I was dead on in this draft again

[Chris_Sanders]

Well,

Once again I was dead on about the Suns draft. I have been saying for over a month they wouldn't keep at least one pick and likely they would ditch both picks.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=72570&page=5&highlight=draft

I am not suprised by this. This was an awful draft, despite the pundits attempt to make it something more than it was. Getting another pick in the deepest draft in years was a bonus.

I know a lot of you guys felt that the #21 and #27 had real value, but that simply isn't the case in the capped NBA.

 

[clif]

While I can't argue with you on the depth of this draft who is to say that we will even keep the picks next year. What has Sarver done to give you or anyone else any inclination that he would do such a thing?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

While I can't argue with you on the depth of this draft who is to say that we will even keep the picks next year. What has Sarver done to give you or anyone else any inclination that he would do such a thing?

While it is easy to scapegoat Sarver, this is D'Antoni's draft. The success or failure of these moves will lie predominantly at the GMs feet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

not if the GM's hand are tied and doesn't have a say if he can draft or not, which is what I believe was the case tonight. That being said, I'm happy as a clam with how things went tonight, but don' tkid yourself, this wasn't DA's decision - it was Sarver and anything DA says in this regard is spin control to protect the owner. Well, either that or our scouting department REALLY sucks if they couldn't find ANYONE to draft or even take a chance on.

 

[Covert Rain]

While it is easy to scapegoat Sarver, this is D'Antoni's draft. The success or failure of these moves will lie predominantly at the GMs feet.

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. D'Antoni may have the final say but only when it's approved by Sarver. Sarver is a business man first. Basically Savers lays out the options available to D'Antoni. With his available options he makes the decision.

This is no longer the JC era where basketball decisions come first. Sarver will do what's best for his wallet first.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

not if the GM's hand are tied and doesn't have a say if he can draft or not, which is what I believe was the case tonight. That being said, I'm happy as a clam with how things went tonight, but don' tkid yourself, this wasn't DA's decision - it was Sarver and anything DA says in this regard is spin control to protect the owner. Well, either that or our scouting department REALLY sucks if they couldn't find ANYONE to draft or even take a chance on.

Like I said in the post I made months ago, there simply wasn't any talent after the lottery. Why do you think the Suns tried so hard to move up? This draft was caca.

 

[F-Dog]

It's not the GM's job to set the budget, but I believe D'Antoni had freedom to act beyond that point.

In particular, I truly believe they would have taken Sergio Rodriguez at 27 if D'Antoni liked him as much as we do.

 

[F-Dog]

This is no longer the JC era where basketball decisions come first. Sarver will do what's best for his wallet first.

You still riding this horse?

I thought you didn't care about selling draft picks, since they'd probably turn out to be nothing anyway.

 

[JS22]

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. D'Antoni may have the final say but only when it's approved by Sarver. Sarver is a business man first. Basically Savers lays out the options available to D'Antoni. With his available options he makes the decision.

This is no longer the JC era where basketball decisions come first. Sarver will do what's best for his wallet first.

You people never stop.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. D'Antoni may have the final say but only when it's approved by Sarver. Sarver is a business man first. Basically Savers lays out the options available to D'Antoni. With his available options he makes the decision.

This is no longer the JC era where basketball decisions come first. Sarver will do what's best for his wallet first.

Why do you say this? Again, D'Antoni already told us that he would not draft Williams or Sergio. Why was this a surprise when it happened that way. What are you expecting? So you would rather have two rookies, Grant, and no TT? Oh, you want all three, even though you were told ahead of time that that wouldn't happen due to the luxury tax.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. D'Antoni may have the final say but only when it's approved by Sarver. Sarver is a business man first. Basically Savers lays out the options available to D'Antoni. With his available options he makes the decision.

This is no longer the JC era where basketball decisions come first. Sarver will do what's best for his wallet first.

Most teams don't exceed the cap. That's is a fact. In fact, no team should be exceeding the cap, but the Cuban's of the world give fans this false sense that every team should be run by simply tossing a truckload of money at the problem.

In this instance, the Suns made the SOUND basketball decision to not give mediocre talent guaranteed contracts. Contracts that they would likely have to use other assists to later divest themselves should this mediocre talents not pan out (likely).

If you thought the Suns were keeping this picks, then you already bought the bridge and that is why you are trying to sell it now.

And just for the record, I have a near perfect record on the Suns draft day. Our organization has been pretty transparent if you take the time to look.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Like I said in the post I made months ago, there simply wasn't any talent after the lottery. Why do you think the Suns tried so hard to move up? This draft was caca.

But to play devil's advocate (even though I side with the Suns on this one) it sucks to have to wait another year to see young talent. Talent being the key word.

