I Know You Didn't Like My Cutler Suggestion But......

Russ Smith

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That 2005 Broncos team that went 13-3 was 3rd in scoring defense, 15th in yardage and 9th in DVOA. It happened, but not just because of their offense. As I said, the Broncos faltered because their defense declined. You're trying to pin it on Cutler, which isn't supportable.

I "constantly blame Palmer for problems here"? Justify THAT. I think that Palmer is now who he has always been, and that 18 games between 2014 and 2015 are anomalous. I don't think that either player is going to do much to make the players around him better (at least consistently).

I think Palmer's done; I'm not sure that Cutler is. I'd rather have Tannehill or someone younger, but that's not really a solution that's on the table. I think the team is going to roll with Palmer for another season; this conversation is pretty academic.


I'm not pinning anything on Cutler I'm saying he has never improved a team he's been on and that's the truth. Everywhere he has gone the team has either declined or held status quo at best.

Palmer got here and we improved, admittedly replacing Kolb, Skelton and Lindley wasn't exactly a big challenge but the point is he made this team better when he joined it. This years team I have no idea how we finish but my suspicion is we'd be better NEXT year, with Palmer than with Cutler. A big part of that should be obvious, even a veteran Palmer took more than 1 full season to get fully comfortable in the system because there are so many plays that are thrown before the WR makes his cut and if you aren't on the same page, it's an INT. Cutler if he came in would be playing with a whole new offense, it's almost a given he'd perform worse than Palmer has.

I'm basing the Palmer comments on him being a GOAT and repeated references to him playing badly. He's certainly not having a good year but neither would most QB's where 4 of the 5 WR's they get to throw to are simply not getting it done. Nelson is overmatched, John Brown is a shadow of himself physically, Jaron Brown is hurt, and Michael Floyd is apparently in need of a sports psychologist.

The reason Palmer needs to eventually be replaced is he'll be 37 next year. But if Cutler comes in at 34 and hopefully knows the system by 35 how much have we actually gained?

We'd be better off trying to fix Blake Bortles except that guys with that much of a hitch I think are unfixable. Every coach that has ever coached Cutler has had the same issue, at a certain point you realize it's not the coaches it is him.
 

Brian in Mesa

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I have faith that Cutler would complete more passes...to the other teams. SMH. Just say "No."
 

Beaver

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Has there ever been a perennial loser, like Cutler, that went to a new team and instantly lit up and took his team to the playoffs?
 

Russ Smith

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Has there ever been a perennial loser, like Cutler, that went to a new team and instantly lit up and took his team to the playoffs?


To be fair he's more of a 500 QB not a loser. And Jeff George is the answer to that question I mentioned him earlier. But it's very rare.
 

Russ Smith

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Palmer is not having a great year, by any means, but then again, you may be one of the few people on the board, that understand Palmer's last season was an exception to the norm. Palmer is a very, average quarterback, and it is not helping that four out of his five receivers are not playing anywhere near the level they have been, and yes, Palmer has nothing to do with Floyd, and Nelson's drops, or John Brown and Jaron Brown's health.

Yes and no, remember K9 said that before last season too, the prior year was an outlier he'll regress to the mean. Then he didn't and K9 kept silent and now he's struggling this year and K9 is bragging about so many people having been wrong when he was the one that openly predicted last season would not happen.

The problem with regression to the mean is football is a different beast, Qb's are so heavily influenced by so many other factors.

Last year Palmer was 35 TD 11 picks, great year, best ever for him, the prior year it was 11 and 3 before he got hurt, that's a 22 game stretch of 46 to 14 completing 63%. What was unusual last year was the YPA, 8.7, career high he's only topped 8 one other time in his career. That's an abnormally high YPA, an indication he had a great year, his receivers had a great year, and the push the ball downfield style worked.

He has always had that level of talent, his 2nd year as a starter(3rd year he sat as a rookie) he put up 32-12 on the Bengals and they went 11-5 and surprise they had really good Wr's that year, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Chris Henry, 4th in the NFL in scoring. It was 11 years ago but the point is he has had big seasons before, 28 and 13 the next year, then 26 and 20 and he got hurt. Last year was perfect we had a run game and healthy productive Wr's. This year we have a great run game but the WR's are not healthy and not productive.

2015 was a career year, nobody expected him to do that again, but the dropoff to this year is not just on him IMO, you can't run the system we run with a makeshift OL and beat up Wr's and then blame the QB when it doesn't work.

