If you want a FA Cb, answer these questions.

[Skkorpion]

1. Duane Starks was a very fast man-to-man capable shut-down corner. Are there any of those types available out there?

2. How much man-to-man defense do we play in our secondary? 30% of the time? 10%? 75%?

3. Renaldo Hill, Coby Rhinehart, and Nijrell Eason all seem to have the necessary CB intelligence and skills except speed. Do any of the FAs out there have the same abilities plus the speed?

4. Other than one CB spot, is our secondary sub-par?

My answers are No, about 5% to 10%, No, and No. Ergo, play the guys we have who already know the system.

 

[Pariah]

Skkorp, that's a great arguement if your premises were universally accepted, but unfortuantely, they're not. I don't agree that Hill, Rhinehart and Eason have all of the skills minus the speed.

I'd rather have a guy how has proven year in and year out that he can make the right decisions (Moldin) at corner than a guy who is either completey unproven (Eason) or has done nothing to ever earn his way into a starting role (Hill/Rhinehart).

 

[SECTION 11]

Hard to argue with that logic.

 

[spanky]

Originally posted by Pariah
Skkorp, that's a great arguement if your premises were universally accepted, but unfortuantely, they're not. I don't agree that Hill, Rhinehart and Eason have all of the skills minus the speed.

I'd rather have a guy how has proven year in and year out that he can make the right decisions (Moldin) at corner than a guy who is either completey unproven (Eason) or has done nothing to ever earn his way into a starting role (Rhinehart).

Rhinehart is not projected as a starter.....never has never will

 

[Jttsaz]

Alex Molden

2002 San Diego Chargers 16 starts 3 INT's 2 Sacks

1st Round draft selection...
A superior athlete with excellent speed, leaping ability and instincts, Molden excels in bump-and-run technique.(according to NFL.com)

Had Sacks vs. both Seattle and San Fransisco last year, had int's vs Seattle, Denver, and Cinci

I don't know what his 40 time is...but he was a good player last year...I say sign him...before someone else does...

 

[spanky]

And Eason is not projected as a starter either. For much of camp he operated as a SS.

 

[Pariah]

So what if those guys aren't starters? All I'm saying sign a guy who is better than they are. All I'm doing is respondiong to Skkorp's post. HE mentioned those players specifically. Heck, You can plug in Hill's name where I have Rhinehart's for that matter--he's never earned a starting spot either.

What if Barrett and/or Hill gets injured. Would you rather have Moldin or Rhinehart starting? Moldin or Eason?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Jttsaz
Alex Molden

2002 San Diego Chargers 16 starts 3 INT's 2 Sacks

1st Round draft selection...
A superior athlete with excellent speed, leaping ability and instincts, Molden excels in bump-and-run technique.(according to NFL.com)

Had Sacks vs. both Seattle and San Fransisco last year, had int's vs Seattle, Denver, and Cinci

I don't know what his 40 time is...but he was a good player last year...I say sign him...before someone else does...

Dude, Molden was bad last year. Why do you think he is available?

And trusting NFL.com on player evaluations, is like trusting the Coal industry on enviromental studies...

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by Pariah
Skkorp, that's a great arguement if your premises were universally accepted, but unfortuantely, they're not. I don't agree that Hill, Rhinehart and Eason have all of the skills minus the speed.

I'd rather have a guy how has proven year in and year out that he can make the right decisions (Moldin) at corner than a guy who is either completey unproven (Eason) or has done nothing to ever earn his way into a starting role (Rhinehart).

Fair enough. And I admit my judgment on Hill, Rhinehart, and Eason may be wrong. We'll soon see how Graves feels.

 

[SweetD]

Stone is the answer. Know that they need him to be good he will step up and take over for Starks...... Man the hang over must be coming back....

 

[pinnacle]

Skorp: I tend to agree with your argument - but one thing that needs to be considered is special teams. IMO - the biggest weakness in the preseason on the Cardinals was coverage on kickoffs and punts..If there is a guy out there who has same skills as one of the guys we have as a corner - but has experience on special teams and is better than what we have on punt and kickoff coverage - I say bring him in..I cannot really answer that - not sure if there any special teams type guys out there at corner -
I would speculate if they were good special teamers - they would not have been cut in the 1st place..

Michael Stone (as an example) seems to be awful on special teams - which is why he may not be around. Rhinehart is decent.

 

[Rivercard]

Cool avatar SweetD

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
trusting the Coal industry on enviromental studies...

Rush Limbaugh!

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
1. Duane Starks was a very fast man-to-man capable shut-down corner. Are there any of those types available out there?

2. How much man-to-man defense do we play in our secondary? 30% of the time? 10%? 75%?

3. Renaldo Hill, Coby Rhinehart, and Nijrell Eason all seem to have the necessary CB intelligence and skills except speed. Do any of the FAs out there have the same abilities plus the speed?

4. Other than one CB spot, is our secondary sub-par?

My answers are No, about 5% to 10%, No, and No. Ergo, play the guys we have who already know the system.

As far as I'm concerned, Skkorp just went game, set, and match with this post. I saw nothing but great things form Hill and Eason this pre-season and have no problem with those guys taking up the slack for Starks. Plus I trust Graves and Mac to make the decision of whether to add someone or not. I feel they have done an excellent job so far and have transferred this team from plain vanilla to choclate caramel.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Rush Limbaugh!

I had to take a jab.

Hold me back next time Section...

 

[Jttsaz]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Dude, Molden was bad last year. Why do you think he is available?

