Ian Rapoport: Sources ”Baker playing with a ucl tear in his thumb”

[Krangodnzr]

I agree. Said same last year.

He's a good tackler. Much more comfortable coming down hill and with his eyes towards the QB. Really not good with his back to the QB.

At best a zone CB.

That's what he played at Washington. I think Murphy is still being misused. He needs to be the first CB off the bench and Kirkpatrick needs more snaps.

 

[DVontel]

That's what he played at Washington. I think Murphy is still being misused. He needs to be the first CB off the bench and Kirkpatrick needs more snaps.

No Kirkpatrick does not.

 

[DVontel]

We might need to double dip at CB in next years draft.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No Kirkpatrick does not.

I think nearly any DB on the roster should get snaps over Murphy. Outside of making two plays in the Niners game, he gets beat quite regularly.

 

[Jetstream Green]

We might need to double dip at CB in next years draft.

I think you take the best player in round one and hope that's a corner but I would definitely go round two and three corner because frankly we need at least two in the future and then pray we can get a bargain at WR later

 

[AZ Native]

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That alone gave Wilson 1 more int than Budda has.

 

[BritCard]

I think nearly any DB on the roster should get snaps over Murphy. Outside of making two plays in the Niners game, he gets beat quite regularly.

Murphy gets too much credit for those plays. Literally any DB should have been making those. Jimmy G throws a fairly weak ball. The one into the EZ was a floater, I could have batted that away. The one to the sideline to end the game was a simple one too because Jimmy G was way late on the throw.

 

[BritCard]

I think nearly any DB on the roster should get snaps over Murphy. Outside of making two plays in the Niners game, he gets beat quite regularly.

I would have played Chris Jones over him. I'd play Kevin Peterson over him too.

 

[Garthshort]

I agree. Said same last year.

He's a good tackler. Much more comfortable coming down hill and with his eyes towards the QB. Really not good with his back to the QB.

At best a zone CB.

Not sure, but we had a CB, Corey Chavous, who struggled at the CB position. He ended up in MN and was switched to safety, and had a good career, if I remember correctly.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe I am an easier evaluator, but I don't feel that Byron Murphy has been outright bad. He has had his moments and is obviously still adjusting, but I don't believe he has been a liability. It is a complex scheme which is not his choice and does require a ton of communication because of the zone concepts.

 

[BritCard]

Maybe I am an easier evaluator, but I don't feel that Byron Murphy has been outright bad. He has had his moments and is obviously still adjusting, but I don't believe he has been a liability. It is a complex scheme which is not his choice and does require a ton of communication because of the zone concepts.

Bad, maybe not. Consistently below average and worse than expected for his draft position, yes.

 

[Chopper0080]

Bad, maybe not. Consistently below average and worse than expected for his draft position, yes.

Meh...he is one of the three CBs drafted in the 2nd round of the 2019 draft who is playing more than 50% of defensive snaps. That is out of the seven CBs drafted that round. I also can't say that Trayvon Mullin and Sean Murphy-Bunting are significantly better than Murphy. Furthermore, the only CB drafted ahead of Murphy was Deandre Baker. All in all, we might have landed the best CB in the 2019 draft even if it turns out to be a terrible draft class for CBs.

 

[jmt]

I’m thinking we don’t get to see how bad others are so we crap - some deservedly so - on the Big Red.

 

[BritCard]

Meh...he is one of the three CBs drafted in the 2nd round of the 2019 draft who is playing more than 50% of defensive snaps. That is out of the seven CBs drafted that round. I also can't say that Trayvon Mullin and Sean Murphy-Bunting are significantly better than Murphy. Furthermore, the only CB drafted ahead of Murphy was Deandre Baker. All in all, we might have landed the best CB in the 2019 draft even if it turns out to be a terrible draft class for CBs.

Murphy Bunting has been really good, much better than Murphy. So have Rock Ya-Sin, Joejuan Williams, Jamel Dean and Gardner-Johnson.

But that's bye the bye anyway, you can't control what others do and it's not Murphy's fault either, but he hasn't been close to justifying his draft position.

 

[Chopper0080]

Murphy Bunting has been really good, much better than Murphy. So have Rock Ya-Sin, Joejuan Williams, Jamel Dean and Gardner-Johnson.

But that's bye the bye anyway, you can't control what others do and it's not Murphy's fault either, but he hasn't been close to justifying his draft position.

(EDIT: Adding for context. Byron Murphy has played 187 defensive snaps this year (95.9%).)

Ya-Sin has played 46 snaps this year and was meh last year. I am not sure where you are getting that he is better.

Williams has played 44 snaps this year and has 2 passes defensed and 6 solo tackles on his career. Come on man.

The Saints list Gardner-Johnson as S so I am not sure how he factors in...

And lets dig into Sean Murphy Bunting for a sec.

Byron Murphy is giving up a 56.3% comp % to opposing QBs on 16 targets. Has 4 solo tackles and 2 passes def.

