If Kiper Says it, it must be wrong...

[kerouac9]

I'm not going to post the article, because it's on ESPN Insider, and I don't want to get sued by Disney, but I'll supply the link...

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/story?id=1532485

It's Kiper's mailbag, and someone asks if the Cards should take Leftwich at #6 or, if not him, Ragone or Boller in round 2.

Mel responds, "If I were the Cardinals, I would not take anyone other than a quarterback." He says that Blake is not the answer in Arizona, that he's inconsistent, will lose games late, etc. And says that if Leftwich is there at #6, we might not be able to pass on him.

If nothing else, I think this proves that the Cards will not be taking Byron Leftwich with the #6 pick in the draft. Kiper is a good reporter, but his preditions are usually pretty off, and is a really bad predictor. The fact that he doesn't even mention McCown is extremely suspicious, considering that he liked him as much as Kurt Kittner last year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'm not going to post the article, because it's on ESPN Insider, and I don't want to get sued by Disney, but I'll supply the link...

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/story?id=1532485

It's Kiper's mailbag, and someone asks if the Cards should take Leftwich at #6 or, if not him, Ragone or Boller in round 2.

Mel responds, "If I were the Cardinals, I would not take anyone other than a quarterback." He says that Blake is not the answer in Arizona, that he's inconsistent, will lose games late, etc. And says that if Leftwich is there at #6, we might not be able to pass on him.

If nothing else, I think this proves that the Cards will not be taking Byron Leftwich with the #6 pick in the draft. Kiper is a good reporter, but his preditions are usually pretty off, and is a really bad predictor. The fact that he doesn't even mention McCown is extremely suspicious, considering that he liked him as much as Kurt Kittner last year.

I disagree with him on Blake, he's not a great QB but he's not a guy who loses games on his own. That said, I agree if Leftwich(or Palmer) is really going to slip to 6 it's going to be very tough for us to pass because both guys can be "elite" NFL QB's. Blake is better than either right now but Blake never was and never will be a franchise QB and both Palmer and Leftwich might wind up franchise QB's.

FYI Pasquarelli says it's a lead pipe cinch someone will take Drew Henson(he says 4th or 5th round) but he doesn't believe the rumors that he may go in the first round. I bet the NFL is watching him closely to make sure he doesn't try to maneuver the draft so he can guarantee a specific team he'll quit baseball if they draft him in a higher round(like say round 1). That's what the rumor was that there were teams who were willing to use a #1 pick on Henson if he guaranteed he'd sign.

I think the emergence of Boller is probably hurting Henson there's going to be fewer teams willing to take the risk on a guy out of football for so long.I still say in 5 years Henson will be the best QB from this draft.

 

[Dan H]

I'd take a flier on Henson in the 4th round.

If nothing else, if he refuses to play for the Cardinals, we could trade his draft rights to a team he DID want to play for.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Dan H
I'd take a flier on Henson in the 4th round.

If nothing else, if he refuses to play for the Cardinals, we could trade his draft rights to a team he DID want to play for.

Like the Yankees (-:

That's what is scaring NFL teams Henson has played this game before. He used Michigan to get a bigger bonus out of the Yankees. Then he wouldn't commit to baseball so they traded him to Cincinnati. Then he said he'd quit football and immediately after Cincy traded him back to New York. Basically he told Cincy if they didn't trade him he'd go to the NFL draft, if they traded him to the Yankees, he'd quit football entirely. Makes him sound like a bad kid but he's really not he just knew he wanted to be a Yankee and used leverage to make it happen.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Word is he's struggled to hit .200 at AAA for the Yanks and they are wondering if he'll ever make it to "the show."

I'll go on record as saying he'll be in the NFL by 2004 at the latest.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cardinal Bob
Word is he's struggled to hit .200 at AAA for the Yanks and they are wondering if he'll ever make it to "the show."

I'll go on record as saying he'll be in the NFL by 2004 at the latest.

That's actually what my post is about, latest word is Henson is telling NFL people he's willing to quit baseball. This is why teams are certain he'll be drafted, the question is just when and that all hinges on how solid his guarantee is he'll quit. If he "might" quit, teams will pick him and hold his rights, if he's a lock to quit, he might go late first round(more like 2-3).

Henson was so bad in the Arizona Fall League the Yankees went to plan B and signed another 3B, he couldn't hit or field in the AFL.
He's got major league talent he just can't hit the curve and everyone who sees him says he's pressing so hard out of fear of being a bust he's simply making it worse. I think it's a miracle if he's not on an NFL roster this year.

Frankly I think he should have stuck to football all along but how do you hold a grudge against a kid who wants to be a Yankee so badly he puts his career on hold to try and do it?

 

[kerouac9]

Not to bring this back from becoming a Drew Henson thread...

