If losing trend continues, when will Jerry C. pull the rip cord?

[Yuma]

OK. 3-6 record. It's early in the season. However, if we lose more games, when does Jerry C. step in and go to "a new direction" for the team? I know it's too early to panic yet, but I think if we start 8-16, or 10-20 record, Jerry C. will start getting antsy! Maybe you guy think it will take a worse record, or maybe Jerry won't wait that long. Do you guys think, bottom-line, Jerry would be willing to see the Suns miss the playoffs this year and keep Frank Johnson?

 

[creed]

Frank wont last at this rate. Jerry will pull the rip cord and tie it around Franks neck personally. We have too much talent for this to be happening and some of these losses look ugly...especially that Jazz game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

10-12 losses and under .400

 

[Forrestham]

I think we need to bring in someone from outside the organization. We need a veteran coach who will not be outcoached. My choice is George Karl. If D'Antoni is made the coach, I do not see a difference. Karl was successful in Seattle. Don't know what happened in Milwaukee

 

[elindholm]

One (other) problem with Karl is that he'll demand a bazillion dollars, which the Colangelos will never pay. They need to find a veteran coach who is hungry to work again and wouldn't command an obscene salary.

What kind of relationship did Matt Goukas have with Hardaway? Were they in Orlando at the same time?

 

[cly2tw]

They have been giving max contracts to the wrong players, Googs, Penny, Marion. They could afford much better coaches if they saved any of those money.

 

[Errntknght]

You know the C's do not want to admit so soon that they made another boo-boo in signing FJ to a 3 year deal. It occurs to me that they might step in and tell him to put one assistant coach in charge of the offense and another, the defense. Larry Bird did that in Indiana - Carlisle being in charge of the defense. Frank will be the coordinator and run the floor game - except he'll be required to sit down and pretend he knows what's taking place. I'm not claiming he competent to run the floor game but he has to appear to be the coach. When the news leaks out they'll let FJ call a press conference and say that it was all his idea.

 

[Joe Mama]

I know Frank Johnson signed a three-year deal, but I was under the impression that much of it was not guaranteed.

Joe Mama

 

[fordronken]

Is it wrong that I'm getting to the point of rooting for losses so Frank Johnson gets fired?

 

[elindholm]

Is it wrong that I'm getting to the point of rooting for losses so Frank Johnson gets fired?

Yes, because it won't work. Frank Johnson is not going to be fired. The organization has made so many poor decisions over the last few years, they can't admit that they made another one.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by fordronken
Is it wrong that I'm getting to the point of rooting for losses so Frank Johnson gets fired?

If it has to happen sooner would defenitely be better than later.

3-6 isn't the end of the world but 15-30 is a death sentence.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Forrestham
I think we need to bring in someone from outside the organization. We need a veteran coach who will not be outcoached.

Once the Suns were established in the '70's, the only "outside" coach brought in was Cotton Fitzsimmons (who was brought back, but with outside NBA coaching experience).

Cotton bringing in Barkley led to the only four years in Suns history when we made things happen, rather than try to keep up.

If they bring in a coach with fresh ideas, it will have to be someone strong enough to say to Jerry, "You brought me in to coach, now let me do it.", and "Bryan, this is what's missing." And that will probably lead to conflicts between them.

Promoting four Assistants, all former Guards, with no NBA coaching experience was not a coincidence. It keeps the Suns a guard oriented team and the Head Coach under Jerry's thumb.

Despite that philosophy backfiring again, will Jerry relinquish his hold on the Head Coach position? I don't think so. The only departure will be promoting an Assistant who played, and has trained, a frontcourt power position, Mark Iavaroni. It would be a medium step in the right direction.

 

[elindholm]

The only departure will be promoting an Assistant who played, and has trained, a frontcourt power position, Mark Iavaroni. It would be a medium step in the right direction.

At best. Even when the Suns use conventional lineups most of the time, as they did last night, they still look disorganized on both ends of the floor.

They need a coach who has both the authority and the experience to teach fundamentals. Nice guys enjoying their first head-coaching jobs and who are the same age as the players won't get it done.

 

[slinslin]

Mark Iavaroni is probably a good assistant coach but definately not a NBA head coach in my opinion.

They should finally get a headcoach who is proven like Karl, Tomjanovic or Fratello or they should get a former player who was a leader in his playing days.
Like Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, David Robinson, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek... some of those guys would make a good coach in my opinion. Maybe even Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle,
Karl Malone would be a pretty good coach I imagine.

