I Got Bad News: The Trade Has Made Us Worse.

devilalum

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Here is another no "secret".....

With Marion the Suns wern't going to the finals. We were consistanly losing to good teams.

Shaq hasnt been playing most the season and is on a new team.

The physical and slowed down nature of the playoffs is more suited for Shaq than Marion



If the Suns dont make the playoffs and this experiment fails I could care less. The Suns were boring this season and not impressive...their playoffs would have been brief.

Better for the Suns to have tried and failed then to not try at all and stay with the status quo.


Everything you say is true. But if the Suns do flame out they're still stuck with Shaq's enormous contract for 2 more years after this one. If this is the end of the run its gonna take the Suns at least 6 years to rebuild.

They traded away their draft picks and they have no money to sign free agents. When Shaq and Nash are off the books the Suns will not be the books it may not be as easy as it used to be to get a good free agent.

The way I see it our only hope for staying competitive in the near future is to get a star with the ATL pick.

Wouldn't it suck if the Suns don't make the playoffs for the next 3 years? If this were to happen the KT trade will have to be considered one of the worst in NBA history.

Sincerely,
Chicken Little
 

Chaplin

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Let's not forget the lessons learned from Stephon Marbury. For every time we have an albatross contract and a losing record, there's always the New York Knicks. ;)
 

OldDirtMcGirt

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Amare is an offensive player that can dominate and get to the FT line. It's those who want him to morph into Ben Wallace and not score are the ones who are misguided, it's not going to happen, get over it.

P.S. Ben Wallace sucks now that he can't roid up anymore.

I don't want him to become Ben Wallace, but I don't think that it's too much to ask for him to develop some semblance of a back-to-the-basket game, and at least be adequate in man defense. I think that this once again goes to the coaching staff however, and not necessarily on Amare.
 

newfan101

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Let's not forget the lessons learned from Stephon Marbury. For every time we have an albatross contract and a losing record, there's always the New York Knicks. ;)

LOL. Wouldn't it be ironic if we traded Shaq for Marbury's expiring contract?
 

Covert Rain

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I don't want him to become Ben Wallace, but I don't think that it's too much to ask for him to develop some semblance of a back-to-the-basket game, and at least be adequate in man defense. I think that this once again goes to the coaching staff however, and not necessarily on Amare.

Amare has actually used a spin move to the basket that I have not seen before the Shaq trade. Hopefully, this means he is trying to expand his game.
 

Agloco

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There's definitely cause for concern. But it's early yet. You'll know after about 10 games whether or not this sinks the ship.
 

elindholm

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LOL. Wouldn't it be ironic if we traded Shaq for Marbury's expiring contract?

You know, I was actually thinking that earlier today. If the Suns were willing to take Curry on (maybe by including Diaw?), they could probably get it to work. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that Marbury would accept a small extension (MLE territory) to be the PG-pro-temp during the rebuilding years.
 

Covert Rain

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You know, I was actually thinking that earlier today. If the Suns were willing to take Curry on (maybe by including Diaw?), they could probably get it to work. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that Marbury would accept a small extension (MLE territory) to be the PG-pro-temp during the rebuilding years.

Except Marbury would demand he is the starting PG and remind everyone that he is the best PG in the NBA. Then when things go south he would make sure everybody knew it wasn't him. Besides Shaq isn't the problem. Can we trade D'Antoni for Marbury? At least in that scenario we could get a new coach.
 

Joe Mama

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This trade is not a failure. The coaching is a failure. I was never worried about Shaq fitting in himself as much as I was worried about D'antoni completely taking Shaq out of his game.

What the hell is O'neal doing in the high post 75% of the time? And now that Marion is gone, why isn't the offense run more through Amare? He can basically score at will and average 30-35 a night if he wanted too. But no, what do we see? Barbosa taking ******** layup after ******** layup, Bell bricking 3's over and over again, Amare not even touching the ball for 4,5,6 possessions at a time, and O'neal setting screens at the THREE POINT LINE.

There is absolutely no way I can defend D'antoni anymore. He is ruining this team with his "style." You put Nash, Amare, O'neal, Hill and to a lesser extent, Barbosa on any team with a real coach and you'd see a much better team.

So, for the next 2 years we'll get the pleasure of watching Shaq set screens at the 3pt line for $20 million a year, Nash aging rapidly but still playing 40 minutes a night, Amare never being used to his potential, Barbosa flinging the ball in the air praying that it goes in, and Bell hoisting up bricks.

Continuously feed Amare and O'neal in the post until the shooters at least start making some of their shots. Wear the opposing F / C's down and get them into foul trouble. That's all Phoenix really needs to do to be successful IMO. (Aside from actually trying to play defense - which I didn't even address in my post.)

I don't have a huge problem with Skinner's lack of minutes. I would like to see him some, but he's hardly a world stopper. His man defense didn't seem all that great to me, and I believe we were still getting killed on the boards with him in the game. Perhaps that's because he and Amare Stoudemire did not play much together. I can't remember now.

However I definitely agree with you regarding coach Mike's misuse of Shaquille O'Neal. I just don't understand it. Offense with Shaquille O'Neal and the game should be easy. The Phoenix Suns should try to push it every time they get the ball. And if they don't get a GOOD, easy shot off the transition the ball should go through shaq in the low post. Even when he does establish himself in the post now the guys feeding the ball are two quick to give up on him.

I've had to change the channel a few times in the last couple games because I was so pissed off about it.

