If Sterling matches the offer sheet for Q, regardless of the Kobe situation, what exactly did our actions accomplish? It seems to me we tied our own hands. What are the pros and cons of this offer in your eyes? Just curious. Dave
If Clips match, what did we accomplish?
- Thread starter Dave64
- Start date
I understand the risk, but the biggest risk is the lost opportunity cost. I guess the Suns figured the opportunity cost was an overpaid, undertalented big guy, so they rolled the dice. One of the problems with this offer is the trade speculation just keeps mounting. If no trades are done, then a lot of Suns players have seen their names in trades that never had a chance. With veterans, they know it is part of the game, but with our young guys, I think it may bother them more. Just a thought.
binkar
ASFN Lifer
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Posts
- 2,672
- Reaction score
- 52
Dave64 said:
What did we accomplish if we sit and do nothing? Its a risk no doubt, but I like the risk because it potentially gives us the best player availbable for our money.
You have to go after the player you want most, it might not turn out in the suns favor but the suns did everything in their power to get him and I like that.
I like the effort to get Q also, but the chances of the Cilppers not matching that offer is about 10%! Kobe is a Laker for life, and Sterling will spend the money just to keep some butts in the building. That is why he kept Brand and Maggette and passed on Miller and Odom. Q will resign with the Clips. I think the Suns know that will happen.
Gambo and Ash were talking about putting in clauses into the offer that will make it difficult for the Clippers to match. Gambo even jked about: "if we finish in last place, then we will owe you $5M." That is kind of funny because the Clips will finsih in last and we probably won't. Ash's response was, "if we finish in second place in our city, then we owe you $10M." He then realized that the Suns are the only NBA team in PHX. It was pretty funny.
Seriously, can the Suns put stuff in that offer that would scare Sterling off?
Gambo and Ash were talking about putting in clauses into the offer that will make it difficult for the Clippers to match. Gambo even jked about: "if we finish in last place, then we will owe you $5M." That is kind of funny because the Clips will finsih in last and we probably won't. Ash's response was, "if we finish in second place in our city, then we owe you $10M." He then realized that the Suns are the only NBA team in PHX. It was pretty funny.
Seriously, can the Suns put stuff in that offer that would scare Sterling off?
devilalum
Heavily Redacted
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 16,776
- Reaction score
- 3,187
Dave64 said:
I read that Brands contract is like that. He gets his entire contract before the first game of the year?
As I see it, there are three phases of free agency:
1. the opening flurry, where teams target players and try to lock them up quickly;
2. the middlegame, where teams that still have needs and money look for the best available players to fill those needs;
3. the endgame, where players start getting desperate to latch on to a team and might sign for bargain prices; and finally
4. during the season itself, when unused cap space can be used to facilitate trades and pick up talent and/or draft picks.
Right now, we're in phase 2, and the Suns have already worked their way down to their plan C (Q-Rich, after Ginobili and Turkoglu + something else). I don't think there's a plan D, so if the Clippers match Q-Rich, the Suns could easily be holding on to their cap space for a long time beyond July 29.
If somebody offers Greg Ostertag a boatload of cash between now and July 29, my guess is that the Suns won't be too concerned that they're not able to match that offer.
1. the opening flurry, where teams target players and try to lock them up quickly;
2. the middlegame, where teams that still have needs and money look for the best available players to fill those needs;
3. the endgame, where players start getting desperate to latch on to a team and might sign for bargain prices; and finally
4. during the season itself, when unused cap space can be used to facilitate trades and pick up talent and/or draft picks.
Right now, we're in phase 2, and the Suns have already worked their way down to their plan C (Q-Rich, after Ginobili and Turkoglu + something else). I don't think there's a plan D, so if the Clippers match Q-Rich, the Suns could easily be holding on to their cap space for a long time beyond July 29.
If somebody offers Greg Ostertag a boatload of cash between now and July 29, my guess is that the Suns won't be too concerned that they're not able to match that offer.
I think it just came down to how much the Phoenix Suns thought all the remaining players were worth. I think they figure that these big men are going to be drastically overpaid, they offered as much as they thought Turkoglu was worth and were outbid, and they don't think Ginobili is worth as much as he's going to get. At this point that want depth and pieces that will be movable if there are deals to be made.
