I swear that watching him in OT was like watching Hakeem play.
 

AzStevenCal

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Personally I like to compare the rookie class. Here are the first six picks by comparison.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...ohamed+Bamba&player_id6=bambamo01&idx=players


I think the Suns selection of Ayton #1 is shaping up nicely as it generally takes big men longer to reach their peak.

If Ayton picks up his defensive game... watch out.

That Jaren Jackson retired in 2002 but otherwise, nice stats. It's clear to me that Doncic and Ayton are the class of this draft so far.
 

Mainstreet

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Jaren Jackson Jr. could ultimately be the best player in the draft. I remember thinking this when he worked out for the Suns although I was an ardent Ayton supporter. I know McDonough raved about him.

He has the whole package as a big man including a 3 point shot.
 

JCSunsfan

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Jaren Jackson Jr. could ultimately be the best player in the draft. I remember thinking this when he worked out for the Suns although I was an ardent Ayton supporter. I know McDonough raved about him.

He has the whole package as a big man including a 3 point shot.
You have to make a choice, and I still believe Ayton was the best choice. Luka was going to be good early. I am not sure where he will top out in his effectiveness. I had some concerns about his outside shooting, especially his declining stats. I thought Luka would be good but I definitely wanted Ayton. Ayton had the most readily measurable attributes combined with significant upside. JJJ had some glimpses of the ability to be great but was a bit more of a gamble. I still like a dominant rebounder as a big man and JJJ doesn't seem to do that.
 

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