I think we OVERRATE Denny's talent evaluating

[Shane]

I don't have the time right now. But if you look up and down our roster we have a bunch of guys that he drafted and brought in as supposed BIG TIME FA's(that were meant to shore up an area of need) who just flat out suck. More then are real solid football players IMO. Maybe we dont want him as GM either.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't have the time right now. But if you look up and down our roster we have a bunch of guys that he drafted and brought in as supposed BIG TIME FA's(that were meant to shore up an area of need) who just flat out suck. More then are real solid football players IMO. Maybe we dont want him as GM either.

I've been meaning to point that out too. People keep saying make DG a GM because he knows talent, is anybody actually noticing his draft picks? Fitz is a stud, Dansby could be but we're seeing now why he slipped, injury prone and a headcase. Dockett seems to finally be waking up but not yet a great pick. Rolle can't play CB, Green can't play the ball, Watson and Lewis can't even get active over a guy coming in off the street? Deuce can't play yet, Step is beyond bad and yet apparently better than Leckey. JJ can't even return kickoffs let alone play RB.

I was thinking last night how cursed this franchise is. If DeAngelo Williams never breaks his leg in the bowl game he likely turns pro, we pick him in the first round(instead of Rolle) and he's our RB now. With the other picks we load up at CB etc. With the money we paid to get Edge maybe we address some OL needs or DB. But instead we take Rolle, take JJ, and now we had to shell out huge money for Edge and we'll have to do it again at CB either for FA's or draft picks.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Besides Fitz he hasn't gotten crap. Fitz was a slam dunk.

He takes a bunch of players with attitude problems and thinks it doesn't matter. That's the DG way.

I do like Pope and Matt....It's gonna be interesting to see how they develop with the new coach next season.

 

[Shane]

I've been meaning to point that out too. People keep saying make DG a GM because he knows talent, is anybody actually noticing his draft picks? Fitz is a stud, Dansby could be but we're seeing now why he slipped, injury prone and a headcase. Dockett seems to finally be waking up but not yet a great pick. Rolle can't play CB, Green can't play the ball, Watson and Lewis can't even get active over a guy coming in off the street? Deuce can't play yet, Step is beyond bad and yet apparently better than Leckey. JJ can't even return kickoffs let alone play RB.

I was thinking last night how cursed this franchise is. If DeAngelo Williams never breaks his leg in the bowl game he likely turns pro, we pick him in the first round(instead of Rolle) and he's our RB now. With the other picks we load up at CB etc. With the money we paid to get Edge maybe we address some OL needs or DB. But instead we take Rolle, take JJ, and now we had to shell out huge money for Edge and we'll have to do it again at CB either for FA's or draft picks.

The more I look at the roster the sicker I get. Most of them are all "denny guys" too!

 

[clif]

Look at this objectively. If we had a competent Oline we would be way better. Just look at yesterday. Had the offensive line held it's own, kurt would have found these 2 stud receivers...a stud TE (that Matt seemed to find later in the game) and the end result would have been that our much maligned D would not have been on the field as much.

I'm too frustrated to go position by position but we have better talent that some want to give credit for. These guys are just trying to do too much to make up for a severe lack of talent on the Oline.

It starts with the Oline being at the very least being competent.

 

[Russ Smith]

Look at this objectively. If we had a competent Oline we would be way better. Just look at yesterday. Had the offensive line held it's own, kurt would have found these 2 stud receivers...a stud TE (that Matt seemed to find later in the game) and the end result would have been that our much maligned D would not have been on the field as much.

I'm too frustrated to go position by position but we have better talent that some want to give credit for. These guys are just trying to do too much to make up for a severe lack of talent on the Oline.

It starts with the Oline being at the very least being competent.

Oh we have more talent now than we did before Green took the job but you can't say it's the OL and not point out that this is Green's OL. He either drafted them or moved them or signed them, he's on his 3rd OL coach. As Wolfley and Lewis said yesterday at some point you have to realize the coach is qualified, we're running schemes everyone else runs, and yet we still can't block so it's gotta be the players aren't very good, and Green picked most of them so in a thread about his eye for talent, you can't excuse him because the OL stinks.

 

[clif]

Oh we have more talent now than we did before Green took the job but you can't say it's the OL and not point out that this is Green's OL. He either drafted them or moved them or signed them, he's on his 3rd OL coach. As Wolfley and Lewis said yesterday at some point you have to realize the coach is qualified, we're running schemes everyone else runs, and yet we still can't block so it's gotta be the players aren't very good, and Green picked most of them so in a thread about his eye for talent, you can't excuse him because the OL stinks.

Not saying he is excused, but I think the bigger question is why do they stink? Why didn't we get more help there? I can't believe that Denny went to the FO and said "hey stop spending. We're set on the Oline". We just won't know why the FA spending stopped so of course it is his Oline, but when you don't spend money on talent there really isn't a choice of who to put there.