I didn't think Isiah Thomas was a bad coach either.

I have no problems wether our coach is a guard/forward or center. But it wouldn't be bad to get someone who has made a name for himself already.

How would you feel if you are an allstar and have some former scrub (who hasn't accomplished anything as a coach) telling you how to play the game?

 

[creed]

Originally posted by fordronken
Is it wrong that I'm getting to the point of rooting for losses so Frank Johnson gets fired?

I'm starting to think the same thing. I'm getting desperate to get rid of that guy. And I'm sure the C's will dump him if this goes on much longer. It may take just take a few more losses so lets hope!

 

[boisesuns]

if he gets fired, they better get someone good in there. i haven't been too impressed with head coaching hires over the last few years.

i think we need some vertran leadership here. someone that can shoot, teach the game and set an example for the players. maybe scott williams comming back will be a good thing.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
Mark Iavaroni is probably a good assistant coach but definately not a NBA head coach in my opinion.

They should finally get a headcoach who is proven like Karl, Tomjanovic or Fratello or they should get a former player who was a leader in his playing days.
Like Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, David Robinson, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek... some of those guys would make a good coach in my opinion. Maybe even Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle,
Karl Malone would be a pretty good coach I imagine.

I didn't think Isiah Thomas was a bad coach either.

I have no problems wether our coach is a guard/forward or center. But it wouldn't be bad to get someone who has made a name for himself already.

How would you feel if you are an allstar and have some former scrub (who hasn't accomplished anything as a coach) telling you how to play the game?

I'm sorry slin, but there are so many problems with this. First of all, how in the world would you be in that position to know whether Ivoroni is a good coach? What are you basing that assessment on?

What makes you think any of those players you mentioned would make a good coach? Michael Jordan? You must be joking.

Isaiah Thomas was not a good head coach. He took a young Indiana team with all whole lot of talent and went virtually nowhere with them in the Eastern conference.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Lets be honest here, if Frank gets fired it will be either Iavaroni or D'Antoni. I can't remember the last coach who wasn't an assistant here.

Even if they want to spend money on a big name coach, who is left? I mean really, there aren't a ton of options anymore.

 

[slinslin]

If Mark Iavaroni was good enough to be a head coach he would have landed a job already. It is not like he didn't try...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Because Mil. is the epitomy of the perfect franchise.......

 

[fordronken]

Usually, players that had great athletic or natural ability have not been great coaches. Great coaches were often players who maximized what they had and were smart players in this league. Isaiah Thomas, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan were tremendous players who worked hard but also had ridiculous natural ability. I think the problem Michael Jordan had with the Wizards was similar to Magic Johnson's as a coach: they expected more from players than they could give. This is why players who were smart, gutsy and overall not-too-talented players often make good coaches.

 

[elindholm]

Are we forgetting about Lenny Wilkins?

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by elindholm
Are we forgetting about Lenny Wilkins?

Lenny Wilkins isn't a very good coach. He took a somewhat talented Toronto team and ran them straight into the ground. He misutilized Vince Carter, didn't get what he should have out of his younger players, and turned a team that was a jump-shot away from the Eastern Conference Finals into the bottom dwellers of the NBA.

Sure, he's the winningest coach in NBA history, but he's also the losingest coach, and has coached the most games. He has I think one championship in all of his thousands of games played. Maybe most importantly, his winning percentage overall is almost identical to our own Frank Johnson's.

Hell, Scott Skiles' winning percentage blows Wilkins out of the water.

 

[fordronken]

I'm not saying that great players can't make great coaches, but would you really want Bernard King standing up on the sidelines?

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by slinslin
They should finally get a headcoach who is proven like Karl

In what way is Karl “proven”?

Yes, he did coach a team that made it to the Finals once. BFD. So did Paul Westphal. And Brian Hill.

In general, Karl’s teams have underachieved when it mattered most. He coached the first #1 seed to lose to a #8 seed, and still the only one to do so in a non-lockout season. He coached the only Dream Team that ever lost a game — and it lost three games, failing to medal at all. Even in the Continental Basketball Association, he coached a team that had a 50-6 regular season record, the best in league history, and lost in the Conference Finals.

Few NBA coaches, if any, have ever accomplished less with more than George Karl.