if you want the suns to win now

[scotsman13]

there has been a lot of talk of what it will take to get the suns to win now. kobe, tmac even shaq have been talked about. but with all of these people it would gut the suns or not address the real weaknesses of the suns as a team. kobe and tmac are both scorers that would be able to make the suns at the end of games, but joe johnson has shot that he can make those shots to. to get tmac we would have to give up a number of very valueable players in both jj and marion plus a lottery pick. to get shaq we would have to give up even more. one report had the lakers wanting amare, jj and marion for shaq. which would leave the suns with a very light roster and no cap room. so what can the suns do with their cap room that will turn the team into winners now?

the suns real weakness this season was at point guard and center. even before marbury was traded there was problems with this team on the court. marbury was unable to or unwilling to lead this team the way he had the season before. now i know that some of you wont like this but there really is only one choose that would fix the teams problems without the chance of creating more with the same type of problems that marbury created on this team. there are 2 free agents out there that can repair the suns major problems.

the suns should bring in nash and camby.......
what? they are both old and have had some injury problems.
yes there is no question that camby has had some injury problems. but without a question camby when healthy is one of the better shot blockers and rebounder out there. he doesnt have drug problems and he does play hard when he is healthy. he doesnt have to go a lot of shots to be effective and the players like him (as seen by jj and marion talking about the free agent money that we are going to have this summer). agianst almost anyone but shaq or yoa he can work very well for this team. also it would give me a lot of joy to see this team do to denver what they did to us. after everything is said and done camby fits this teams needs and style of play better then anyone else that plays center out there.

nash is a true point who likes to set up other players, he has great range and loves to run. he rebounds well and will get this team in their plays. for a team with a post player he maybe better then kidd (kidds real weakness has always been entery passes to the post). it is said that he doesnt play defense. i believe that statement can been hung on the coach of the mavs. no one on that team plays defense. it just isnt something that they do. he will help this team get run better and went they get into a haft court game he will make sure that the play is run right. he is a very good outside shooter who will be able to brake the zone with his outside shooting and passing.

if they go down we will have go backups to replace them for a time. jj and barbosa can run the point (heck we have heard out good barbosa is doing this summer) if nash has time away. for camby we have jake, lampe and vroman (if he adds 20 to 30 lbs.) and if they are healthy this team would be more effective then even a team with kobe and tmac on because we dont have any real weakness for other team to take advanage of.

 

[JCSunsfan]

. he doesnt have drug problems .[/QUOTE

I thought he had an issue back in college. A little "uncle-cliffy-itis"

All that aside. You might be right. In fact, this might be exactly what the Suns have in mind. Vet leadership.

We'd have to give up alot to get T-Mac. If we got Kobe, we can't add a big man. We could add Camby AND Nash. But Camby and Kobe would be nice.

 

[scotsman13]

do you think that kobe is going to take 7 million less to get camby? hehe i am sure his soon to be ex-wife doesnt want him to.

 

[JS22]

I pretty much agree.

Might we actually be better off by just trying to add Nash + a respectable center?

 

[The Commish]

Good post scotsman. I totally agree with your assessment of what it would take for the suns to be a solid team. I have been on the signing Nash bandwagon ever since it was mentioned. Yes I understand he is 30, but his ability and style of play is exactly what the Suns need (someone who can shoot well, dish, and perhaps score 10-15 a game)...we dont need another Marbury.

As for Camby I am still a little gun-shy about signing him to a lucrative deal with the type of money that he commands. But then again it seems every FA Center has health concerns. So with that in mind I would still agree that Camby is still the best FA center out there. Does that the Suns should push hard for this guy? Not necessarily. I wouldnt mind him though in a suns jersey...I just hope to god that we dont choke and sign Okur to a ginormous contract.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think almost every center being considered, except Okur, would be an improvement. I have always thought that a decent center and PG who can shoot would be better than just a Kobe, even though he is a great player.

At PG I don't HATE Nash, I just think that Brent Barry would be a better fit - because he can play PG, shoot AND PLAY DEFENSE. But I would not get wildly upset if they ended up with Nash. Okur on the other hand...

 

[scotsman13]

the think about okur is that he is tough and has been very well coached. also the with his outside shooting he can open up the middle for the suns. also one other thing about his is that the pistons cant pay him more then the MLE.

 

[Chaplin]

the think about okur is that he is tough and has been very well coached. also the with his outside shooting he can open up the middle for the suns. also one other thing about his is that the pistons cant pay him more then the MLE.

