If PHX didn't have Nash..?

[Irish]

We have a separate area for silly trade proposals.

Just a hint - you cannot expect J-Rich to get you a big name player. An expiring contract is not the same as the player with a longer contract. You use them differently.

 

[Sunburn]

I think JRich could absolutely be used as a centerpiece of a trade package for a big name player. He's offering more than 14 million dollars in expiring cap relief, and an outstanding player in his own right with a fan friendly style. A lot of value rolled into one.

 

[Chaplin]

I think JRich could absolutely be used as a centerpiece of a trade package for a big name player. He's offering more than 14 million dollars in expiring cap relief, and an outstanding player in his own right with a fan friendly style. A lot of value rolled into one.

So if that's your reasoning for trading him, isn't it also pretty good reasoning for KEEPING him?

 

[Sunburn]

So if that's your reasoning for trading him, isn't it also pretty good reasoning for KEEPING him?

Yes, but we have a superfluous amount of perimeter guys on this roster. What this team needs is a dominant big. Imo, JRich holds more value as a trade vessel to bring in a quality frontcourt player. Value that diminishes once his contract expires. Besides the notion that bringing in a quality big now could really round out this roster, allowing JRich's contract to expire gives the club about 10 million in salary cap room, assuming no further additions. A nice sum. A nice player could be brought in for that. However, not as nice as what a JRich trade, at up to 125% of 14.5 million at least, could potentially bring. Plus, most of the interesting bigs in next year's free agency pool are restricted, making a signing difficult; for 10 million, highly unlikely. Referring back to the reasoning of my previous post, I absolutely believe JRich could be the centerpiece of a deal for a big name, thus, JRich has more potential value as a trade-piece.

 

[Irish]

So if that's your reasoning for trading him, isn't it also pretty good reasoning for KEEPING him?

Ideallly you'd like to have J-Rich on a cheaper contract. (Look at what happened with Richard Jefferson). J-Rich has three or fouu decent years in him, but not at the current price.

Initially I was for dumping him, but I am not concerned about teams offering him a huge deal. It looks like he is playing the best ball of his career but the Suns have the depth to deal with it he does leave or they need the cap space.

 

[devilalum]

Yes, but we have a superfluous amount of perimeter guys on this roster. .

JRich is probably the best post up player the Suns have.

 

[Sunburn]

JRich is probably the best post up player the Suns have.

And that's the problem don't you think? That is why I think it's essential to bring in an actual inside guy. JRich gives us the opportunity to bring in a tremendous one.

 

[Chaplin]

And that's the problem don't you think? That is why I think it's essential to bring in an actual inside guy. JRich gives us the opportunity to bring in a tremendous one.

That's not JRich's fault. Skillful post players that can produce as much as JRich don't exactly grow on trees. It's not that easy to just turn around and trade the guy--even if it seems like a no-brainer to most of us. Trade proposals on team message boards are the most homer you can get.

We constantly talk about how great a player would be to another team, but he still is on the Suns. The Suns can advertise JRich as a great contract, but a great contract is good for the Suns as well. We're not going to get a guy that does what we need. It just won't happen.

 

[Sunburn]

That's not JRich's fault.

I never said it was. I said it was the problem. Trading him gives us the opportunity to rectify the problem in a major way.

Skillful post players that can produce as much as JRich don't exactly grow on trees.

Let's not kid ourselves now. JRich is a perimeter player that has the ability to post guys up. He is far from an inside presence. We have many perimeter players, practically no inside guys. Would you take JRich as your inside presence in favor of an actual inside presence?

It's not that easy to just turn around and trade the guy--even if it seems like a no-brainer to most of us. Trade proposals on team message boards are the most homer you can get.

I don't know what trade proposals you're referring to. I said he gives us the opportunity to bring in a quality big. Let's stick to what I said rather than what others have said, and then try to incorporate that into the argument.

We constantly talk about how great a player would be to another team, but he still is on the Suns. The Suns can advertise JRich as a great contract, but a great contract is good for the Suns as well.

I have already outlined my argument why JRich has more value to us as a trade-piece than an expiring contract. I'll refer you back to that.

We're not going to get a guy that does what we need. It just won't happen.

Lol, wouldn't you make a great GM. This is negative speculation based on your desire to make your point and not on any sound evidence. The truth is, we might or we might not. You never know what will become available from here to the trade deadline. Personally, I hope you're wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's not JRich's fault. Skillful post players that can produce as much as JRich don't exactly grow on trees. It's not that easy to just turn around and trade the guy--even if it seems like a no-brainer to most of us. Trade proposals on team message boards are the most homer you can get.

We constantly talk about how great a player would be to another team, but he still is on the Suns. The Suns can advertise JRich as a great contract, but a great contract is good for the Suns as well. We're not going to get a guy that does what we need. It just won't happen.