PFW has an updated Mock out now, and has the Cards taking Leftwich at #6, and Taylor Jacobs at #37. This is an idiotic mock, considering they also have the Raiders taking Willis McGahee at #31 and Kelley Washington at #32. If the Cards draft offense in #1 and #2, we're going to go 3-13, be the laugingstock of the leage, scattering those three wins throughout the season, and will be in an excellent position to pick up Roy Williams in 2004. Boo! It has Suggs going to the Bears and Newman going to the Cowboys.

Personally, I think that Dallas trades out of #5 and someone (maybe Carolina?) comes up and takes Leftwich, if someone doesn't work out a deal with the Texans to come up there to take him. I think that America's Crackwagon would love to trade down and pick up a couple of players like Marcus Trufant and E.J. Henderson, and that Houston (who PFW tabs for taking Andre Johnson) wants to get someone like Jordan Gross and Kelley Peterson.

For those of you who want to trade TJ to Houston to move up: ESPN said that Stacey Mack is probably going to sign there to compete for the starting job...

 

[Card Trader]

I'll say it again folks, listen closely, we have our QB of the future, his name is Josh McCown....I love him, from the depths of my heart. I will blindly follow him and argue that he is the future. We didn't draft him with the 4,321 overall pick for nothing.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Not to bring this back from becoming a Drew Henson thread...

PFW has an updated Mock out now, and has the Cards taking Leftwich at #6, and Taylor Jacobs at #37. This is an idiotic mock, considering they also have the Raiders taking Willis McGahee at #31 and Kelley Washington at #32. If the Cards draft offense in #1 and #2, we're going to go 3-13, be the laugingstock of the leage, scattering those three wins throughout the season, and will be in an excellent position to pick up Roy Williams in 2004. Boo! It has Suggs going to the Bears and Newman going to the Cowboys.

Personally, I think that Dallas trades out of #5 and someone (maybe Carolina?) comes up and takes Leftwich, if someone doesn't work out a deal with the Texans to come up there to take him. I think that America's Crackwagon would love to trade down and pick up a couple of players like Marcus Trufant and E.J. Henderson, and that Houston (who PFW tabs for taking Andre Johnson) wants to get someone like Jordan Gross and Kelley Peterson.

For those of you who want to trade TJ to Houston to move up: ESPN said that Stacey Mack is probably going to sign there to compete for the starting job...

Mack will win the job he's very good. I've read Houston signed 2-3 OL's and no longer want to draft Gross, in fact Suggs is being mentioned for them too.

I love Roy Williams but I agree I don't want to take the season to get Roy Williams.

That said, unless Suggs is there I'm not sure we can pass on Leftwich if he's at 6, DL is more need but a franchise QB is worth a lot more in the long run.

The thing I keep remembering is the Cards were quite specific in telling both Jake and then Blake that they had to compete with QB's on the roster or who we drafted. I think it's quite clear they're at least considering picking a QB fairly high and they wanted to make sure Blake knew it.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Mack will win the job he's very good. I've read Houston signed 2-3 OL's and no longer want to draft Gross, in fact Suggs is being mentioned for them too.

I love Roy Williams but I agree I don't want to take the season to get Roy Williams.

That said, unless Suggs is there I'm not sure we can pass on Leftwich if he's at 6, DL is more need but a franchise QB is worth a lot more in the long run.

The thing I keep remembering is the Cards were quite specific in telling both Jake and then Blake that they had to compete with QB's on the roster or who we drafted. I think it's quite clear they're at least considering picking a QB fairly high and they wanted to make sure Blake knew it.

Yeah, but the Texans still don't have a 100% LT, and if they don't get someone in the first three rounds, I'd hate to know David Carr...

I think if Suggs isn't there, we still draft D. Newman, Trufant, Robertson, and Kennedy can all help make this team better overall, especially in their division (with young, good WRs on all the other teams [used to be all 4 teams; what happened?]), but I think that Kennedy or Roberston could have the greatest impact on the D as a whole, possibly more than Suggs, although people are going to hate me for saying that.

I still think we take D in the first two rounds this season (Kennedy/Robertson, Dennis Weathersby/Sammy Davis or Newman/Trufant, Kenny Peterson/Cory Redding), then take Eli Manning as the QB of the future next year if McCown doesn't show significant improvement in 2003.

Side Note: PFW has Rien Long taken 62nd overall, to the Iggles.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well

Wether we draft defense or not, this team isn't going to the playoffs next year anyway.

You might be talking a difference between 4 wins or 6 wins.

 

[JeffGollin]

If nothing else, I think this proves that the Cards will not be taking Byron Leftwich with the #6 pick in the draft. Kiper is a good reporter, but his preditions are usually pretty off, and is a really bad predictor.
I enjoy reading Melvin the Kipe because quite often he sees and reports the same things I see about a player.