SMB is giving up a 78.6% comp % to opposing QBs on 14 targets. He has 7 solo tackles and 1 pass def.

I don't see how you can extrapolate those stats into asserting that SMB has been "much better" than Byron Murphy.

Finally...Jamel Dean is also giving up a higher comp% to opposing QBs despite being not being a starter and is actually getting targeted more. So you are arguing that Murphy is worse than this guy despite playing 20% more snaps, getting targeted less, and holding opposing QBs to a lower comp %.

Get this weak argument out of here.

 

[BritCard]

(EDIT: Adding for context. Byron Murphy has played 187 defensive snaps this year (95.9%).)

Ya-Sin has played 46 snaps this year and was meh last year. I am not sure where you are getting that he is better.

Williams has played 44 snaps this year and has 2 passes defensed and 6 solo tackles on his career. Come on man.

The Saints list Gardner-Johnson as S so I am not sure how he factors in...

And lets dig into Sean Murphy Bunting for a sec.

Byron Murphy is giving up a 56.3% comp % to opposing QBs on 16 targets. Has 4 solo tackles and 2 passes def.

SMB is giving up a 78.6% comp % to opposing QBs on 14 targets. He has 7 solo tackles and 1 pass def.

I don't see how you can extrapolate those stats into asserting that SMB has been "much better" than Byron Murphy.

Finally...Jamel Dean is also giving up a higher comp% to opposing QBs despite being not being a starter and is actually getting targeted more. So you are arguing that Murphy is worse than this guy despite playing 20% more snaps, getting targeted less, and holding opposing QBs to a lower comp %.

Get this weak argument out of here.

Murphy has played against Niners 3rd string, a really bad Haskins and mostly In an and Detroit where he largely covered a below par Golladay and Amendola. Stats don't give a complete picture.

Are you trying to say he's good? I said he's consistently below average which I think is fair.

 

[gimpy]

Can't say anything good about Big Red. SMH.

 

[BigRedRage]

(EDIT: Adding for context. Byron Murphy has played 187 defensive snaps this year (95.9%).)

Ya-Sin has played 46 snaps this year and was meh last year. I am not sure where you are getting that he is better.

Williams has played 44 snaps this year and has 2 passes defensed and 6 solo tackles on his career. Come on man.

The Saints list Gardner-Johnson as S so I am not sure how he factors in...

And lets dig into Sean Murphy Bunting for a sec.

Byron Murphy is giving up a 56.3% comp % to opposing QBs on 16 targets. Has 4 solo tackles and 2 passes def.

SMB is giving up a 78.6% comp % to opposing QBs on 14 targets. He has 7 solo tackles and 1 pass def.

I don't see how you can extrapolate those stats into asserting that SMB has been "much better" than Byron Murphy.

Finally...Jamel Dean is also giving up a higher comp% to opposing QBs despite being not being a starter and is actually getting targeted more. So you are arguing that Murphy is worse than this guy despite playing 20% more snaps, getting targeted less, and holding opposing QBs to a lower comp %.

Get this weak argument out of here.

Tell us how you really feel

 

[Chopper0080]

Murphy has played against Niners 3rd string, a really bad Haskins and mostly In an and Detroit where he largely covered a below par Golladay and Amendola. Stats don't give a complete picture.

Are you trying to say he's good? I said he's consistently below average which I think is fair.

As far the that first paragraph...you are reaching, a lot. You are saying that stats aren't giving the complete picture but then taking the argument to an even more subjective level by bringing in WR/CB matchups and QB's against comps neither of which you or I are qualified or have access enough to really discuss. At some point, it needs to be recognized that 50% of NFL players are almost non-distinguishable from each other in terms of who is better. There is 25% who are easily better and then 25% who are easily worse.

As for "what am I trying to say", this is what I did say...

"Meh...he is one of the three CBs drafted in the 2nd round of the 2019 draft who is playing more than 50% of defensive snaps. That is out of the seven CBs drafted that round. I also can't say that Trayvon Mullin and Sean Murphy-Bunting are significantly better than Murphy. Furthermore, the only CB drafted ahead of Murphy was Deandre Baker. All in all, we might have landed the best CB in the 2019 draft even if it turns out to be a terrible draft class for CBs."

You proceeded to list other players and then stated they were "much better" than Byron Murphy which is not true at all.

If you want to call those players you listed "good" and Murphy has better stats and plays significantly more snaps, then you are essentially calling Murphy "good".

 

[BritCard]

As far the that first paragraph...you are reaching, a lot. You are saying that stats aren't giving the complete picture but then taking the argument to an even more subjective level by bringing in WR/CB matchups and QB's against comps neither of which you or I are qualified or have access enough to really discuss. At some point, it needs to be recognized that 50% of NFL players are almost non-distinguishable from each other in terms of who is better. There is 25% who are easily better and then 25% who are easily worse.