And trusting NFL.com on player evaluations, is like trusting the Coal industry on enviromental studies...

I wouldn't call his numbers from last year bad. My guess is the Skins (who have Champ Bailey and Fred Smoot)let him go because Rashad Bauman Has played very good...and is less expensive. There is some serious competition at cb in Washington and Molden was released...Is he as good as Starks? No...but he better than what we got...Depth wise...and he could possibly compete for a starting position...

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Cool avatar SweetD

Thanks it was time for a change.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: If you want a FA Cb, answer these questions.

Originally posted by 40yearfan
As far as I'm concerned, Skkorp just went game, set, and match with this post.

Somebody better tell Graves about this post, then. I think he's bringing in a couple of CBs for a looksee on Friday. That could be a "Graves" mistake!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by SweetD
Stone is the answer. Know that they need him to be good he will step up and take over for Starks...... Man the hang over must be coming back....

You know it occurs to me we could move Thompson to Safety, Wilson to CB, drop Dennis Johnson to OLB and take care of everything (-:

I think the answer is it's unlikely anybody available is as good as a healthy Starks. But signing the best available guy could be a good thing.

Last year if you recall we discussed Daryl Gardener and all agreed he had a bad back and was shot. So did the rest of the NFL, he ultimately took NFL minimum in Washington, and promptly played so well he was voted the teams Defensive MVP. He was all set to sign there again when he found out suddenly there was a market for him, and he wound up getting a big deal from Denver, where he got hurt in a bar fight, but the point is sometimes one of these guys really does help your team even if it's just for one year.

 

[40yearfan]

Re: Re: Re: If you want a FA Cb, answer these questions.

Originally posted by Pariah
Somebody better tell Graves about this post, then. I think he's bringing in a couple of CBs for a looksee on Friday. That could be a "Graves" mistake!

Hey Pariah, the least you could have done would be to put the rest of my post in this quote where I said I would trust to Graves/Macs judgement on acquiring anothe CB. You're getting as bad as Dan Bickley

 

[CardAvenger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: If you want a FA Cb, answer these questions.

Originally posted by 40yearfan
You're getting as bad as Dan Bickley

Now that is hitting below the belt.

Pariah- Call him Pedro.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
1. Duane Starks was a very fast man-to-man capable shut-down corner. Are there any of those types available out there?

2. How much man-to-man defense do we play in our secondary? 30% of the time? 10%? 75%?

3. Renaldo Hill, Coby Rhinehart, and Nijrell Eason all seem to have the necessary CB intelligence and skills except speed. Do any of the FAs out there have the same abilities plus the speed?

4. Other than one CB spot, is our secondary sub-par?

My answers are No, about 5% to 10%, No, and No. Ergo, play the guys we have who already know the system.

#1: No, of course not. This hasn't even been the argument and is completely irrelevent. I'm not clamoring for a starting CB (though we're toasted without one-there just isn't a shutdown corner available)

#2: Not very often-we're more zone oriented.

#3: Renaldo Hill and Coby Rinehart have both shown the intelligence and skills to be nickel CBs. Neither have shown the necessary skills or speed to even sniff the starting lineup. Eason has shown nothing. He is a practice squad-type player that now may make the roster because of lack of depth.

#4: Yes, because you can't judge on starters alone in a secondary. The fact that our starter is out weakens both our nickel and dime packages.

I'll add a question #5 for you, Skkorp: Are you confident with these guys as our lone CBs for the season?

and #6: Do you honestly think we have a shot at any kind of positive season with these guys as our lone CB depth?

I'd give a NO and a HELL NO to those last two. And I'm sorry, opinion or no, there is little to no argument on those points. They just don't have the talent or speed to be #1 (Barrett) #2 (Hill) or #3 (Eason or Rinehart) CBs. Simple fact.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: If you want a FA Cb, answer these questions.

Originally posted by 40yearfan
As far as I'm concerned, Skkorp just went game, set, and match with this post. I saw nothing but great things form Hill and Eason this pre-season and have no problem with those guys taking up the slack for Starks. Plus I trust Graves and Mac to make the decision of whether to add someone or not. I feel they have done an excellent job so far and have transferred this team from plain vanilla to choclate caramel.

40yr--I didn't mean to take you out of context by not including your entire quote. I thought you meant to imply the debate should be over because of the argument Skkorp made--Hill and Eason are adequte players. Maybe I was wrong.

Looking at your next sentence you seem to be leaving the possibilty that Hill and Eason may not be the answers to our CB depth (or starters as the case may be). Rod Graves may well want to bring someone in.

So, I guess I'm confused. Is the debate over, or is there still room for debate?

 

[Skkorpion]

Stout, I think we'll have trouble all year with big WRs and speed WRs because Hill, Rhinehart, and Eason lack speed. That position will be a weak point.

I just don't see anybody out there who is an upgrade.

Sometimes you can't fix everything right away.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Stout, I think we'll have trouble all year with big WRs and speed WRs because Hill, Rhinehart, and Eason lack speed. That position will be a weak point.

I just don't see anybody out there who is an upgrade.

Sometimes you can't fix everything right away.

I don't want to be a "negative nelly", but I believe we shouldn't have been so thin to begin with. Now, you're right, it's late in the game, too late for "shoulda's" and "could'as".

However, who thought we'd get any decent o-line depth last year at this point in the preseason? We had even worse o-line depth, and we got Fina and Roundtree. Both played well, and the same things were said about them that has been said about the CBs on this thread. So, there could be some hope.