I don't think JRich is going to get the Suns any star 4/5s, however, he might help get the Suns a good FC on a longer contract especially if the Suns sweeten the deal for the right player(s). I think a team may want to unload a player(s) who are on longer contracts at the trading deadline for JRich's 14M dollar expiring contract. One never knows who might become available with a team wanting to clear salary or a team that is a SG away from getting them over the top. Of course the Suns would be looking for players that can play FC in such a trade. Both teams would have to gain something from the trade for it to happen. Also a lot depends upon who becomes available.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think JRich is going to get the Suns any star 4/5s, however, he might help get the Suns a good FC on a longer contract especially if the Suns sweeten the deal for the right player(s). I think a team may want to unload a player(s) who are on longer contracts at the trading deadline for JRich's 14M dollar expiring contract. One never knows who might become available with a team wanting to clear salary or a team that is a SG away from getting them over the top. Of course the Suns would be looking for players that can play FC in such a trade. Both teams would have to gain something from the trade for it to happen. Also a lot depends upon who becomes available.

If that's the case, they would have done it already.

 

[Chaplin]

I never said it was. I said it was the problem. Trading him gives us the opportunity to rectify the problem in a major way.

Let's not kid ourselves now. JRich is a perimeter player that has the ability to post guys up. He is far from an inside presence. We have many perimeter players, practically no inside guys. Would you take JRich as your inside presence in favor of an actual inside presence?

I don't know what trade proposals you're referring to. I said he gives us the opportunity to bring in a quality big. Let's stick to what I said rather than what others have said, and then try to incorporate that into the argument.

I have already outlined my argument why JRich has more value to us as a trade-piece than an expiring contract. I'll refer you back to that.

Lol, wouldn't you make a great GM. This is negative speculation based on your desire to make your point and not on any sound evidence. The truth is, we might or we might not. You never know what will become available from here to the trade deadline. Personally, I hope you're wrong.

And let's not kid ourselves. You wouldn't make a great GM either. You can't just say "let's trade x player" and it will happen. Trades the fans want rarely, if ever, happen. And those that do are totally surprising. You think any Laker fan in the world would think that they could get Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and few unproven rookies?

Phoenix fans tend to overrate players not on their team and underrate players on their own team. It's a strange phenomenon.

 

[Sunburn]

If that's the case, they would have done it already.

Lol. I guess the door is closed then.

 

[Irish]

I'm not sure this is about our undervalueing our players TO THE SUNS and overvaluing them to other teams. In any case, actual trade proposals can be evaluated, while "we out to get something for somebody" is pointless.

Generally, real trades are due to differing needs. Helo was so upset with the Raptors he was willing to do give backs and the like just to change homes. Leadro was dissatisfied with the minutes he was getting and his style was duplicated by Dragic. So the deal was as much about two teams with guys they wanted to move as much as them getting someone they wanted. With the gacts, it was a natural trade.

IMHO, the challenge of getting a good big is vastly harder. Few teams will trade a quality big for even a great mid sized guy. Yes it happens, but not often.

 

[Sunburn]

And let's not kid ourselves. You wouldn't make a great GM either. You can't just say "let's trade x player" and it will happen. Trades the fans want rarely, if ever, happen. And those that do are totally surprising. You think any Laker fan in the world would think that they could get Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and few unproven rookies?

Phoenix fans tend to overrate players not on their team and underrate players on their own team. It's a strange phenomenon.

You seem to be quite the Negative Nancy. Thank you for bringing up the Laker trade. It nicely illustrates the value of the trade chip we hold.

 

[elindholm]

If Paul forces his way out of New Orleans and the trade somehow doesn't include Okafor, I imagine Okafor will be available to the first team that offers an expiring deal. The Suns could get Okafor for Richardson and probably even get the Hornets to sweeten the deal. For example, Richardson and Warrick (once he can be traded) for Okafor, West, and a protected pick isn't too unrealistic. If Paul leaves, New Orleans has no choice but to clean house altogether. (This trade wouldn't improve the Suns, but it's an example of the kind of thing that figures to be out there for Richardson later in the season.)

 

[Irish]

I don't think Chap is being negitive. Just do your hoemwork. What does the other team eeed?. Who fills in for the guy if he gets traded? Is this an old team or a young tiem and how does the added player fit those needs. Is someone about to retire? Is there conflict, os would every player rather stay put? Do they need to move someone to create space for someone else? Does the team have cap space or are they pushing the luxury tax line? Are there a lot of guys with rookie contracts who are going to soon be RFA's?

None of this is pure theory.

 

[Sunburn]

I don't think Chap is being negitive.

The "Negative Nancy" comment was directed at these:

If that's the case, they would have done it already.

We're not going to get a guy that does what we need. It just won't happen.

And let's not kid ourselves. You wouldn't make a great GM either.

Just do your hoemwork. What does the other team eeed?. Who fills in for the guy if he gets traded? Is this an old team or a young tiem and how does the added player fit those needs. Is someone about to retire? Is there conflict, os would every player rather stay put? Do they need to move someone to create space for someone else? Does the team have cap space or are they pushing the luxury tax line? Are there a lot of guys with rookie contracts who are going to soon be RFA's?

None of this is pure theory.

As Elindholm said, there will be opportunities out there.

 

[Mainstreet]

If that's the case, they would have done it already.

