If we could undo the Kolb trade right now

[Russ Smith]

Andy Dalton. Ryan Williams has worked wonders for this offense. Blaine Gabbert. Gabbert looks more poised than Kolb does playing against the Steelers. Ryan Mallett. Richard Bartel. Tavaris Jackson. What's the difference? 5-11 with 'em, 5-11 without 'em. Larry Fitzgerald doesn't make this a Super Bowl team any more than Andre Johnson makes the Texans a playoff team or Calvin Johnson with the Lions.

Greg McElroy couldn't look as bad as Kevin Kolb is looking right now. Unfortunately, this coaching staff fell in love with one particular player and didn't bother to do a cost-benefit analysis of what they could have.

You're going to have to show me the pre draft posts where people said Dalton will be good and we should pass on Williams he's going to tear his patellar tendon.

I mean the best RB in our division is a guy who had how many surgeries while in college, the idea that one surgery in college should have indicated Williams was going to get hurt again is sort of iffy IMHO.

So far I do like Dalton but again they're not asking him to do nearly as much as we ask Kolb to do because their defense actually has been stopping people.

I haven't seen Gabbert yet can't comment on him.

 

[john h]

Not happy with what the team is doing...but also not experiencing buyers remorse on Kevin Kolb...he is new, and right now he trusts only Fitz,...and a little bit of Heap.....as he learns to trust the other players his game will improve.

Fitz is drawing double or even triple coverage nearly every play so his trust might be in the wrong place. Heap is making more catches for a TE than any Cardinal TE in a very long time. Perhaps since Smith.

 

[john h]

YUP! I don't like the Cardinals wide receivers beyond Fitz. They just aren't that good IMO. When opponents bracket and blanket Fitz, guys like Roberts & Doucet have got to make them pay. Boldin and Breaston with Kurt Warner as the trigger man were able to do that even in the red zone. Kolb with Roberts & Doucet have not.

The QB has to get the ball them fast and accurate and so far Kolb is doing neither.

 

[john h]

So we'd go with whom at QB? Skelton couldn't even hold the backup in an abbreviated camp and preseason.

Palmer isn't available. I guess we could have gone after Hasselbeck he's about the one guy that changed teams that has definitely been better so far.

It is much to late for the Cards to go after any QB this season. We will live or die with Kolb as it should be to see if this guy has the potential to be a starting QB next year. If he is still lousy near the end of the year then give who ever you think is the best a shot. You might strike gold. That is how Jim Hart got his shot when our QB went down. We did not know just how good he was sitting there on the bench. Kolb is getting the chance. He better make the best of it and show at least improvement with each game not go backwards.

 

[kerouac9]

You're going to have to show me the pre draft posts where people said Dalton will be good and we should pass on Williams he's going to tear his patellar tendon.

I mean the best RB in our division is a guy who had how many surgeries while in college, the idea that one surgery in college should have indicated Williams was going to get hurt again is sort of iffy IMHO.

So far I do like Dalton but again they're not asking him to do nearly as much as we ask Kolb to do because their defense actually has been stopping people.

I haven't seen Gabbert yet can't comment on him.

We're 1-4. What's the difference? We'd have DRC and a 2012 second-round pick.

Kolb isn't good. We're not using him right (we should be using just as Cincy is managing Kolb and San Fran is managing Alex Smith--they're both winning that way, but I guess it's good that Whis is in firm control of this abomination of an offense), but he also isn't playing well and getting worse every week instead of better.

Steven Jackson is the best RB in our division.

 

[LarryStalling]

My biggest problem with Kolb is that he is regressing from the start of the season. With such a short training season it is difficult to really evaluate him, but he is certainly doing himself no favor atm.

 

[Duckjake]

We're 1-4. What's the difference? We'd have DRC and a 2012 second-round pick.

Kolb isn't good. We're not using him right (we should be using just as Cincy is managing Kolb and San Fran is managing Alex Smith--they're both winning that way, but I guess it's good that Whis is in firm control of this abomination of an offense), but he also isn't playing well and getting worse every week instead of better.

Steven Jackson is the best RB in our division.

Beanie Wells is the best RB in the division. Has the highest yards per game average and 2 more TDs than Gore despite playing in two fewer games.