 

[Covert Rain]

Most teams don't exceed the cap. That's is a fact. In fact, no team should be exceeding the cap, but the Cuban's of the world give fans this false sense that every team should be run by simply tossing a truckload of money at the problem.

In this instance, the Suns made the SOUND basketball decision to not give mediocre talent guaranteed contracts. Contracts that they would likely have to use other assists to later divest themselves should this mediocre talents not pan out (likely).

If you thought the Suns were keeping this picks, then you already bought the bridge and that is why you are trying to sell it now.

And just for the record, I have a near perfect record on the Suns draft day. Our organization has been pretty transparent if you take the time to look.

I don't believe we were debating the soundness of the Suns decision financially. If Sarver feels he could not afford the burden of a luxury tax, then I don't fault him for wanting to stay under it.

However, we all know that Sarver is a business man first. If it comes down to his wallet versus the success of the Suns, we all know which choice he will make. Sarver has the final say when the Suns spend money not D'Antoni. So to say this draft rests on D'Antoni is fools gold. This was and forever will be Sarver approved decisions from here on out.

Would you like a Lake with that bridge sir?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

But to play devil's advocate (even though I side with the Suns on this one) it sucks to have to wait another year to see young talent. Talent being the key word.

I see great young talent on this team, just not rookies. We are only old at one position...PG. We all agree we need a competent backup to Nash and hopefully we will find a servable veteran looking for 20 minutes a game.

 

[newfan101]

In this instance, the Suns made the SOUND basketball decision to not give mediocre talent guaranteed contracts. Contracts that they would likely have to use other assists to later divest themselves should this mediocre talents not pan out (likely).

It's a shame they didn't use those same fundamentals last year when signing an obviously over-the-hill Brian Grant.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's a shame they didn't use those same fundamentals last year when signing an obviously over-the-hill Brian Grant.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Quite frankly...I'm impressed as to what transpired tonight....

Did you honestly want the Suns to draft someone for the sake of drafting them and signing that player to a 3-4 year rookie contract that wouldnt immediately contribute and by then in subsequent drafts a better player to fill any future voids will be available then and would be more worthwhile making an investment on?

Also... I cannot fathom win this year or else mentality when only 2 of the Suns core players are over 30.... True.. one includes Nash, however, with Amare returning (and the improved prospects of keeping TT for at least 3 seasons here in Phoenix), Diaw will be able to play more minutes at PG and spell Nash on most nights... Plus... they could always deal for a mid-tier PG by perhaps trading away James Jones or a future draft choice.... The team has so many options at their disposal that is unreal...

People accused Sarver of being stingy last year.. then he invested in Bell, allowed the Suns to acquire KT, and subsequently get James Jones, settled for Eddie House because Michael Finley preferred San Antonio and then Sarver also opened his purse-strings to prevent the Suns from standing pat when KT's season was officially declared over with when they signed TT for the 2 mos of the season/post-season....

I remember a couple of years ago D'Antoni stating that he didnt like developing rookies, that he preferred players with at least 2 years of NBA experience who already know the basic fundamentals and such....

Next year's draft is deeper and Im glad they're assembling the talent now... I know many probably wanted a face to identify this year's draft with.. but this is better than just settling for Jackson "Sausage King" Vroman and then Dijon "Mustard" Thompson... they freed up a roster spot and gained some more financial stability tonight and have more flexibility to make some creative moves...

Must all look at it in the big picture and remain patient here.... there is a plan and all of it will be sorted out soon in everyone's favor... I guarantee it....

 

[Joe Mama]

I see great young talent on this team, just not rookies. We are only old at one position...PG. We all agree we need a competent backup to Nash and hopefully we will find a servable veteran looking for 20 minutes a game.

I believe most people here that are upset, especially slin, did not like the draft because it's a big letdown. There was a good point guard available at #21, but obviously a lot of teams did not feel he was a good pick. I happened to disagree with that analysis myself, and I know there are others here that fumes and way. We'll just have to wait and see if passing on Marcus Williams was a mistake.

That said, the Phoenix Suns saved something like $3.5 million next season by trading the #21 and Brian Grant, and maybe more importantly they opened up a couple of roster spots. Then they saved another roster spot and probably $1.5-2 million next season by trading the #27. So even though it's a big letdown for draft junkies like myself the Phoenix Suns did save around $5 million for next season and a few roster spots by passing on the opportunity to draft a couple of players they really didn't want at this point. Oh yeah, they really saved a couple of those roster spots for the next 2-3 seasons by not drafting and signing those rookies.

Oh, I nearly forgot that the Phoenix Suns received another late first-round draft pick next year and then deal with Boston for the #21. That will probably be a very laid draft pick, but next year's draft is projecting to be much better and deeper. Obviously the Phoenix Suns are not going to use 3 draft picks next year. The key word here is flexibility. They can try and package those picks to move up or trade for another future pick while unloading some salary. They could use one or more of those draft picks this year to acquire a player who will help. Who knows? The key is flexibility.