All the chips are not on the table right now. We do not know how teams will look at the trading deadline. Some teams will realize they are going nowhere and some teams will realize they are missing a piece. Also JRich will be more valuable at the trading deadline because about half of his 14M contract will have already been paid by the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

All the chips are not on the table right now. We do not know how teams will look at the trading deadline. Some teams will realize they are going nowhere and some teams will realize they are missing a piece. Also JRich will be more valuable at the trading deadline because about half of his 14M contract will have already been paid by the Suns.

True, he will be valuable at the trade deadline, I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing trading him just because he appears to be of good trade value. The point is, we're fans, we don't know a single thing about what the Suns have done as far as gauging interest in him, if they've done it at all.

If there was interest in such a big expiring contract (and I imagine there has been), isn't it logical to think that the Suns have been contacted by several teams already asking about it? To think that the Suns have to initiate these conversations is ludicrous. I'm sure there's been PLENTY of chatter already surrounding JRich and nothing has come of it.

The problem here is that lt is looking at JRich the expiring contract and not JRich the player. Because call me crazy, but isn't the actual product on the floor important too?

Personally, I'd like the Suns to win, and I think having JRich gets us more wins than having, say, Okafor.

Now, if JRich is used to obtain Paul, then I'd be all for it, but I can't see that happening at all. As I'm sure many others here can't. But Paul is a supreme talent, and there aren't many out there. JRich's expiring is just as valuable to us as it would be to a bottom-feeder team.

 

[Mainstreet]

True, he will be valuable at the trade deadline, I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing trading him just because he appears to be of good trade value. The point is, we're fans, we don't know a single thing about what the Suns have done as far as gauging interest in him, if they've done it at all.

If there was interest in such a big expiring contract (and I imagine there has been), isn't it logical to think that the Suns have been contacted by several teams already asking about it? To think that the Suns have to initiate these conversations is ludicrous. I'm sure there's been PLENTY of chatter already surrounding JRich and nothing has come of it.

The problem here is that lt is looking at JRich the expiring contract and not JRich the player. Because call me crazy, but isn't the actual product on the floor important too?

Personally, I'd like the Suns to win, and I think having JRich gets us more wins than having, say, Okafor.

Now, if JRich is used to obtain Paul, then I'd be all for it, but I can't see that happening at all. As I'm sure many others here can't. But Paul is a supreme talent, and there aren't many out there. JRich's expiring is just as valuable to us as it would be to a bottom-feeder team.

I've always liked JRich's game. He is a good player that should not be traded like KT just to save money. However, I don't think anyone is suggesting the Suns trade JRich if the Suns do not get significantly stronger at FC.

If the Suns could pick up a serviceable big, I'd like to keep JRich and then re-sign him to a more reasonable contract next season.

Edit: On a side note not related to JRich, The Thunder are apparently looking to unload a couple of bigs in Byron Mullens and DJ White. Mullens is a center. White appears to be a PF. It would seem that one of them could be had cheap since they are roster overflow. I've always thought that Mullens would make a good project center but he is really raw. He barely got off the bench last season for The Thunder. He would take patience but I think Gentry and Nash might help him develop. If the Suns would carry over 13 players he might be worth the long term gamble.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68356/20100726/thunder_prefer_trade_to_solve_roster_excess/

 

[Chaplin]

I've always liked JRich's game. He is a good player that should not be traded like KT just to save money. However, I don't think anyone is suggesting the Suns trade JRich if the Suns do not get significantly stronger at FC.

If the Suns could pick up a serviceable big, I'd like to keep JRich and then re-sign him to a more reasonable contract next season.

Edit: On a side note not related to JRich, The Thunder are apparently looking to unload a couple of bigs in Byron Mullens and DJ White. Mullens is a center. White appears to be a PF. It would seem that one of them could be had cheap since they are roster overflow. I've always thought that Mullens would make a good project center but he is really raw. He barely got off the bench last season for The Thunder. He would take patience but I think Gentry and Nash might help him develop. If the Suns would carry over 13 players he might be worth the long term gamble.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68356/20100726/thunder_prefer_trade_to_solve_roster_excess/

I'd be all for that. Of course we'd like a contributor, but either one of those guys would be good to stash on the bench or in the D-League. Better than Taylor Griffin, anyway.

 

[mojorizen7]

This is a very good looking roster(with a big hole in the middle)....ready to compete NOW. A project is not the answer to our problems. Maybe a rook like Lawal steps in and makes a difference,but if we can't count on that then why bring in another unknown?

No....we need a big with experience. Save the projects for when this team becomes more balanced.

 

[Chaplin]

This is a very good looking roster(with a big hole in the middle)....ready to compete NOW. A project is not the answer to our problems. Maybe a rook like Lawal steps in and makes a difference,but if we can't count on that then why bring in another unknown?

No....we need a big with experience. Save the projects for when this team becomes more balanced.

I don't think anybody is thinking that they would be a contributor--just that it might be nice to have a young big man to develop.

 

[Errntknght]

We have three young bigs in developement already, I think more is overdoing a good thing.