If you HAD to choose...

[82CardsGrad]

I know we're in the final stretch of a run at the post season, but it's hard for me not to think about the many critical decisions Hazen will face this offseason... So, for argument sake, assume that Greinke has pitched well enough this season that, along with salaries steadily increasing since the Dbacks signed Zack to his massive deal, perhaps Greinke has made himself much more able to be traded...
So, if you knew you could unload Greinke - obviously not getting much in return as the chief purpose of the trade would be to get out of the $31 Million or so he's owed each season thru 2021.
And knowing that JD will command somewhere around $20 Million or so, and knowing that you have guys like Robbie Ray, Corbin, Walker, Pollock and Lamb to deal with since they all have contracts that expire after this season. Goldy is signed thru 2018 and his contract has a Club Option for 2019 @ $14.5 Million. However, I would have to think that the team will look to re-do/extend his contract to ensure Goldy retires a Dback...

But all this leads to JD Martinez... So the question is, would you trade Greinke in an effort to lock up JD?? It's the age-old dilemma - do you choose great pitching or great hitting??

 

[Ronin]

I'm torn. I would look to the sf giants model of great pitching and timely hits. Their great pitching brought them 3 titles in 5 years. They never had that power hitter that scared you in the line up. What they did have was a great starting pitching and a bull pen that was nails.

 

[GatorAZ]

You'd still have to eat some of Greinke's deal in the trade so giving JD 150+ mil could really be like paying 200m. We just have to get used to the fact that he isn't coming back.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You'd still have to eat some of Greinke's deal in the trade so giving JD 150+ mil could really be like paying 200m. We just have to get used to the fact that he isn't coming back.

Maybe... You might be right about having to eat some of Greinke's money, but I'm not 100% convinced of that given the season he's had...particularly if he continues to pitch well thru the playoffs.
Even still, I am not 100% sold on dumping a border-line CY Young quality pitcher for a big bat. These days, there are a record number of guys hitting 20 and 30 HR's, many of whom can be grabbed for 1/2 of what JD will cost.
In the perfect world the Dbacks would find a way to keep both JD and Greinke, but I think you and I have a greater shot at hitting Powerball...

 

[Dback Jon]

I would keep Greinke.


I want JD back, but is this just a contract surge?

 

[az jam]

Actually I was thinking the same about trading Greinke to keep JD. I would do it. I think there are some teams with lots of money like the Yankees and RedSox that we could trade him to for prospects. Robin Ray could become our ace and the starters would be Ray, Corbin, Walker, Godley and perhaps Shelby Miller. (note we need to sign these pitchers that have expiring contracts ).JD is a difference maker every day!! He makes all the players better around him, plus he wants to be here. It would be a real shame to lose him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Maybe... You might be right about having to eat some of Greinke's money, but I'm not 100% convinced of that given the season he's had...particularly if he continues to pitch well thru the playoffs.
Even still, I am not 100% sold on dumping a border-line CY Young quality pitcher for a big bat. These days, there are a record number of guys hitting 20 and 30 HR's, many of whom can be grabbed for 1/2 of what JD will cost.
In the perfect world the Dbacks would find a way to keep both JD and Greinke, but I think you and I have a greater shot at hitting Powerball...

He'll be making 35mil at 37 years old. They have to eat a significant amount and probably half if they want any top-10 prospects. If they straight up dump him it would probably be around that 40-mil range. It's just unrealistic and not worth it.

On a different note TLR and Stewart should be paying a qtr of Tomas' salary out of pocket.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He'll be making 35mil at 37 years old. They have to eat a significant amount and probably half if they want any top-10 prospects. If they straight up dump him it would probably be around that 40-mil range. It's just unrealistic and not worth it.

On a different note TLR and Stewart should be paying a qtr of Tomas' salary out of pocket.

FWIW, agree with you and voted "no"... And yes on the Tomas debacle!!!!!

 

[Dude]

Even still, I am not 100% sold on dumping a border-line CY Young quality pitcher for a big bat. These days, there are a record number of guys hitting 20 and 30 HR's, many of whom can be grabbed for 1/2 of what JD will cost....

This.

Plus JD wont do this all year every year.

 

[DWKB]

Martinez is a defensive liability. Even with his excellent offense he's still only a 3+ WAR player this year. His age will only make this worse.

Greinke is a 5+ WAR player this year and was even a 2+ WAR player last year.

Think about that. Last year Greinke was only around one win worse that this year Martinez.

 

[overseascardfan]

One of the radio guys threw out an interesting situation, they mentioned an idea of dealing Pollock (so they don't have to pay him) along with contract of Tomas. Significant prospects would not come back in the deal, strictly a salary dump.