As for "what am I trying to say", this is what I did say...

"Meh...he is one of the three CBs drafted in the 2nd round of the 2019 draft who is playing more than 50% of defensive snaps. That is out of the seven CBs drafted that round. I also can't say that Trayvon Mullin and Sean Murphy-Bunting are significantly better than Murphy. Furthermore, the only CB drafted ahead of Murphy was Deandre Baker. All in all, we might have landed the best CB in the 2019 draft even if it turns out to be a terrible draft class for CBs."

You proceeded to list other players and then stated they were "much better" than Byron Murphy which is not true at all.

If you want to call those players you listed "good" and Murphy has better stats and plays significantly more snaps, then you are essentially calling Murphy "good".

In your opinion. In my opinion, and the opinion of many here, Murphy has been poor.

And when I have watched the other guys I've mentioned I've been more impressed.

I'm also willing to admit that it might not be Murphy. It may well be Vance. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

 

[Krangodnzr]

(EDIT: Adding for context. Byron Murphy has played 187 defensive snaps this year (95.9%).)

Ya-Sin has played 46 snaps this year and was meh last year. I am not sure where you are getting that he is better.

Williams has played 44 snaps this year and has 2 passes defensed and 6 solo tackles on his career. Come on man.

The Saints list Gardner-Johnson as S so I am not sure how he factors in...

And lets dig into Sean Murphy Bunting for a sec.

Byron Murphy is giving up a 56.3% comp % to opposing QBs on 16 targets. Has 4 solo tackles and 2 passes def.

SMB is giving up a 78.6% comp % to opposing QBs on 14 targets. He has 7 solo tackles and 1 pass def.

I don't see how you can extrapolate those stats into asserting that SMB has been "much better" than Byron Murphy.

Finally...Jamel Dean is also giving up a higher comp% to opposing QBs despite being not being a starter and is actually getting targeted more. So you are arguing that Murphy is worse than this guy despite playing 20% more snaps, getting targeted less, and holding opposing QBs to a lower comp %.

Get this weak argument out of here.

Nice breakdown.

I think it's easy for us all to remember failures of a player over success.

 

[BritCard]

Back to safeties I have to admit I feel bad for Chris Banjo. I know we all hated some on him starting but he's actually played pretty well and would have had 2 INTs if not for dumb penalties.

Tough on him to finally get a starting job at 31 and lose playing time. Chances are Jalen is back by the time he's healthy.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Why no look at Earl Thomas, he on the market?

 

[Chopper0080]

In your opinion. In my opinion, and the opinion of many here, Murphy has been poor.

And when I have watched the other guys I've mentioned I've been more impressed.

I'm also willing to admit that it might not be Murphy. It may well be Vance. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Well...I gave you stats to back up my opinion and you responded with speculation so I think that tells the story.

You say your eyes tell you the difference and that is what leads to message boards being silly. Neither of us are professional scouts. We can watch games and make an opinion, but when stats contradict that opinion, we may need to reevaluate.

You made the assertion that Murphy has been poor.

I stated that he is average and actually one of the best CBs in his draft class even if it may turn out to be a bad draft class.

You claimed that my statement was inaccurate and that other players were better without providing anything to back that up.

I responded to that with stats that disproved your claim and reassert my statement.

You then made up a story about Murphy's level of competition.

Once called on that, you have changed the argument to "lots of people on this board think he is poor" and we should just differ.

Ultimately, Murphy has been average overall and one of the top 3 better CBs in his draft class. You can disagree with that all you want, but the stats back it up. So, you can either stick your head in the sand and maintain that an average player is bad OR you can reevaluate that maybe he is just not as good as you would like him to be, but that doesn't make him bad.

 

[BritCard]

Well...I gave you stats to back up my opinion and you responded with speculation so I think that tells the story.

You say your eyes tell you the difference and that is what leads to message boards being silly. Neither of us are professional scouts. We can watch games and make an opinion, but when stats contradict that opinion, we may need to reevaluate.

You made the assertion that Murphy has been poor.

I stated that he is average and actually one of the best CBs in his draft class even if it may turn out to be a bad draft class.

You claimed that my statement was inaccurate and that other players were better without providing anything to back that up.

I responded to that with stats that disproved your claim and reassert my statement.

You then made up a story about Murphy's level of competition.

Once called on that, you have changed the argument to "lots of people on this board think he is poor" and we should just differ.

Ultimately, Murphy has been average overall and one of the top 3 better CBs in his draft class. You can disagree with that all you want, but the stats back it up. So, you can either stick your head in the sand and maintain that an average player is bad OR you can reevaluate that maybe he is just not as good as you would like him to be, but that doesn't make him bad.

I said he's been below average. You said average. There's a lot of words here to qualify a fairly insignificant difference.

I'm not concerned how his class has been. He was the #33 pick and so far has not been worth the pick.

But as I say that could well be Vance.