It's a shame they didn't use those same fundamentals last year when signing an obviously over-the-hill Brian Grant.

This is true. I actually believed at the time that was a pretty good signing, but I know there were those here that did not like it (giving a shout out to Eric). Bryan Colangelo made some very good moves here obviously, but not everything he did was perfect. I happen to believe he would have done the same thing this current Phoenix Suns management did last night.

Of course he also took Bargnani #1, and even though I have only seen a few minutes of video on this kid I think that was a pretty big mistake. Time will tell.

Also... I cannot fathom win this year or else mentality when only 2 of the Suns core players are over 30.... True.. one includes Nash, however, with Amare returning (and the improved prospects of keeping TT for at least 3 seasons here in Phoenix), Diaw will be able to play more minutes at PG and spell Nash on most nights... Plus... they could always deal for a mid-tier PG by perhaps trading away James Jones or a future draft choice.... The team has so many options at their disposal that is unreal...

People accused Sarver of being stingy last year.. then he invested in Bell, allowed the Suns to acquire KT, and subsequently get James Jones, settled for Eddie House because Michael Finley preferred San Antonio and then Sarver also opened his purse-strings to prevent the Suns from standing pat when KT's season was officially declared over with when they signed TT for the 2 mos of the season/post-season....

I remember a couple of years ago D'Antoni stating that he didnt like developing rookies, that he preferred players with at least 2 years of NBA experience who already know the basic fundamentals and such....

Next year's draft is deeper and Im glad they're assembling the talent now... I know many probably wanted a face to identify this year's draft with.. but this is better than just settling for Jackson "Sausage King" Vroman and then Dijon "Mustard" Thompson... they freed up a roster spot and gained some more financial stability tonight and have more flexibility to make some creative moves...

Must all look at it in the big picture and remain patient here.... there is a plan and all of it will be sorted out soon in everyone's favor... I guarantee it....

I agree with most of your post, but let's not get carried away. Sarver hardly "opened up his purse strings" to sign Tim Thomas. That one was a no-brainer, and they only paid Thomas a couple hundred thousand dollars at most.

I guess some people here might not believe this, but the Phoenix Suns did try very hard to move up in the draft to get a player they thought could contribute next season. According to Mark West those players were Thabo and Ronnie brewer. However despite the Suns offering "everything but the kitchen sink" according to David Griffin, none of the teams were willing to give up those picks.

Joe Mama

 

[pokerface]

Sarver already proved his willingness to spend money on his very first aquisition with the signing of Nash. He outbid the big spender Cuban on that one and Sarver has been spending ever since. So what Sarver saves a few bucks here and there...if he didnt he'd be a rotten business man.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well,

Once again I was dead on about the Suns draft. I have been saying for over a month they wouldn't keep at least one pick and likely they would ditch both picks.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=72570&page=5&highlight=draft

I am not suprised by this. This was an awful draft, despite the pundits attempt to make it something more than it was. Getting another pick in the deepest draft in years was a bonus.

I know a lot of you guys felt that the #21 and #27 had real value, but that simply isn't the case in the capped NBA.

Chris - no offense but you might as well have called the sun was coming up today. This was the third year in a row they did this!

I work at a night club out here in Florida and when i saw the Suns traded the 21st pick I litlerally screamed "No!". After everyone stopped and stared at me I started to think "How can they keep doing this to me" All i want to see is a rookie develop as it is one of my favorite things in sports. that hope. and then they traded the 27th pick and I started to binge drink.

Now that its the next day - I feel alot better about everything. (Thats either the kool aid or the hangover talking) If the players we wanted were not there then getting rid of the picks is a solid idea. The best part to me is that we got Clevelands pick next year. It should be between 15-22. So IMO we will have 4-6, 15-22, and of course number 32 next year in what is talked about as the deepest draft in 20 years we could make some noise and restock our team. That along with Barbosa and Marion might allow us to trade for Greg Oden (i'm kidding....kind of)

All I am saying is we BETTER resign Tim Thomas. And i read that we might go after a guy like Bobby Jackson now too. That idea i love.....

 

[Kolo]

I'm with Chris on this. It'd be interesting to see a rookie develop, but we're nine deep right now (assuming TT is signed) and no rookie would play. In terms of value, even the 30th pick in next year's draft has more value than 21 and 27 this year. D'Antoni and Griffin identified a handful of guys they felt worthy of a guaranteed contract and roster spot, tried to trade up to get one, and when only middling prospects were left they got what value they could for the picks.

Now, all we need is a decent and reliable veteran point or combo guard to sign for the minimum, and we're ten deep and I think probably favored to win a title.

 

[sly fly]

Wow. An intelligent thread. It's refreshing to not have to wade through crap trade proposals.