Joe Mama
Joe Mama
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 22,115
- Reaction score
- 6,551
It is a way of putting pressure on the Clips, especially if Kobe takes his sweet time. If Kobe puts off his decision, the Clips will be forced to let Q go or lose their chance at Kobe. If Kobe signs with the Clips, we know Q will be available. Our only risk is if Kobe agrees quickly with someone else. At that point I expect the Clips will resign Q.
I am enjoying the fact that the Suns are bombing the FA plans of other teams this summer. Getting Cuban's goat was a kick.
BTW, did anyone else notice the blurb on Hoopshype that said that a person who actually looked at the offer sheet the Suns gave Nash, said it was a 6 year 60 million $ deal. Thats a lot different than 5 for 65.
I am enjoying the fact that the Suns are bombing the FA plans of other teams this summer. Getting Cuban's goat was a kick.
BTW, did anyone else notice the blurb on Hoopshype that said that a person who actually looked at the offer sheet the Suns gave Nash, said it was a 6 year 60 million $ deal. Thats a lot different than 5 for 65.
George O'Brien
ASFN Icon
JCSunsfan said:
It would be. Right now we don't really know how much cap space the Suns have. A million dollar difference for this season could be huge.
se7en
Go SUNS Go
I agree. The Suns moves have been fantastic. They have ruined free agency for many team. Very calculated moves. They've ruined Dallas and killed the Lakers best option at moving Shaq. And now they've forced the hand of the only team in the hunt for Kobe. If the Clippers match Q then they don't get Kobe.
So where does that leave Kobe? Shaq is now essentially forced to stay in Los Angeles for lack of trade options and Kobe doesn't want to play with him. The only other team with cap space is Denver. We know that Kobe is only using the Nuggets for leverage. So this leads back to one thing...
The Suns. Could the Suns and Kobe be forcing the Lakers into a sign and trade? Marion and JJ? I think the Lakers would have to look at that. Kobe has to "look like" he'd be willing to sign with Denver or the Clippers in order to have any leverage in a forced sign and trade with the Suns.
I don't think the Suns are out of this thing yet.
So where does that leave Kobe? Shaq is now essentially forced to stay in Los Angeles for lack of trade options and Kobe doesn't want to play with him. The only other team with cap space is Denver. We know that Kobe is only using the Nuggets for leverage. So this leads back to one thing...
The Suns. Could the Suns and Kobe be forcing the Lakers into a sign and trade? Marion and JJ? I think the Lakers would have to look at that. Kobe has to "look like" he'd be willing to sign with Denver or the Clippers in order to have any leverage in a forced sign and trade with the Suns.
I don't think the Suns are out of this thing yet.
se7en
Go SUNS Go
Thanks. Sometimes I have a wild imagination. I also enjoy debating conspiracy theories... LOL ;-).
Hey it's either contribute this to the board or be like everyone else and toss out some trade idea where the Suns trade Eisley and a slice of chedder for Shaq or Duncan or whatever.
Personally it's more fun and creative this way. And so far fetched that it may actually appear to be more realistic than most of the proposed trades.
Hey it's either contribute this to the board or be like everyone else and toss out some trade idea where the Suns trade Eisley and a slice of chedder for Shaq or Duncan or whatever.
Personally it's more fun and creative this way. And so far fetched that it may actually appear to be more realistic than most of the proposed trades.
George O'Brien
ASFN Icon
Back to the original question, I'm not sure what it would accomplish other than screw up the Clippers. I seriously doubt that Kobe will do anything until August, so the Clips face losting Q and getting nothing in return.
It does bring up an interesting issue. If the Clippers signed Q before signing any free agents, the amount they pay would count against their cap. It appears that if they sign a free agent before signing Q, they get to match his salary even though it takes them over the cap. Is this correct?
It does bring up an interesting issue. If the Clippers signed Q before signing any free agents, the amount they pay would count against their cap. It appears that if they sign a free agent before signing Q, they get to match his salary even though it takes them over the cap. Is this correct?