I'm as big an Aaron Rodgers fan as you'll find but I realize, he's an OUTLIER, so is Brady, there are very few guys that are that good that it doesn't really matter who the hell they play with. Rodgers 2 weeks ago people were saying what's wrong with him, he's got 27 TD's 7 picks 64% completion and he's been playing with a kickoff return guy at RB and another average at best OL. Nelson is good but Adams, Cobb those are good not great players but Rodgers is still so good he makes them look better than they are. The problem is there aren't that many Rodgers and Bradys out there.

As you said if it's Palmer's issue why all the drops, why the constant shots of Arians yelling at Floyd for running the wrong route or stopping. Ellington is playing so sparingly and when he's in, he looks like he wants no part of the ball at all, not looking, not being where Palmer thinks he should be. Maybe that's on Palmer, or maybe AE just flat isn't sharp or doesn't want the ball.

Cutler is simply not a viable solution, find a younger guy hopefully an actual young QB with a future. Put the pieces in place around him, Prescott looks amazing, now put him behind our OL with our WR's and ask yourself how good he'd look.

The biggest issue with Palmer beyond age is he's not mobile and with a bad OL it's becoming a bigger and bigger problem. I don't care if he can run or not I'm not a huge fan of running QB's but that he can't move enough to buy a few seconds and then complete the pass is a big issue now because the OL is so bad. That's what a guy like Rodgers or Prescott or Wilson brings.
 

Jetstream Green

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Tell you what, if Palmer is not our QB this coming season (and I think he will be and will actually play out his contract, he is one tough SOB), Cutler is pretty damn attractive as a starter compared to the mess we had between Warner and Palmer... plus guys with 'er' at the end of their last name seem to get us into the playoffs :)
 

cardpa

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Unless something drastic happens Palmer will be the QB in 2017. Only Palmer retiring or getting injured will change that. The problem with running guys like Palmer are QB is there is no long term consistency at the position. At some point they need to make the decision that they have to invest into a young QB and not have to worry about the position for 10+ years. Look what it has done for NE and GB. There are reasons why guys like Palmer and Cutler have bounced around the league. I can almost guarantee you Wilson will be in Seattle a long time. Carr will be in Oakland a long time. Even in NO, Brees has been a constant. It would benefit this team if they could somehow find a young QB they can count on for a long time.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Tell you what, if Palmer is not our QB this coming season (and I think he will be and will actually play out his contract, he is one tough SOB), Cutler is pretty damn attractive as a starter compared to the mess we had between Warner and Palmer... plus guys with 'er' at the end of their last name seem to get us into the playoffs :)
I think y'er on to something.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

ASUCHRIS

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I think we can all agree that there is at minimum, a small chance that Palmer decides to hang it up.

If he does, what option would we have available better than Cutler? Unfortunately, we're built to win now, and looking at FA/rookies, I think Cutler would be the superior option.
 

NJCardFan

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One retread took us to the Superbowl. Another took us within a game of it last year.
Almost doesn't count. I can name maybe 5 Super Bowls out of 50 where a retread won his team a championship:

Trent Dilfer*
Brad Johnson*
Jim Plunkett
Payton Manning
Doug Williams

*-Defenses actually won the game for those 2

Your odds are better if you can draft one or get lucky and pry a young QB from another team who can lead you to a title.
 

Stout

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I think we can all agree that there is at minimum, a small chance that Palmer decides to hang it up.

If he does, what option would we have available better than Cutler? Unfortunately, we're built to win now, and looking at FA/rookies, I think Cutler would be the superior option.

Except suddenly we're NOT built to win now. Not on offense, anyway, and we have key FA decisions to make on D.
 

Russ Smith

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I think we can all agree that there is at minimum, a small chance that Palmer decides to hang it up.

If he does, what option would we have available better than Cutler? Unfortunately, we're built to win now, and looking at FA/rookies, I think Cutler would be the superior option.


have people not looked at Cutlers contract?

For one thing he's not a FA, we have to trade for him his contract runs through 2020. He makes 16 million this year with a caphit of 17, next year he makes 12.5 with a caphit of 16. the last 3 years of his deal the caphit is 17, 20 and 21.7 million. People think Palmers contract is a problem and then want to replace him with a guy who has nearly as big a contract and will be learning the offense from scratch.

If Palmer retires and we need a QB yeah we're going to look at Cutler but I'd be awfully tempted to kick the tires elsewhere first, Denver has Siemian and Lynch, there are some others out there.

if we're going to dump Palmer to save cap we ought to REALLY save cap.
 

AZCrazy

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The only reason to dump Palmer is his age. Guys like Romo and Cutler are no solution for that problem. Cutler was taken right next to Leinart in the draft, twelve years ago by next season. We need someone drafted at least in this decade. Ideally next May. As of now we have a top ten pick. :eek:
 

kerouac9

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have people not looked at Cutlers contract?