Well coached means nothing if you're not any good. You watched the Finals didn't you? Jake Voskuhl would have contributed more than Okur did.

 

[scotsman13]

yes chap i did see the finals and i dont think he was as bad as some of you have made him sound. dont get me wrong i dont thing that he was that good ether. he isnt the player i personally want the suns to pick up. but i am not the one that makes that choose the suns do. they have a great deal more basketball knowledge then any of us do.

 

[Chaplin]

yes chap i did see the finals and i dont think he was as bad as some of you have made him sound. dont get me wrong i dont thing that he was that good ether. he isnt the player i personally want the suns to pick up. but i am not the one that makes that choose the suns do. they have a great deal more basketball knowledge then any of us do.

And if you think that knowledge includes paying Okur 7 million a year, I sure hope you're smoking something REALLY good!

 

[scotsman13]

hehe yea chaplin if i thought paying okur 7 million a year would be right then you are right i would be smoking some really good stuff. the pistons can only match the salery up to the MLE. .01 over that they cant match so we can get him for a great deal least then 7 million. 5 million is around what the MLE is going to be. so 5.1 may get us a center that has championship experance and has good coaching.

personally okur isnt my first choose or even second for us to pick up at center, but he is a choose who will bring something to this team for some time.

 

[scotsman13]

I think almost every center being considered, except Okur, would be an improvement. I have always thought that a decent center and PG who can shoot would be better than just a Kobe, even though he is a great player.

At PG I don't HATE Nash, I just think that Brent Barry would be a better fit - because he can play PG, shoot AND PLAY DEFENSE. But I would not get wildly upset if they ended up with Nash. Okur on the other hand...

george the single problem i have with barry is that he is 33 years old and is having a lot of injury problems of late. he isnt the passer that nash is (he is a very good passer) and he lacks the weight to take some of the heavy beatings that can come with being an nba player. but if he were signed it would mean that he would make a very good 6th man for the team backing up the 1 and 2.

 

[slinslin]

george the single problem i have with barry is ...

You have a problem with everything, really.

Trading for TMac is bad, signing Kobe is bad etc etc

 

[Joe Mama]

You have a problem with everything, really.

Trading for TMac is bad, signing Kobe is bad etc etc

come on slin. You can disagree with Scotsman, but he does make some very good points. He just doesn't feel this Phoenix Suns team needs one of the superstars, especially given the questions involved with both of them.

Scotsman, I actually agree with you that a healthy Steve Nash and a healthy Marcus Camby might be the best pieces for this team. However there is still no question in my mind that the Phoenix Suns will not go after Marcus Camby because of the risk involved. I'm not sure anybody is going to give him the type of money he and his agent have been talking about. I know the Phoenix Suns won't come close to those demands.

 

[slinslin]

I think that every GM who passes on a chance to sign a player of the magnitude of a Kobe Bryant, a player that at this young age could be considered the 2nd best shooting guard ever and is definately the closest thing to Michael Jordan ever, should be fired immediately.

Especially when you are talking about a team that won 29 games, has no current allstar, or superstar and lacks leadership.

If you don't think a Kobe/JJ backcourt or Kobe/Barbosa or Kobe/undrafted free agent scrub isn't better than Nash/JJ I don't know what.

Kobe is by far the best guard in this league. Just adding Kobe will improve this teams record by 15-30 wins.

 

[Chaz]

Scotsman, I actually agree with you that a healthy Steve Nash and a healthy Marcus Camby might be the best pieces for this team. However there is still no question in my mind that the Phoenix Suns will not go after Marcus Camby because of the risk involved. I'm not sure anybody is going to give him the type of money he and his agent have been talking about. I know the Phoenix Suns won't come close to those demands.

I agree, if Camby could stay healthy (at least as much as he did last year) then he would be a perfect fit for this team.

I am not sure we could get by with Stoudemire, Lampe, Vroman, Voskuhl, and McDyess, but I am not convinced there are many better options out there worth the money they are asking for. If the Suns add another big guy they will probably overpay someone because there is not much value out there IMO.

George has an interesting suggestion with Blount from the Celtics, He is young but he is a risk because he is unproven. Okur is just pretty bad on defense IMO and the Suns need defense and rebounding at that position more than an offensive threat.

I think the Suns will try to get Kobe but the fact is they can't pay him as much as the Lakers. The most optimistic I can get is to guess the chances are 50/50 but I doubt the Suns have that much of a chance.