Goldfield
Formally known as BEERZ
Yes, I had the same thought. I just didnt know how to type it out as clear as youse7en said:
They not only are going after guys that can help, they are also(as small as it may seem) increasing their chances of a sign & trade with the Lakers for Kobe....
Are they really this smart...?
George O'Brien
ASFN Icon
BEERZ said:Yes, I had the same thought. I just didnt know how to type it out as clear as you
They not only are going after guys that can help, they are also(as small as it may seem) increasing their chances of a sign & trade with the Lakers for Kobe....
Are they really this smart...?
There is no way the Suns can force a sign and trade, they don't have the cap space. Taking the Clippers off the board and by going after Manu, helping to take the Spurs off the board, it would greatly reduce Kobe's options.
BTW, one radio guy joked that Kobe is negotiating with the Nuggets on the hope that there will be a Nuggets fan on the jury.
Chaplin
Better off silent
George O'Brien said:
The Suns wouldn't force the sign and trade, Kobe would. How could we force the Lakers to do a sign and trade with their own free agent?
Goldfield
Formally known as BEERZ
Forgive me, I have "tasted" afew Ultras.George O'Brien said:
But with Marion being the main contract we should beable to make the numbers work on a sign & trade for Kobe...
Thats still does nothing for our center position tho.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
BEERZ said:Yes, I had the same thought. I just didnt know how to type it out as clear as you
They not only are going after guys that can help, they are also(as small as it may seem) increasing their chances of a sign & trade with the Lakers for Kobe....
Are they really this smart...?
I disagree. They are actually decreasing their chances of a sign and trade. By slowly killing options for Kobe to leave, the Lakers realize the chances of him bolting are getting smaller. If we take out the clipps chance to sign Kobe (by them matching this offer), and with SA signing Manu, only Denver, Atlanta or Utah has enough money to get him.
No one honestly thinks he will sign in any of those places. The only way he could force a S&T is by claiming he will in fact sign there, and I think the Lakers call that bluff.
cly2tw
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2002
- Posts
- 5,832
- Reaction score
- 0
thegrahamcrackr said:
He still has the option Clippers, particularly if they don't match Suns' for Q. If the rumored trade of Shaq for Grant and Odom is true, Kobe might not like the outlook of the Lakers and leave to the Clipps. In that case, the Lakers will have the following choice, assuming Kobe/Shaq won't coexist:
1. Trade Shaq for Grant and Odom. Lose Kobe. Wait for Grant's contract comes off the book, while accumulating lottory picks in between, to rebuild in say 5 years.
2. Keep Shaq, Kobe signs with Clipps. Wait for Shaq's contract expiration in two years and rebuild with 35 mil or so cap space.
3. Keep Shaq, trade Kobe to a team he likes while getting good compensation, like to the Suns. Kobe + George for Marion + Eisley + CJ + right on Vujanic + Bull's pick. With Malone coming back and MLE still not spent, say signing Dice, they will be a contender still.
elindholm
edited for content
It appears that if they sign a free agent before signing Q, they get to match his salary even though it takes them over the cap. Is this correct?
It's a bit more complicated than that. The Clippers can't retain Richardson's Bird rights if they renounce him -- but they can't use all of their cap space unless they renounce him. I haven't looked at the numbers, but the amount of cap space taken up by an unrenounced free agent is related to that free agent's previous year's salary. It's something like 125%, but it depends on a whole mess of other factors I can't keep track of.
Most likely, the Clippers will retain their rights to Richardson up until the moment that they have a better plan for their cap space. What they can't do is use up all of their space on other free agents, then sit back and match someone else's offer to Richardson.
It's a bit more complicated than that. The Clippers can't retain Richardson's Bird rights if they renounce him -- but they can't use all of their cap space unless they renounce him. I haven't looked at the numbers, but the amount of cap space taken up by an unrenounced free agent is related to that free agent's previous year's salary. It's something like 125%, but it depends on a whole mess of other factors I can't keep track of.
Most likely, the Clippers will retain their rights to Richardson up until the moment that they have a better plan for their cap space. What they can't do is use up all of their space on other free agents, then sit back and match someone else's offer to Richardson.
Similar threads