I would keep Greinke, I know he is getting older but true aces usually pitch well into their late 30's (Maddux, Johnson, Glavine, Smoltz). Granted Martinez is still young and his bat is extremely productive, but you can find an OF easier than a #1 SP. But ARZ still has to make a decision on Pollock as well, do you pay him big $$$ despite his penchant for ending up on the DL freqeuntly or take the compensation pick and move on? The only good thing ARZ has going for them going into next year is they look to have all 5 rotation slots locked up. They do have a stud potential closer in Bradley, just need to worry about bull pen.

 

[BC867]

Greinke is an ace every fifth game. It is great to have him. But when it comes down to a choice, Martinez has affected the two most important positions in the batting order. His outstanding performance and forcing opponents to pitch to Goldy. Yes, you can find an outfielder easier. But not one who has done what JD has accomplished for the team and the fans.

How long has it been in our history? The 2017 D-backs are at least as good as, if not better, than Gonzo and Williams were as a combination for a season.

I say we keep Martinez even at the expense of losing Greinke. We have other pitchers to each move up a notch. And as great as The Beard has been as a setup man, he wants to be a starter.

It is not just about stats. It is about what 2-in-a-row would you want coming up in the 8th or 9th innings with the outcome on the line.

A stopper (at least at home) in every fifth game or a make-things happen every game combination, home or away? And someone to step in for Goldy when needed. I choose the latter.

 

[AZ Native]

I thought our huge TV deal was going to give us more money to possibly keep guys like JD without giving up our best player/s. Guess not.

 

[AZ Native]

Martinez is a defensive liability. Even with his excellent offense he's still only a 3+ WAR player this year. His age will only make this worse.

Greinke is a 5+ WAR player this year and was even a 2+ WAR player last year.

Think about that. Last year Greinke was only around one win worse that this year Martinez.

I don't know, with his bat and his 40+ homers, I don't see the stumbling bumbling Tomas in the outfield. I think he makes the team so much better no matter what his WAR is. Just my 2 cents. Keep Greinke too, trade Tomas to the AL as a DH for whatever, and move on. JD changes the dynamics of this team, IMHO. He improves the clubhouse too, which is difficult to measure. Start using the big TV money and the fans will be there too. It's all relative.

 

[DWKB]

I don't know, with his bat and his 40+ homers, I don't see the stumbling bumbling Tomas in the outfield. I think he makes the team so much better no matter what his WAR is. Just my 2 cents. Keep Greinke too, trade Tomas to the AL as a DH for whatever, and move on. JD changes the dynamics of this team, IMHO. He improves the clubhouse too, which is difficult to measure. Start using the big TV money and the fans will be there too. It's all relative.

The question was "which one" so keeping both doesn't fit with the rules of the poll. Thus, I compared them to each other. Tomas doesn't enter into that equation.

Martinez very well might improve the clubhouse, but how do I or you or any fan really measure that? We don't see that dynamic and at best get some third hand accounts from reporters.

His WAR says he makes the team better, so I don't understand the "no matter". It also says he's a big improvement over Tomas.


Not sure what you don't know about or what you're in disagreement with my post to be honest.

 

[AZ Native]

Rules of the polls? Didn't realize there were rules. Besides, they are made to be broken.

Of course Tomas enters into the equation. ANY money saved by getting rid of him would benefit keeping Martinez. I think the huge TV deal could help make it happen too.

I wasn't trying to disagree with your post. Just giving my opinion. As far as the clubhouse dynamics, just look around. It is not difficult to see he is a good guy making others better. Sorry you can't measure that, that's why I watch the games, you can see it. There is a human element in baseball too. It's not only numbers. You need both. Just look at Theo. He has done very well for himself. (His book is very telling)

You can learn a lot by simply watching the games. Of course, the numbers help too. And why are trying to limit the discussion anyways? That's what fan forums are for.

 

[DWKB]

Rules of the polls? Didn't realize there were rules. Besides, they are made to be broken.

Of course Tomas enters into the equation. ANY money saved by getting rid of him would benefit keeping Martinez. I think the huge TV deal could help make it happen too.

I wasn't trying to disagree with your post. Just giving my opinion. As far as the clubhouse dynamics, just look around. It is not difficult to see he is a good guy making others better. Sorry you can't measure that, that's why I watch the games, you can see it. There is a human element in baseball too. It's not only numbers. You need both. Just look at Theo. He has done very well for himself. (His book is very telling)

You can learn a lot by simply watching the games. Of course, the numbers help too. And why are trying to limit the discussion anyways? That's what fan forums are for.

Hahahaha. Ok dude, whatever.

No worries.

 

[Matt L]

I voted to trade Greinke to lock up JD for 2 years $20 mill per year and then use the extra money to bolster the bullpen and get a 5th starter.

 

[GatorAZ]

I voted to trade Greinke to lock up JD for 2 years $20 mill per year and then use the extra money to bolster the bullpen and get a 5th starter.