Oh crud I better not start that again.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Sometimes I wish we could undo the last 23 years.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We're not using him right (we should be using just as Cincy is managing Kolb and San Fran is managing Alex Smith--they're both winning that way, but I guess it's good that Whis is in firm control of this abomination of an offense), but he also isn't playing well and getting worse every week instead of better.

Yeah, we're running an offense that assumes that the QB can actually make plays and is competent enough to win games because of that QB. Sadly, despite what we've given up, that ain't Mr. Kolb.

Pretty scathing analysis by Somers today, in general I think he skews towards the positive in his review of players, none too charitable with ol Kev.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2011/10/17/20111017arizona-cardinals-kevin-kolb-fixing-problems.html

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I had no issue with the Kolb trade at the time because we were at least trying to do SOMETHING which historically is very anti-Bidwillian. Still it's not all doom and gloom as we'll draft a QB in the first round this year if KK continues to suck.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, we're running an offense that assumes that the QB can actually make plays and is competent enough to win games because of that QB. Sadly, despite what we've given up, that ain't Mr. Kolb.

Pretty scathing analysis by Somers today, in general I think he skews towards the positive in his review of players, none too charitable with ol Kev.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2011/10/17/20111017arizona-cardinals-kevin-kolb-fixing-problems.html

I don't think that kind of an offense isn't effective, or isn't effective with only a moderately-talented QB. I mean, Andy Reid managed Donnie McNabb for a decade with great success.

I just think that it seems like Whis just dumps the playbook on a young QB and says, "You'll figure it out as you go along." That's the problem with having a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator with no experience working as a quarterbacks coach. Vick wasn't handed the West Coast Offense and told to go execute it. He got it for two or three years with Atlanta, and then he sat on the bench or played in special packages for a hear and a half in Philly.

Whis just doesn't manage his quarterbacks; he gives up on them. #7 then Anderson then Hall then Skelton. He can't give up on Kolb because he's tied his future as Arizona Cardinals head coach to him. But in a shortened offseason he's clearly laid too much on Kolb without putting him in a place to be successful. If you don't have reps in the plays you're calling Week 1 or Week 2, you don't call them.

Alex Smith is putting his passes high and away from his targets. Maybe it's because he just completely lacks accuracy, but you think that would be consistently high and too the sideline--even when he steps into his throws and has good mechanics. I'm guessing that's because he's coached to put it in a place where only the WR can get to it--don't put the ball in a position where it's going to get picked.

 

[kerouac9]

I had no issue with the Kolb trade at the time because we were at least trying to do SOMETHING which historically is very anti-Bidwillian. Still it's not all doom and gloom as we'll draft a QB in the first round this year if KK continues to suck.

You're doubling-down on the team going anti-Bidwillian, huh? How out-of-character would it be for the team to use a first-round draft pick to replace a player they'd just guaranteed $21 million to?

We'll draft offensive tackle or rush linebacker no matter where we're picking in the first round next year. Put a stamp on it and mail it to yourself so you can open it this April.

 

[Big Deal]

I like the Kolb trade, he will be fine but we need to give him some decent OTs.

And a decent system that fits his style instead of Whiz's crap system that isn't effective for the run, or the pass.

Whiz always said, the system works. Why did Warner have to audible out of everything?

 

[Big Deal]

My biggest problem with Kolb is that he is regressing from the start of the season. With such a short training season it is difficult to really evaluate him, but he is certainly doing himself no favor atm.

He has probably had a concussion since nearly being beaten to death in Washington on a couple of hits. If not, it sure seems like the effect of taking those hits has stayed with him because he certainly is not comfortable in what our team calls a pocket.

 

[Jersey Girl]

way too soon.

This.

Too soon to tell what kind of QB we have in Kolb (and this comes from someone who was against bringing him here).

 

[Mitch]

This.

Too soon to tell what kind of QB we have in Kolb (and this comes from someone who was against bringing him here).

I agree, Jersey. Although if his current weaknesses aren't shored up---that will speak volumes, not only about Kolb, but about the coaching. It all goes hand in hand.

 

[Jetstream Green]

would not trade Kolb

 

[GatorAZ]

I'd still do the trade and make the 2nd rounder in 2013. Our 2nd round pick might be top 40 this year. Ouch.

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont get what anyone sees in Kolb. He does nothing well as a QB and there are several aspects of his game that are terrible.