I think with Kobe and Stoudemire the Suns would be on their way to competing for the title but probably still two years away.

 

[coloradosun]

I live and Denver and Camby is staying put. He opted out of his contract early so that the Nuggets could do some more manuevering. His is staying put.

I think Utah wants Okur, they drafted Pavel and traded him right away to the Mavs. He could have been another Mark Eaton for the Jazz, but they moved him for a reason.

Blount has stated that he wants to play for a Florida team and both Orlando and Miami are ripe for the need for centers.

Those three guys should not even be a consideration, there will be a bidding war for all of them which I think that we should not waste our time.. We are going to have to trade for a center and Marion might have to be the bait. If there are not takers then I think we go forward with McDyess and work with the chemistry that we finished last season with.

 

[slinslin]

We should just keep Keon Clark around for the veteran minimum if we wanted a guy like Camby.
Unfortunately that's most likely not going to happen.
If we don't get Kobe we are looking to build a team of white role players around Amare, Marion and Johnson it looks like.

 

[George O'Brien]

I live and Denver and Camby is staying put. He opted out of his contract early so that the Nuggets could do some more manuevering. His is staying put.

I think Utah wants Okur, they drafted Pavel and traded him right away to the Mavs. He could have been another Mark Eaton for the Jazz, but they moved him for a reason.

Blount has stated that he wants to play for a Florida team and both Orlando and Miami are ripe for the need for centers.

Those three guys should not even be a consideration, there will be a bidding war for all of them which I think that we should not waste our time.. We are going to have to trade for a center and Marion might have to be the bait. If there are not takers then I think we go forward with McDyess and work with the chemistry that we finished last season with.

The Heat are limited to their MLE in going for Blount (same as the Celtics). The Heat are also facing losing Alston to free agency if he won't bite on the lower level exemption.

I wouldn't take the pre-talks period too seriously. Last year the Wizzards came out of no where when the signed Arenas. There wasn't even a hint.

 

[zett]

I would insert dampier in place of camby, and if the Warriors want to do a sign and trade ship them eisily

 

[George O'Brien]

There is a lot of talk about Dampier going to the Pacers in a sign and trade. Harrington and Foster would total about $10 million and be a huge improvement for the Warriors.

BTW, if that happens, I think Foyle would be more likely to leave.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is a lot of talk about Dampier going to the Pacers in a sign and trade. Harrington and Foster would total about $10 million and be a huge improvement for the Warriors.

BTW, if that happens, I think Foyle would be more likely to leave.

If Foyle is really one of our FA targets, then why didn't we just keep Jahidi White. White is a better version of Foyle IMO.

I think we have bigger fish in mind, and I wouldn't rule out Camby. He's not signed yet, and the Suns will come a'callin.

 

[George O'Brien]

If Foyle is really one of our FA targets, then why didn't we just keep Jahidi White. White is a better version of Foyle IMO.

I think we have bigger fish in mind, and I wouldn't rule out Camby. He's not signed yet, and the Suns will come a'callin.

Most people think Foyle is a much better player than White and certainly a better shot blocker. I fear he is going to be too expensive for what he's worth, but that is a recurring problem.

I think waiting is the best bet with Camby. His initial demands are so terribly far out of line it is not worth bothering with, but maybe a month from now he will change his tune.

 

[Joe Mama]

I realize there are surprises in free agency, but there's a reason we have not heard about the Phoenix Suns pursuing Marcus Camby from anyone but Marcus Camby. They aren't going to do it. I just saw Bryan Colangelo again on a local sports show last night. He repeated that they will be careful with the money they spend in free agency. He obviously could not talk about specific free agents, but the players he described definitely included Steve Nash and Kobe Bryant. He also said that if they did not get those players in free agency they had some other moves they were working on.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I realize there are surprises in free agency, but there's a reason we have not heard about the Phoenix Suns pursuing Marcus Camby from anyone but Marcus Camby. They aren't going to do it. I just saw Bryan Colangelo again on a local sports show last night. He repeated that they will be careful with the money they spend in free agency. He obviously could not talk about specific free agents, but the players he described definitely included Steve Nash and Kobe Bryant. He also said that if they did not get those players in free agency they had some other moves they were working on.

Joe Mama

I have a growing belief the Suns will not go after a free agent center (unless you count Dice) but instead try to do something as part of one of these wacky four or five team trades. For example, Etan Thomas is much more likely to come over as a cap balancer in a trade than as a straight free agency signing.