Joe
 

DevonCardsFan

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Here is another no "secret".....

With Marion the Suns wern't going to the finals. We were consistanly losing to good teams.

Shaq hasnt been playing most the season and is on a new team.

The physical and slowed down nature of the playoffs is more suited for Shaq than Marion



If the Suns dont make the playoffs and this experiment fails I could care less. The Suns were boring this season and not impressive...their playoffs would have been brief.

Better for the Suns to have tried and failed then to not try at all and stay with the status quo.



Great post, before I past any judgemnet or make a ruling on this trade, lets first see what happens in the PLAYOFFS!!! Shaq and Amare's really come in handy come playoff time!! Because all these posts will look ********, if the Suns start clicking come playoff time and they make it too the finals. The Suns switched Amare to Marions position and Shaq to Amares position, this team only has what a 7-8 man Rotation, The Suns big 3 Nash, Marion and Amare, have played with each other, for a long time. Everything has switched up big time, Nash has been sucking, Shaq is coming back from injury and playing in a whole new system, Hill just started getting used to the system. Give this trade alot more time before yelling the sky is falling. This is not NBA 2K8 on X-Box, where you throw a bunch of guys on a team with big names and bam, the wins start pouring in. We are watching a work in progress, But come playoff time, You know the time that Marion always dissapears and starts refusing to guard the other teams big man, we will come to appreciate Shaq. When Amare is not in major Foul trouble, unlike 95% of the time last year in the playoffs, because Amare doesn't have to be the big man in the middle, we will come to appreciate Shaq.
 

BC867

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Perhaps that's because he (Skinner) and Amare Stoudemire did not play much together. I can't remember now.
You're right. Skinner was Amare's backup for awhile. He came in when Amare was in foul trouble. One big man at a time.

However I definitely agree with you regarding coach Mike's misuse of Shaquille O'Neal. I just don't understand it. Offense with Shaquille O'Neal and the game should be easy. The Phoenix Suns should try to push it every time they get the ball. And if they don't get a GOOD, easy shot off the transition the ball should go through shaq in the low post. Even when he does establish himself in the post now the guys feeding the ball are two quick to give up on him.

I've had to change the channel a few times in the last couple games because I was so pissed off about it.

Joe
Right on, Joe. Here's D'Antoni's quote about going back to the ol' Amare and Boris at Center routine.

What's the 'Skinny'?

"What about Brian?" the fan's sign asked Saturday night.

Suns center Brian Skinner did not play again. He has played two minutes in the past seven games. Skinner did struggle with a 12-game stretch of 8-for-39 shooting in January but did not lose his rotation spot until O'Neal's arrival.

"The reason that Brian, who I like, was playing was because he gave us toughness, rebounding and an inside presence," D'Antoni said. "That's Shaq. Now, we need running. We need to space the floor. When Amaré (Stoudemire) needs to move over, you've got Boris (Diaw). Shaq's taken his minutes up. You don't want to play the same way all the time. You want to switch gears."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0301sunsnb.html

D'Antoni acknowledges that Brian Skinner "gave us toughness, rebounding and inside presence." Then instead of taking the 5th Amendment, he sure incriminated himself. "You don't want to play the same way all the time. You want to switch gears."

So not only is he not using Shaq as an inside presence, he won't use Skinner to provide toughness and rebounding, as well as inside presence, when Shaq is on the bench, because "you want to switch gears".

Regardless of the Press reports about D'Antoni wanting Shaq here, he obviously doesn't want 48 minutes of "toughness and rebounding" and very little time of "inside presence".

If Mike D'Antoni cannot put aside everything his father taught him about small ball (a long time ago), it's time to put aside Mike D'Antoni.

He's counter-productive to the trade. He's counter-productive to our post-season success.

And if he thinks he's going to change his approach in Game 2 of a playoff series (as he did last season), he belongs in a rubber room.

How many times are we going to witness the same obsessive approach?

As my posts have shown, I share your anger, Joe, at how Shaq and Skinner have (not) been used since the trade.
 

pokerface

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Looks like someone just got bumpwned!


Nobody got owned at all. Everyone was complaining about some aspect of the team. If you wern't finding fault with something during their skid you had your head in the sand.


BURY THIS THREAD!
 

Agloco

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actually, that is wrong. The defending NBA champions, San Antonio Spurs, should have been eliminated by the Phoenix Suns last year. The Robert Horry fiasco and the subsequent ejections is the cause of failure.

If they could eliminate San Antonio, and San Antonio went on to win the championship vs Cleveland, then logic concludes the Suns would have been NBA Champions last year. Suns > Cleveland last year.


:lol:
 

passenger

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Well,I am a Suns fan,I would want us to be champion,but I still think we could have gotten Shaq with more different trade without giving Marion.
 

elindholm

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Well,I am a Suns fan,I would want us to be champion,but I still think we could have gotten Shaq with more different trade without giving Marion.

Well sure, the Suns could have given up Nash or Stoudemire instead. Otherwise there was no way to make the salaries work unless the Suns were prepared to completely gut the team.
 

arwillan

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Maybe Bell,Barbosa?

we trade Bell and then run who as our starting 2 guard? If we put barbosa there, then who is going to score off the bench for us? nobody. if we trade barbosa, we just lost almost all of our bench and one of our biggest offensive weapons. With bell being hurt so often, who would take his place as a starter if barbosa was gone? nobody. Horrible idea to trade those guys. Besides that, neither of them make the right amount to make the trade work.
 

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