 

[pinnacle]

I know...I will get flamed for mentioning the dreaded word: Kendall...but as I recall..the starting oline when green arrived....could have been:

Davis, Shelton, Spikes, Clement, Kendall. Wragge was a reserve..do not remember the rest of the lineman. We thought at the time that we had an bad offensive line.

I would take clement and Shelton at tackles, kendall at center, davis at guard, spikes or wragge at guard over what we have now....and that assumes that over three drafts and free agency periods we would not have signed or drafted a decent o-lineman (we drafted a bunch and signed two free agents).. Clement seems to be ok for the jets..but he did look bad in San Francisco.

My point: the talent evaluation needs to be severly questioned when we replaced four of our five offensive lineman by our own choice (they were all under contract and could have been retained) and brought in six draft picks and free agents (not counting waiver wire pickups, undrafted guys and conversions like Wakefield). We brought in: two medium dollar free agents (ross, brown) and four draft picks (litui, step, wells, leckey) in an attempt to replace the four changed spots (davis is the only constant..although at a different position)...and the line has gotten worse... ..granted..the old line was not exactly a pleasure to watch....it was actually quite painful...but having seem pretty much every game - so far this season..this line is worse.


The talent evaluation was missed coming and going...so it seems to me...Litui is too new...the rest have been in the league awhile..

 

[Russ Smith]

Not saying he is excused, but I think the bigger question is why do they stink? Why didn't we get more help there? I can't believe that Denny went to the FO and said "hey stop spending. We're set on the Oline". We just won't know why the FA spending stopped so of course it is his Oline, but when you don't spend money on talent there really isn't a choice of who to put there.

I don't knowm the point comes up a lot but nobody ever provides a list of names we passed on signing. I think we should have pursued Verba although I don't think he's great and he's been hurt all year with the Lions and then got hurt in the first game he actually played in. At least he would have been entertaining and he and Leinart could swap Paris Hilton stories(Verba was photographed partying with Paris and Tara Reid in Vegas once).

I'm not saying I'm happy with how we built the OL but Green is the one that signed Milford Brown and the way FA went it sure appeared he was one of our primary targets. The first 2 guys we signed were Clancy(good move) and Brown, and then Edge very shortly after and we were essentially done. So if Green wanted the OL to be a priority why did he go so aggressively after Brown a guy who when he signed we were told was going to be a backup?

I don't have all the answers I'm just saying the OL is on Green too he built it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Oh, Green is definitely the culprit on the oline. He even said so last season. He's got the coaches and the players, so it's all on him.

This team is still more talented than any we've had in Arizona though. But, there is more to winning games than talent.

 

[AZCB34]

I don't have the time right now. But if you look up and down our roster we have a bunch of guys that he drafted and brought in as supposed BIG TIME FA's(that were meant to shore up an area of need) who just flat out suck. More then are real solid football players IMO. Maybe we dont want him as GM either.

I am going to kind of, sort of, slightly defend Denny here and say, I think he does a decent job of drafting. I mean, on draft day, fans are sporting more wood for the picks than Home Depot has on hand but I think too often we forget the 50/50 nature of the draft on a purely basic pick level.

Now, here is where I think Denny just completely flat out sucks the big one when it comes to the draft. He and his staff don't coach these guys up. Ther is no player development in place to take a raw rough rookie (and 99% of them are raw no matter their pedigree or ability as it pertains to NFL play) and coach him up to greater heights. I think Denny just drafts them and expects them to step in and play at an above average level from day 1. If you look at his picks and how he has played them, I think my point has some validity to it.

Also, I think he is completely loath to ever admit, even to himself in the rare moments he self-reflects on his coaching job, that he made an error. That fact is shown in the stobborness of constantly starting Stepanovich at FB...I mean C, sorry he is in the backfield so much..., it is reflected in the fact that Elton Brown is still on the roster (taking up a valuable roster spot) even though is an absolute stiff to name a couple players.

I think Denny makes decent choices and given the fact that he and his staff cannot or don't coach these guys, he tilts that 50/50 success factor towards the negative.

 

[CaptTurbo]

What we need here is...One Heartbeat.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh, Green is definitely the culprit on the oline. He even said so last season. He's got the coaches and the players, so it's all on him.

This team is still more talented than any we've had in Arizona though. But, there is more to winning games than talent.

the 1998 team was more talented than this team. The defense alone with Aeneas, Simeon Rice and Jamir Miller blows away this defense - not to mention Mark Smith, Andre Wadsworth... and on the offensive side of th eball, an O-line that could actuallly block - they were even mediocre enough to allow Adrian Murrell to rush for over 1000 yards.

obviously they're more talented than any RG/Coach Smack made teams, but come on Corona Del Sol JV football team could make that claim.