For one thing he's not a FA, we have to trade for him his contract runs through 2020. He makes 16 million this year with a caphit of 17, next year he makes 12.5 with a caphit of 16. the last 3 years of his deal the caphit is 17, 20 and 21.7 million. People think Palmers contract is a problem and then want to replace him with a guy who has nearly as big a contract and will be learning the offense from scratch.

If Palmer retires and we need a QB yeah we're going to look at Cutler but I'd be awfully tempted to kick the tires elsewhere first, Denver has Siemian and Lynch, there are some others out there.

if we're going to dump Palmer to save cap we ought to REALLY save cap.

Everyone anticipates that Cutler is gonna get cut. I think that even the Bears are openly talking about it.

http://deadspin.com/jay-cutlers-time-in-chicago-is-probably-over-with-1789288485
 

ASUCHRIS

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That would certainly be preferable to having to trade for him.

Yeah, trading for him is a non starter. We're assuming he'll be cut. (and Chicago has a rising star in Barkley!)
 

Russ Smith

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Yeah, trading for him is a non starter. We're assuming he'll be cut. (and Chicago has a rising star in Barkley!)


I guess we'll see I'm not convinced the Bears will cut him quickly, I suspect they're going to try and trade him first if they really are moving on.
 
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Harry

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This all started when before Palmer was re-signed I said if he retired they might go with Cutler. Now I believe if you can get him for $3 million he may be a decent bridge that might actually make for an exciting year and open some needed cap space. I would not give him a multiyear deal. Like Russ, I'm not at all sure he can be "fixed." Somebody has to play QB. I think there will be decent QBOTF candidates in this draft in round 3 or 4. This is a very interesting draft for the Cards to pick early. I don't believe they will have enough on offense even if Palmer stays to think Super Bowl. The O-line has to be reworked no matter who's playing QB.
 

Bodha

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BA also liked Logan Thomas.


BA is not a QB whisperer. Hes the Phil Jackson of the NFL. A good coach whos reputation has been inflated by the benefit of having superstar talented players on his teams.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Yes and no, remember K9 said that before last season too, the prior year was an outlier he'll regress to the mean. Then he didn't and K9 kept silent and now he's struggling this year and K9 is bragging about so many people having been wrong when he was the one that openly predicted last season would not happen.

I see what you are saying, but I can only comment on what I read on this board, and this board was CONVINCED Palmer would continue to be the player he was last year, yet no matter how K9, yourself, myself, and anyone cuts it, the stats, the wins, and the play of Carson Palmer speaks for himself. He has had a long career.

He is in the league of Drew Bledsoe. Good stats, and a good QB, but he is not elite, he needs a good team around him, and he is going to be average, very average.

Now, personally ? I have NO problem with Carson Palmer as the quarterback. Quarterbacks are hard to come by in the NFL, and after watching some of the worst QB's ever to grace an NFL field, I will take Palmer behind center, every year. It would be great to get an elite guy and have him for 15+ years, but that is rare. I will take an average QB, instead of wallowing through the Max Hall's of the NFL.

Now in order to win with Carson Palmer your offensive line has to block, your wide receivers have to make plays/catches, and your defense has to make timely stops...........not to mention your *($%&(ing special teams have to be able to execute just on a average NFL level (not the complete dumpster fire we have watched this year).

I know this will come off as VERY arrogant, and I apologize for hurt feelings in advanced, but only the laziest NFL fan is going to slam the QB when he is not even in the top 5, when it comes to issues on this team. Heck, he may not even be in the top 10. <-- That is a good thread poll/discussion. I may have to post that.

Regardless, Carson Palmer is playing at the level I would expect from Carson Palmer this year. I have no idea why he is getting the heat he is getting when there are far more deserving players that are KILLING this team right now.
 

b8rtm8nn

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Regardless, Carson Palmer is playing at the level I would expect from Carson Palmer this year. I have no idea why he is getting the heat he is getting when there are far more deserving players that are KILLING this team right now.

I agree strongly with everything, Palmer had been less consistent this year with the long ball - but given the WR issues and ST issues - he has been decent. His QB rate is lower than it has ever been in AZ, but if you remove Buffalo - he is at 91.2 and that is with his efficiency getting worse as the OL injuries continued to pile up. He could be better, and BA could be better with the offense to cover some deficiencies - but those are tweaks compared to WR/ST problems.
 

b8rtm8nn

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BTW - AZ rates 29th in yards per punt return and 32nd in yards per punt.

Inexcusable.
 
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