I know we are playing bad but ...

[Sandan]

I'm slowly beginning to believe some of these games are really fixed. I been denying that for years, now I start to think that maybe there is truth to it.

The NFL wants their big money teams in the playoffs .... Period.

So many bogus calls/non calls and all at times to change the momentum.

Now that momentum is a freight train and nothing can help. So what do we see ? Calls on the Pats as they make no difference now.

 

[Stout]

I'm slowly beginning to believe some of these games are really fixed. I been denying that for years, now I start to think that maybe there is truth to it.

The NFL wants their big money teams in the playoffs .... Period.

So many bogus calls/non calls and all at times to change the momentum.

Now that momentum is a freight train and nothing can help. So what do we see ? Calls on the Pats as they make no difference now.

Baloney. We had one bad call on us early that took away a first down. That sucks, but if you can't overcome that you don't deserve to win a game. They missed a delay of game call, but the Pats threw an incomplete pass anyway. Those were the only bad calls early. Yeah, the officiating stinks, but don't you DARE try to let this team off the hook by crying foul. WE SUCK, and the Pats don't. I don't care if we did make the playoffs and played well earlier in the season, because we suck NOW.

 

[abomb]

Stupid.

 

[Cheesebeef]

persecution complex man lives!

 

[Sandan]

Go look at the damn game.

There were major bogus calls in the 1st qtr that either killed out chances or let the Pats of the hook.

Get a 1st down on the ground ... penalty on Card's ball goes back.

Sack Cassel, phantom penalty that nobody can find. Instead of 2 or 3 and long, not 1st and 10.

No it isn't about persecution, its about how the penalties start top show up on the Pats [and others] in the second half when the game is no longer in doubt, just to make the stats look better.

I'm not blind, I can see them playing badly DUH. But I can also see the heart go out of them a little more for every bogus call. I am also not suggesting we would have won, what I am suggesting is that the script was that the Pats MUST win.

Does anybody here actually suggest these games are called fairly ?

 

[Sandan]

persecution complex man lives!

So you are telling me this game is being officiated evenly ?

 

[Sandan]

Baloney. We had one bad call on us early that took away a first down. That sucks, but if you can't overcome that you don't deserve to win a game. They missed a delay of game call, but the Pats threw an incomplete pass anyway. Those were the only bad calls early. Yeah, the officiating stinks, but don't you DARE try to let this team off the hook by crying foul. WE SUCK, and the Pats don't. I don't care if we did make the playoffs and played well earlier in the season, because we suck NOW.

Baloney yourself.

I damn well know all you said, I know we would lose, I know that today the Pats are better than us.

But for you abomb and Cheese ... I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE OR COULD HAVE WON.

I'M SAYING THAT I AM BEGINNING TO THINK THAT SOMEBODY WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T.

Those two statements are not the same thing. The second one is NOT an excuse for why we lost or whining that we should have won.

I'm saying it appeared that they needed to give the big money patriots every advantage they could to win.

 

[Second Deck]

I will stand up for you Nidan. We have to fix the running game next year but taking the first down away early in the game was a killer. Took away any momentum we could have had. Totally screwed up the field position for the first half. You feel like the NFL needs to review every play when it is a third down play.

 

[Sandan]

And that penalty was totally bogus

 

[Cheesebeef]

Go look at the damn game.

There were major bogus calls in the 1st qtr that either killed out chances or let the Pats of the hook.

Get a 1st down on the ground ... penalty on Card's ball goes back.

Sack Cassel, phantom penalty that nobody can find. Instead of 2 or 3 and long, not 1st and 10.

No it isn't about persecution, its about how the penalties start top show up on the Pats [and others] in the second half when the game is no longer in doubt, just to make the stats look better.

I'm not blind, I can see them playing badly DUH. But I can also see the heart go out of them a little more for every bogus call. I am also not suggesting we would have won, what I am suggesting is that the script was that the Pats MUST win.

Does anybody here actually suggest these games are called fairly ?

right, and it wasn't a persecution complex when you thought Emmitt Smith was rooting for the Niners to beat the Cardinals because of his dislike for this team, even though as a Cowboy, his most hated rival was the... Niners.

 

[Sandan]

don't you DARE try to let this team off the hook by crying foul. WE SUCK, and the Pats don't. I don't care if we did make the playoffs and played well earlier in the season, because we suck NOW.

Just so we are clear.

I AGREE, WE SUCKED TODAY, now back to my question

I am not whining about how we should have won and the officials robbed us. Read what I said not what you interpreted it as.

 

[Sandan]

right, and it wasn't a persecution complex when you thought Emmitt Smith was rooting for the Niners to beat the Cardinals because of his dislike for this team, even though as a Cowboy, his most hated rival was the... Niners.

As I have no clue what you are talking about I'll put this down to "I must disagree with anything Nidan says"

 

[Duckjake]

I'll bet a lot of people doubting Nidan also never would have thought some Wall Street financier could pull off a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme fooling some of the smartest and wealthiest people in the US.

When it comes to business and especially big business you always have people wanting to rig the game.