I'm with Sanders on this one. No sense in "reaching" for a rookie at 21 and 27. It doesn't make sense to pay some rook 3 mil to sit on a 60 win team.

The Suns obviously made their play for Thabo and Brewer, and that was that.

I'm glad PHX management didn't buy the over-hype machine they call the NBA Draft.

 

[SweetD]

I agree the Suns did the rigth thing. We are a young team Grant, Nash, TT, KT are the only older guys. TT, Nash, & even KT have at least 3 years left. Marion, Amare, Boris, LB, and JJ have well over 5 years left. That is eight players locked in for 3 years +. I do think if Boris and Amare can play together they will move KT and look to replace him in the draft or with a free agent.

 

[Russ Smith]

I believe most people here that are upset, especially slin, did not like the draft because it's a big letdown. There was a good point guard available at #21, but obviously a lot of teams did not feel he was a good pick. I happened to disagree with that analysis myself, and I know there are others here that fumes and way. We'll just have to wait and see if passing on Marcus Williams was a mistake.

This'll probably sound like a vendetta for folks that read the college board and know my take on Williams,but here goes. I am not surprised at all that Williams slid, and in a way, bad as it sounds, I'm glad he slid. Marcus Williams had no business playing college basketball last year for UCONN, he and AJ Price were part of the same laptop theft group, Price got caught redhanded with a laptop, Williams tried to sell his to a pawnshop, got tipped off the police were on to him, and tried to make a deal through a friend to get the person it was stolen from to agree to take it back and drop the case. When he found out the police already knew the whole deal, he essentially turned himself in.

Williams was the starting PG, Price the backup, but Price was expected to miss the whole year since he was coming back from a bad injury where he had bleeding in his brain. Both kids did the same thing, both got caught, Price was "suspended" for a season, one that he would have missed anyways for his health, Williams missed a few games and then started and led the team the rest of the way. Calhoun tried to excuse the discrepancy saying both cases were unique and that Williams had tried to remedy the situation, but it was total BS, he needed a PG and let a known criminal play. Calhoun is now trying to make it seem like he's a disciplinarian, he's now saying Price is the best player on next years team, completely forgetting to mention he'd never have been cleared to play this past year anyways because of his health.

Marcus after the break he got, shows up in the workouts totally out of shape, slides even more, and luckily for him still goes first round. A friend of mine who has some connections to Chris Monter said that he'd heard through the grapevine that Williams was going to slide because a lot of teams that interviewed and worked him out came away saying he didn't learn a thing from getting caught, all he learned was if you can play ball, they'll let you get away with it. He came off so poorly in interviews that lots of teams pulled him completely off their boards.

I think he's a very good player and I really hope he finally puts his problems behind him, but if I were a Sun fan I wouldn't be upset at all that they didn't pick Marcus.

 

[Joe Mama]

This'll probably sound like a vendetta for folks that read the college board and know my take on Williams,but here goes. I am not surprised at all that Williams slid, and in a way, bad as it sounds, I'm glad he slid. Marcus Williams had no business playing college basketball last year for UCONN, he and AJ Price were part of the same laptop theft group, Price got caught redhanded with a laptop, Williams tried to sell his to a pawnshop, got tipped off the police were on to him, and tried to make a deal through a friend to get the person it was stolen from to agree to take it back and drop the case. When he found out the police already knew the whole deal, he essentially turned himself in.

Williams was the starting PG, Price the backup, but Price was expected to miss the whole year since he was coming back from a bad injury where he had bleeding in his brain. Both kids did the same thing, both got caught, Price was "suspended" for a season, one that he would have missed anyways for his health, Williams missed a few games and then started and led the team the rest of the way. Calhoun tried to excuse the discrepancy saying both cases were unique and that Williams had tried to remedy the situation, but it was total BS, he needed a PG and let a known criminal play. Calhoun is now trying to make it seem like he's a disciplinarian, he's now saying Price is the best player on next years team, completely forgetting to mention he'd never have been cleared to play this past year anyways because of his health.

Marcus after the break he got, shows up in the workouts totally out of shape, slides even more, and luckily for him still goes first round. A friend of mine who has some connections to Chris Monter said that he'd heard through the grapevine that Williams was going to slide because a lot of teams that interviewed and worked him out came away saying he didn't learn a thing from getting caught, all he learned was if you can play ball, they'll let you get away with it. He came off so poorly in interviews that lots of teams pulled him completely off their boards.

I think he's a very good player and I really hope he finally puts his problems behind him, but if I were a Sun fan I wouldn't be upset at all that they didn't pick Marcus.

thanks. That's about what I figured regarding Marcus Williams. I'm sure that's why the Phoenix Suns passed on him because on the basketball court he would be a very good fit for this team.

I still think a lot of teams will regret passing on him, but I do understand why they did it.

Joe