If the Suns are committed to winning.

[JS22]

I agree Lamp has alt of upside. but he is 19 and this team can make a run now. Lampe wont be ready for atleast another year or 2. Jacobsen is ok, but he isnt gunna get playing time now with Q in front of him.

A top five pick isnt gunna get you a player as good as Dampier at the 5 spot. Since thats the only need we have right now other than backup PF, it makes alot of sence to me.

Its been over 10 years since the Suns were contenders. You say "give up", I say stand up and take advantage of the state of the NBA right now.

The mighty Lakers have fallen, Dallas has lost Nash, The Kings are dame good but they have not improved and lost Divacs who was very important to that team. The Spurs are gunna be better but I think our team can beat them if we add Damps. I think the Pistons will be very tuff this year. But they are still beatable. The time is NOW, there are no Dominante teams right now and the Suns are primed to make a run if they can add a guy like Damp...

Trading backups & a pick for a startin g center who fills your biggest need is a great trade...

You do have some very valid points. Im just worried about giving up so much for someone who...here we go again... has questionable motivation.

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns are committed to winning they will take advantage of this rare oppertunity to get a solid BIG in Dampier.

The premise of this entire thread is wrong.

The Suns have stated repeatedly that they believe Dampier would not make them a better team.

Getting him would be a rare opportunity to blow up all the good they've done this off season in one move.

IMO the Suns should make a minor move to get a big 6 foul body.

If the center spot turns out to be a big problem then maybe a bigger deal can be made at the deadline.

ANother thing to consider is that the Suns should be much better this year but they're still realistically at least a year away from contending. In addition to the center issue is the fact that this is still one of the youngest teams in the NBA. There is no way this team could make the finals this year no matter who they trade for.

They still have a year to shore up the front court. Next summer that Bulls pick could be used to trade for a good big man and they wouldn't have to loose Marion. Next summer the SUns will also be in a much better position to decide between JJ and Shawn. It seems unlikely that they will keep 2 such similar players with all the other big salaries they have unless Sarver is willing to dig really deep.

 

[arthurracoon]

Keep CJ and Lampe.

Try to get rid of Eisley.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Keep CJ and Lampe.

Try to get rid of Eisley.

 

[Joe Mama]

Keep CJ and Lampe.

Try to get rid of Eisley.

and pull a rabbit out of your hat.

I have never seen with the Phoenix Suns have said that they don't think adding Dampier would make them a better team. In fact they've never really said anything about him. They have said that they didn't want to spend a ton of money on second string quality centers (Foyle, Okur, etc.) like some other teams have done.

Joe Mama

 

[pokerface]

Name 3 centers in the west that Amare or Voskuhl aren't big enough to cover?

Right off the bat I can name two centers...Ming and Duncan. I cant believe that didnt jump out at you. Plus there are numerous excellent powerforwards out west that can be trouble. Actually the list of tough PF's out west is pretty endless....

Plus frankly Amares defense isnt all that yet. And he said he doesnt want to be stuck playing C.

 

[devilalum]

Originally Posted by devilalum
Name 3 centers in the west that Amare or Voskuhl aren't big enough to cover?

Right off the bat I can name two centers...Ming and Duncan. I cant believe that didnt jump out at you. Plus there are numerous excellent powerforwards out west that can be trouble. Actually the list of tough PF's out west is pretty endless....

Plus frankly Amares defense isnt all that yet. And he said he doesnt want to be stuck playing C.

Duncan isn't a center and Amare can handle Ming just fine.

As a matter of fact Amare can probably handle Duncan as well as any center they might pick up.

And Amare is right near the top of that list of tough power forwards.

He doesn't have to play center to cover Ming. Last year he covered Ming when Voskuhl was in the game and I seem to remember a couple of facials.

 

[George O'Brien]

Right off the bat I can name two centers...Ming and Duncan.

Duncan is a power forward (Radoslav Nesterovic if the Spurs starting center).

Without Shaq in the West, most of the centers are defense oriented rather than big scorers: Ratliff, Camby, Foyle, Ervin Johnson, and Wright are all defense oriented. Divac is more of a passer than an shooter. Kamen, Miller, Okur, and Nesterovic can score, but are more finesse than power. Antoine Walker is a center in name only.

My read on it is that most of the time the Suns will need a center who is quick enough to play with the finese centers. Voskuhl has to prove he can do it, but so far he lacks the anticipation to get in position quick enough. Lampe has a lot to learn but should have the mobility to do the job with experience. Vroman is short and lacks the arm length to be a top defensive center, but he has the agressiveness to be disruptive.