This early flag stuff happens too often, and not just to the Car*s, to just be a coincidence. So either the fix is in or the refs have NBA star syndrome when it comes to certain teams.

 

[Sandan]

Tell you what how about this for a suggestion.

We are all pissed off right now and mutually very argumentative [myself included]. Lets table this discussion for 6 months. During that period I will see if I can't crunch some number from the basic data of when penalties occur and against what teams.

Then we can look at data vs arguing over emotions and motivations.

Right now I have no clue where to get the basic data from but I'm sure one of us can find it. I'm looking for game[ie year/season]/opponent/time[or qtr]/penalty and yds.

Then we can discuss facts not theories.

 

[PJ1]

Add this to the scheduling, travel and weather excuses and we have all bases covered.

 

[Kablansky]

When I watch the NBA I have seen blatant bias and badly called plays for years. When I watch the NFL I see the occational missed calls but nothing that reeks of malice. The Cardinals have been playing undisciplined football for 2 decades and now all of the sudden it's a conspiracy?

Let me tell you what you will find in your research, bad teams make more penalties and good teams are disiplined and make fewer. It's not rocket science any more than it's black helicopters and tinfoil hats.

 

[Sandan]

Nice sarcasm but my point was about distribution of penalties by qtr.

Oh and where did I say this was only relevant to the Cardinals

 

[Kablansky]

Nice sarcasm but my point was about distribution of penalties by qtr.

Bad teams make penalties, good team's don't. Not once person in the league would disagree with that. The ability to account for every possible variable would easily debunk any evidence you can show

Oh and where did I say this was only relevant to the Cardinals

You typed it and you referenced this game multiple times in your conspiracy theory. More over, as a Cardinals fan I would assume they are likely the only team you follow closely enough to have a formed opinion on this matter. I doubt you watch all 16 games of other teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bad teams make penalties, good team's don't. Not once person in the league would disagree with that



You typed it and you referenced this game multiple times in your conspiracy theory. More over, as a Cardinals fan I would assume they are likely the only team you follow closely enough to have a formed opinion on this matter. I doubt you watch all 16 games of other teams.

especially since he goes to 8 games a season.

I really think Cards season ticket holders have very little perspective on what happens in the rest of the league because they just aren't able to watch enough variety of football to make informed opinions... or maybe it's just Nidan.

 

[Sandan]

I don't have a theory, in fact I've been disputing this when other have said it for years.

But it sure seems like the penalty distribution over the course of a game is not random. That's why I was thing it might be worthwhile to analyze it if we can find the data.

Yes bad teams commit more penalties but do they commit them disproportionally in the 1st half, I would guess not. In fact I would guess they would be worse in the second half as they get more desperate.

The other quesiton is do big money teams [ie Giants, Cowboys, Redskins, Pats, Steelers for example] do the opposite and is there a correllation of these numbers when the playing teams like the Cardinals, Saints or Buffalo.

And to answer Cheese, yes I formed this opionion wtaching the Cardinals which I why I was suggesting more analysis might be interesting.

 

[Kablansky]

Oh and where did I say this was only relevant to the Cardinals

And to answer Cheese, yes I formed this opionion wtaching the Cardinals

???

 

[conraddobler]

Oh lighten up people you're both right.

The league does have it out for us and we do suck all at the same time.

Sometimes we lose because we suck and sometimes the bogus calls are a factor, today not so much.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I agree......The penalties these refs get away with calling is attrocious. How can they get away with it is my question? That call wasn't even close to hands in the face!!! It killed a 10 yd run...We were at the 46 yd line...and the game might have been different. I played sports both in High school and College....And that one play can change the game. The Cards I guarantee you came over to the bench and said who cares...we are in the playoffs and this is ridiculous. The Pats are like ok lets bury them...And they did......The problem is...when Refs can get away with Phantom calls...it does make it look fixed....

 

[Perfectionist]

Tell you what how about this for a suggestion.

We are all pissed off right now and mutually very argumentative [myself included]. Lets table this discussion for 6 months. During that period I will see if I can't crunch some number from the basic data of when penalties occur and against what teams.

Then we can look at data vs arguing over emotions and motivations.

Right now I have no clue where to get the basic data from but I'm sure one of us can find it. I'm looking for game[ie year/season]/opponent/time[or qtr]/penalty and yds.

Then we can discuss facts not theories.

Data cannot tell you if it was a bad call.

 

[Cards_Campos]

When I watch the NBA I have seen blatant bias and badly called plays for years. When I watch the NFL I see the occational missed calls but nothing that reeks of malice. The Cardinals have been playing undisciplined football for 2 decades and now all of the sudden it's a conspiracy?

Let me tell you what you will find in your research, bad teams make more penalties and good teams are disiplined and make fewer. It's not rocket science any more than it's black helicopters and tinfoil hats.

That is absolutely WRONG. Dallas lead the league in penalties for years and won 3 Super Bowls.....The Raiders were in the top 3 in penalties when they won the Super Bowl.....Penalties are subject calls...because technically you could call holding on every play.

Let me ask you...How many times have we been called with a late hit or unessessary roughness....and the announcers , fans and or reporters called questionable? To many not to be questioned?