But that doesn't mean he knows what's going on inside a team's war room. And it doesn't mean he's always right about a player. But give him credit when he is right - i.e. his take on Tommy Knight (plays too far off and breaks late on the ball) proved to be 100% accurate.

And it doesn't mean he knows what's best for a given team either. And - because he likes to get a jump on his player analysis before the senior college football season begins - some of those early observations look really dumb by the end of the season and his follow up analyses inconsistent with his earlier takes.

But despite all the warts, I'd rather have Mel talking draft than nobody talking draft.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yeah the Kiper

Hatred is a little silly. Not many guys put their asses on the line year in and year out. On the whole, he is correct more often than not.

If Kiper was correct all the time, he would be on some NFL team's payroll making millions for being the perfect draft guy.

 

[kerouac9]

Re: Yeah the Kiper

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Hatred is a little silly. Not many guys put their asses on the line year in and year out. On the whole, he is correct more often than not.

If Kiper was correct all the time, he would be on some NFL team's payroll making millions for being the perfect draft guy.

Hey, I put my ass out there on the line here everyday. Have I told you about Kerouac9's Lock of the Draft?

Kiper's all right; I totally agree with Gollin: I'd rather have him than no one giving me insider info and analysis, even if he thinks there are 25 players that ought to be picked in the Top 10 every season, and the each of the 2 first-round QBs are going to play in 10 Pro Bowls. Unlike, Gollin, I don't care whether Kiper tells me things I don't agree with or not. I don't watch college football, so I have no idea who most of these players are, so I'm glad I have Kiper and other to tell me why I care who the hell Artose Pinter is, since we'll probably be using our second-round pick on him.

Also, I think the Cards get three compensatory picks next year, two third rounders for Jake and DB, and a fourth or fifth for Mar Tay.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Ragone

Looking for an excuse to use this....

 

[pinnacle]

I am not that convinced we will get a ton of compensation picks next year.. don't they take into account who you lost and who you signed..so they may give us some credit for guys we lost - but if we sign guys it actually offsets to some extent (Someone will have to clarify this). While emmit and hodgins do not count because they were cut - they will factor in that we signed jackson, blake, darling, maybe holliday if he ends up here..and it depends on the production that jake, boston and martay have next season vs. the production of the guys we signed...hard to tell on defensive guys like jackson - but I guess there is a formula or something..and injuries play a factor..if any of the fa's are injured and miss big parts of the season..it changes the picks...

 

[Walter Mitchell]

Mel Kiper said on ESPN radio last night that he believes the Cardinals will draft a DT or DE at #6 regardless of whether Leftwich is there...why? Because he thinks the Cardinals think highly enough of last year's 3rd round pick Josh McCown to overlook the QB position in favor of addressing the team's most glaring need: a pass rush.

I think Mel is right. I think the Cardinals will use its first two picks in the draft on pass rushers. Like I said to Cheesebeef, however, it wouldn't be my choice to bypass Leftwich if he is on the board at #6. That's why I have been hoping the Cardinals would sign two free agent pass rushers, so they could feel free to take Leftwich. Hasn't happened, yet. But it looks like the Cardinals may once again head into the draft without signing any pass rushers.

What's curious to me is why the Cardinals re-signed DT Russell Davis if they are possibly going to draft another DT in the first round. Maybe, insurance against injuries or holdouts?

 

[JeffGollin]

What's curious to me is why the Cardinals re-signed DT Russell Davis if they are possibly going to draft another DT in the first round.
Roger that. The only thing I can figure is that - like we all used to say about James Dexter, Matt Joyce or Joe Wolf a few years back - maybe Davis has some juicy pictures stashed away somewhere...

 

[Walter Mitchell]

Jeff...chill out on the Holliday jokes, will ya? Pun intended. The Holliday on Ice joke is priceless! LOFL, man!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Walter Mitchell

What's curious to me is why the Cardinals re-signed DT Russell Davis if they are possibly going to draft another DT in the first round. Maybe, insurance against injuries or holdouts?

Solely to heat up the competition at tackle and provide better depth. If Russell is battling Dwyer for a backup job to Robertson, I would be pretty happy with that!

 

[Harpo]

I hope we don't take Lefty. I have heard that he may have more problems w/his leg than originlly was thought. There is even a rumour that he may need surgery to replace the rod in his leg with a longer on right after the draft. We dont' need to gamble on an injury risk with this high a pick. Also, it is starting to look like the Bears are going after Suggs. Either way it should be interesting.

 

[Zeno]

I posted on another topic about our compensation pick, it was a 6th round pick I can't remember what pick overall but it was about what we'd expect.