Ming is the only guy in the West who should be able to overpower the Suns inside guys. Fortunately, he lackes the personality and won't get the ball much with T-Mac shooting it all the time.

 

[pokerface]

Originally Posted by devilalum
Name 3 centers in the west that Amare or Voskuhl aren't big enough to cover?




Duncan isn't a center and Amare can handle Ming just fine.

As a matter of fact Amare can probably handle Duncan as well as any center they might pick up.

And Amare is right near the top of that list of tough power forwards.

He doesn't have to play center to cover Ming. Last year he covered Ming when Voskuhl was in the game and I seem to remember a couple of facials.

Duncan is a C or PF...whatever he chooses to be. Bottomline Amare cant cover Duncan or Ming over a long series...season or playoffs. Occasional facials doesnt mean much.

As far as Amare being a very good PF in a west full of good PF's that doesnt mean he couldnt use a legit center by his side. Amare himself is a better judge of what he can do and he clearly said that he doesnt want center responsibilities.

 

[George O'Brien]

Duncan is a C or PF...whatever he chooses to be. Bottomline Amare cant cover Duncan or Ming over a long series...season or playoffs. Occasional facials doesnt mean much.

As far as Amare being a very good PF in a west full of good PF's that doesnt mean he couldnt use a legit center by his side. Amare himself is a better judge of what he can do and he clearly said that he doesnt want center responsibilities.

The Suns need at least one more power guy. Amare should not be forced to defend the opponent's best offensive guys because of the risk of getting into foul trouble. Even if Amare improves dramatically on defense, he should only play the opponent's top guy at crunch time.

 

[pokerface]

The Suns need at least one more power guy. Amare should not be forced to defend the opponent's best offensive guys because of the risk of getting into foul trouble. Even if Amare improves dramatically on defense, he should only play the opponent's top guy at crunch time.

Agreed. Its too much responsibility being placed on young Amare right now. Yes he said he will play occassional center but he doesnt want to be burdened excessively with it. Like you said we don't want Amare in foul trouble and that is a major concern.

 

[Errntknght]

Come to think of it one more power guy is not really enough unless it's someone who is established as being competent and rarely injured. Jake's fouls keep him from playing more than 24 minutes a game and he was injured a fair amount last year - planar fascitis is often troublesome once is starts, too. Amare's style puts a lot of strain on his body - he had a significant injury last year, don't forget. The main thing is that we certainly should be looking to conserve him until we are a contender for the title or close - 32 minutes per game is plenty for the purpose of his continued developement and more than that is folly if we are not in contention. I don't think D'A is going to inclined to conserve Amare for the long term - few coaches would, of course, since they have to succeed in the short term to keep their jobs. In light of that we need to have a reasonable substitute for Amare so there is not an good reason to play him 40 mpg - forget him having to fill in significant minutes at center.

With Amare and Jake healthy that leaves about 36 minutes for Lampe and Vroman to cover on a regular basis. Vroman is a total unknown but I'd hate to have Lampe needing to cover half of that night in and night out. I'd like to see him playing as many minutes as he can handle to speed his developement but he probably shouldn't be pushed very hard at his age. Then there's the fact that he's somewhat a liability on the floor at this stage, so there are likely to be a good number of games where he'll play a token amount. Overall, the way I see it is that Vroman would have to be a fantastic second round pick to cover 12 mpg consistently so we are stretched past the limit when the four bigs we have now are healthy.

If you look at the guys we might pick up - Scot Williams, Przybilla, Traylor for example - none of them are real workhorses nor injury free. Scot in in particular just can't handle more than 12 minutes on a regular basis. In any case one injury to a big would put us in a bad position and two out at once would be a killer - and with the bunch we have that's very likely to happen during the season.

 

[Yuma]

Just based on numbers and minutes, the Suns have to add another big guy. Unless Zarko put on 100 lbs in the off season!

 

[Joe Mama]

Agreed. Its too much responsibility being placed on young Amare right now. Yes he said he will play occassional center but he doesnt want to be burdened excessively with it. Like you said we don't want Amare in foul trouble and that is a major concern.

I agree. A lot of the power forwards in the West might be better players than the centers, but they aren't all as big as centers. Then there are rebounds to consider. All of the centers will look like great rebounders if they are battling on the boards with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, and Casey Jacobsen at small forward or Joe Johnson at small forward.

I agree with Ernknight at the team probably needs two more center/power forward players.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Then it's agreed. "We'll take two".