And even if you actually like Kolb, I dont see how ANYONE could want to do the trade exactly as it was again. No matter how good or awful Kolb is we still overpaid. There were ZERO other teams bidding for Kolb yet Graves acted as though he was at a freaking auction with time running out. A 2nd rounder (that will almost certainly be a top 40 pick), a young talented play making corner AND a 60 million dollar extension... for a guy no other team was pursuing and thats completely unproven. Disgusting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I dont get what anyone sees in Kolb. He does nothing well as a QB and there are several aspects of his game that are terrible.

And even if you actually like Kolb, I dont see how ANYONE could want to do the trade exactly as it was again. No matter how good or awful Kolb is we still overpaid. There were ZERO other teams bidding for Kolb yet Graves acted as though he was at a freaking auction with time running out. A 2nd rounder (that will almost certainly be a top 40 pick), a young talented play making corner AND a 60 million dollar extension... for a guy no other team was pursuing and thats completely unproven. Disgusting.

You keep saying that like it's fact, how do you know this? I mean, seriously how could you possibly know this. There are a lot of discussions and negotiations that never go public.

Also, we were in a tough spot. IF Kolb is your guy you can't afford to watch the offseason go by while you're haggling over the price. Besides needing to get him in camp, any delay at all opens the door for others to enter into the bidding fray. Again, that's IF Kolb is the guy you want. If he's just one of several that interest you or if you have other options (someone already on the team for example), then sure, you can draw a line in the sand but we simply did not have that luxury.

Steve

 

[WarnerHOF]

I would not want DRC back for a bag of cookies. Never seen a softer player after he just moved out of the way to watch Steven Jackson run 30 yards to the endzone last year.

 

[Phrazbit]

You keep saying that like it's fact, how do you know this? I mean, seriously how could you possibly know this. There are a lot of discussions and negotiations that never go public.

Also, we were in a tough spot. IF Kolb is your guy you can't afford to watch the offseason go by while you're haggling over the price. Besides needing to get him in camp, any delay at all opens the door for others to enter into the bidding fray. Again, that's IF Kolb is the guy you want. If he's just one of several that interest you or if you have other options (someone already on the team for example), then sure, you can draw a line in the sand but we simply did not have that luxury.

Steve

Not only were the no reports of other teams pursuing (and the reports of the Kolb negotiations turned out to be 100% accurate) but who else was conceivably pursuing him? Virtually everyone else in the league addressed their future QB concerns either in the draft of the opening hours of free agency.

The Seahawks made their lack of interest clear, the Dolphins were apparently invested in Chad Henne and the whispers about them QB scouting were with Orton, the Dolphins had already learned their lesson about dealing for Eagle QBs. I mean... seriously, what other teams were there? The Redskins certainly wernt going to deal with Philly, every other team with a hole at QB took one early in the draft.

So, I feel that it can unequivocally be stated that no other teams were looking at Kolb. From the moment Seattle inked Tavaris there were no other teams looking at Kolb. The Cards bid against themselves.

As for not wanting the offseason to go by while negotiating for Kolb. There was a full week that went by from the Cards executing the trade, to when new acquisitions were allowed to join their new teams. Thats 7 days of negotiating time, 7 days of allowed the lack of options for the Eagles sink in... but instead Graves goes out like its a freaking E-Bay bid and the clock is about to run out.

And this is all ignoring the joke of a contract he was handed.

Even if Kolb miraculously becomes a quality QB (which I extremely doubt), the negotiations to land him were a complete embarrassment.

 

[john h]

Pretending we kept the receipt and could haggle with Philly on the condition of the "returned goods", how little would you fellow fans be willing to take back?

DRC and a 4th? A 6th? DRC by himself? A 2nd round pick on its own?

I would put the value of Kolb right now if the Cards tried to move him in the open market at (the very most) a single 3rd round pick.

Just give me DRC and I do the deal. I make a run at Carson Palmer but never never give up what Oakland gave for him. I doubt that either of our two QBs would have done any worse than Kolb up to this point. Surely either of them could have won one game and would be moving forward and not backward.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Even if Kolb miraculously becomes a quality QB (which I extremely doubt), the negotiations to land him were a complete embarrassment.

Cosign.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

too soon

if we can undo...lets do a bunch

Keep Kyle Vanden Bosch, Take AP instead of Levi Brown, Keep the pick and take Suggs instead of Pace and Johnson, Pick Brian Urlacher instead of Thomas Jones, Take Aaron Rodgers instead of Rolle

You would take Adrian Peterson over Revis?