He's getting at least 6 years and 120+ mil. Trading Greinke is the fastest route back to not making the playoffs again.

 

[Matt L]

He's getting at least 6 years and 120+ mil. Trading Greinke is the fastest route back to not making the playoffs again.

I didn't see that contract in the poll. I'm a little skeptical that he will get that type of contract. 6 years is a lot for a 30 year old who is one-dimensional.

 

[Dback Jon]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...mondbacks-j-d-martinez-free-agency/673010001/

Still, a panel of scouts and executives surveyed don’t think Martinez will have any trouble securing a huge deal, drawing comparisons ranging from Hunter Pence’s five-year, $90 million contract to Justin Upton’s six-year, $132.75 million deal. No one expects a deal as long as Jason Heyward’s eight-year, $184 million, but Heyward’s $23 million annual average value could be comparable, one scout said.

Many are also envisioning deep-pocketed clubs, including perhaps the Boston Red Sox, jumping in on the bidding, a factor that could drive up the price.

“I think he’ll get $100 million from a big-market team,” a high-ranking talent evaluator for a National League club said. “He’s going to be much more attractive to teams that can offer designated hitter at-bats, but his bat should get him close to $100 million.”

 

[Brian]

I would NEVER advocate trading pitching for hitting, but in this case I voted yes because I don't see the end result as simply an "A" or "B" outcome.

This is NOT a WS contending team. Their middle infield and 3B is a sucking black hole that shows no signs of improving.

My thought was that shedding Greinke's salary would allow for the signing of J.D. AND possibly shoring up one of the 3 infield spots and maybe even a reliever or two.

This club still has several holes to fill. They aren't complete yet.

2B, SS, 3B, and the bullpen all need to be addressed in the offseason.

Drury, Ahmed, Marte, Hoover, McFarland, maybe Owings, and maayyybe Lamb all need to go bye-bye.

 

[BC867]

Trading Greinke is the fastest route back to not making the playoffs again.

And letting J.D. go isn't?

J.D. improves two spots in the heart of the batting order (forcing opponents to pitch to Goldy as well as his own performance). Greinke affects half of the game once every five days.

This conversation is not just about Greinke (as good as he is, and remember his home performance is more golden that his road performance), it is about which of the two players being discussed has a greater influence on the better part of 162 games, if we can't afford them both. Which is why I voted yes.

If Lambe were a consistent 100 RBI threat, it might not be so important, but with him excelling during the first half of the season and disappearing the second half -- for these past two seasons -- and never being the strong batter to bat behind Goldy, J.D. is crucial to our success.

 

[GatorAZ]

And letting J.D. go isn't?

J.D. improves two spots in the heart of the batting order (forcing opponents to pitch to Goldy as well as his own performance). Greinke affects half of the game once every five days.

This conversation is not just about Greinke (as good as he is, and remember his home performance is more golden that his road performance), it is about which of the two players being discussed has a greater influence on the better part of 162 games, if we can't afford them both. Which is why I voted yes.

If Lambe were a consistent 100 RBI threat, it might not be so important, but with him excelling during the first half of the season and disappearing the second half -- for these past two seasons -- and never being the strong batter to bat behind Goldy, J.D. is crucial to our success.

Why do people use the argument of non-pitchers making an impact every day? That doesn't mean he makes a positive impact every day. He's a terrible defender and he's not great offensively every game so that line of thinking is thrown out. I will take a legitamate ACE over a 3-4 WAR corner OF 100/100 times.

 

[BC867]

Why do people use the argument of non-pitchers making an impact every day? That doesn't mean he makes a positive impact every day. He's a terrible defender and he's not great offensively every game so that line of thinking is thrown out. I will take a legitamate ACE over a 3-4 WAR corner OF 100/100 times.

J.D. is a threat to impact 162 game each season (unless he's injured), mostly as a regular and the rest as a pinch hitter in a clutch situation.

Zach is a threat to impact approximately 32 games during the regular season, a few during the playoffs and two in the World Series (OK, a third if, like RJ, he relieves in Game 7).

And, as we've seen over the years, it is easier to come up with an ace of the staff than the guy who can make a difference hitting behind Goldy.

If the D-backs had a 1a ace like Johnson had Schilling, it would be closer. But Robby Ray (especially tonight) is nowhere near that invincibility.

That is why I use the argument of star position players having the potential to make an impact any day over the 162 game schedule. Nobody makes an impact every day as you quoted. 'Just my opinion.

Edit: Wow, what timing for J.D. to bail out our #2 starter's horrible night with a 2-run HR to tie the game after they pitched to Goldy for a sac fly (the benefits I cited about J.D.). I couldn't have composed it better.

Robbie, as an All Star pitcher, won't have the chance to redeem himself for five more games.