I'm getting really sick of people bitching about our running backs

[vince56]

Maybe it's just me, but if we got an o-line actually worth a damn, I think you lock up both Shipp and Arrington for years to come.

Shipp and Arrington are complimentary backs. Thunder and lightning. Both have good vision, good agility, and the ability to get upfield.

Shipp posesses unworldly vision and some poweful legs, as well as the ability to run through people, while Arrington posesses some finesse, flash, youthful legs, and speed, while still being able to punish a defender from time to time. Remember, most of Arrington's yards in college came between the tackles.

Most teams don't just sit with one back. They start one and give two playing time. Usually it's 70/30 or 60/40. 60/40 would work great with Shipp and JJ in there, alternating whichever one is hot that day into the 60 role.

I love our RB situation. I love our WR situation. I can live with our QB situation. Now fix the damn O-Line!!

 

[seesred]

I agree

GBR
40

 

[Russ Smith]

Completely agree, individually neither one is great, but together they can be very good if the OL would just block.


lee Suggs has nothing that JJ doesn't have, except that he can't stay healthy. William Green, hell if we want a drug guy let's get Ricky at least he's been a pro bowl RB, Green is just a disappointing first round pick who's looking for one last shot.

The time to get a RB from somewhere else was last year when the Jets were considering trading Jordan and the Chiefs were dangling Larry Johnson, we let those ships sail and they are NOT coming back.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

I wouldn't used words like 'unworldly' to describe Shipp and I am not gonna jump on the JJ bandwagon yet.... but I hear what you are saying and agree to some extent.

Shipp IMO still needs a few more game before I get on board. I think he should be starting because he is getting it done more than JJ is.

I'm still in awe about the O-line woe's!! I just do not get how the Cards cannot get a push when it comes to running downs.

 

[JPlay]

Arrington's time may be a year away, but he should be used situationally this year. Any which way these backs need at least 25 carries. This is definitely a pass 1st team right now.

 

[vince56]

I wouldn't used words like 'unworldly' to describe Shipp

Read the post again. I didn't say Shipp was unworldly, I said his vision is. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. Shipp's greatest strength over the years has been his tremendous downfield vision.

 

[vince56]

Arrington's time may be a year away, but he should be used situationally this year. Any which way these backs need at least 25 carries. This is definitely a pass 1st team right now.

I somewhat agree, and what sucks about that is that "pass 1st" usually means you lose games. You gotta run the football to compete in the NFL.

 

[Grand Canon]

Arrington

I was a huge fan of this pick in the draft, but I must say I cant believe that he is a year away- I dont think he will ever pan out... look at running backs history, only priest holmes is a guy who is sucessful in the league after not starting well right away- and he was three deep on the roster thats the only reason why..

 

[clif]

Read the post again. I didn't say Shipp was unworldly, I said his vision is. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. Shipp's greatest strength over the years has been his tremendous downfield vision.

I would disagree about shipp's vision. There were a couple times on sunday where he could have cut to the outside but didn't. Instead he plowed right into the opposing player. Now granted he had some nices runs, but it certainly was not due to his vision.

This is where I have to agree with K9's long standing arguement in that if Shipp had better vision he would have scored more TD's in his career. I love Shipp's abilities, but vision is not one of them.

 

[conraddobler]

I would disagree about shipp's vision. There were a couple times on sunday where he could have cut to the outside but didn't. Instead he plowed right into the opposing player. Now granted he had some nices runs, but it certainly was not due to his vision.

This is where I have to agree with K9's long standing arguement in that if Shipp had better vision he would have scored more TD's in his career. I love Shipp's abilities, but vision is not one of them.

Basically Shipp is Priest Holmes without the vision, IMO.


If you watch the two of them it's erie how similar they are, the difference being one runs behind a great O line and the other dosen't, also Priest is very patient at hitting holes where Shipp isn't, which could be because he never sees one.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I agree

GBR
40

I second that!

 

[Russ Smith]

I was a huge fan of this pick in the draft, but I must say I cant believe that he is a year away- I dont think he will ever pan out... look at running backs history, only priest holmes is a guy who is sucessful in the league after not starting well right away- and he was three deep on the roster thats the only reason why..

again that's completely untrue. Kevin Jones started slow, Julius Jones started slow, Thomas Jones started slow, Larry Johnson started so slow he spent his first year playing special teams and his 2nd year started with his coach calling him a HER!

There have been a lot of RB's who didn't get it right away but wound up being good and most of them had more than 8 carries before people felt they didn't get it, and most of them weren't running behind an OL this weak.

Might he be a bust, sure, every player in the draft has that chance, but first the kid has to get healthy from whatever flu he has, and then he has to get a chance in games. Right now Shipp earned another start, I personally believe JJ will wind up the starter but I think for now Shipp fits the OL better and he'll get more carries.

 

[john h]

Maybe it's just me, but if we got an o-line actually worth a damn, I think you lock up both Shipp and Arrington for years to come.

Shipp and Arrington are complimentary backs. Thunder and lightning. Both have good vision, good agility, and the ability to get upfield.

Shipp posesses unworldly vision and some poweful legs, as well as the ability to run through people, while Arrington posesses some finesse, flash, youthful legs, and speed, while still being able to punish a defender from time to time. Remember, most of Arrington's yards in college came between the tackles.

Most teams don't just sit with one back. They start one and give two playing time. Usually it's 70/30 or 60/40. 60/40 would work great with Shipp and JJ in there, alternating whichever one is hot that day into the 60 role.

I love our RB situation. I love our WR situation. I can live with our QB situation. Now fix the damn O-Line!!

We in no way have seen enough of Arrington to make any sort of judgement much less lock him up for years. He is very much of a work in progress. We have an idea of what Shipp can do. He is a good servicable RB who blocks better than Arrington. He is not an all pro running back and unlikely he will ever be but at this point the best we have. Neither are close to Carnell Williams. Watch this guy run and you can see a future all pro if he does not get hurt.

 

[john h]

Read the post again. I didn't say Shipp was unworldly, I said his vision is. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. Shipp's greatest strength over the years has been his tremendous downfield vision.

When Shipp breaks through the first line of defense and approaches a would be tackler he lowers his head and gives him a shot. He does not keep his head up looking for another hole or make another move. He is very much a power runner and will be unlikely to break big runs. Team can use players like this. JJ is still very much an unknown as in his first game he averaged less than a yard per carry. That is why Cadillac went in the 1st round and JJ went in the second round. Pro scouts are not blind.

 

[john h]

I would disagree about shipp's vision. There were a couple times on sunday where he could have cut to the outside but didn't. Instead he plowed right into the opposing player. Now granted he had some nices runs, but it certainly was not due to his vision.

This is where I have to agree with K9's long standing arguement in that if Shipp had better vision he would have scored more TD's in his career. I love Shipp's abilities, but vision is not one of them.

Shipp is a power runner. He does not look to make moves after breaking through the line. He lowers his head and takes on the tacklers. Some guys keep their heads up always looking. Not Marcel. He prefers to try and run over people. That is just his style.

 

[john h]

Basically Shipp is Priest Holmes without the vision, IMO.


If you watch the two of them it's erie how similar they are, the difference being one runs behind a great O line and the other dosen't, also Priest is very patient at hitting holes where Shipp isn't, which could be because he never sees one.

Excellent analogy.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would disagree about shipp's vision. There were a couple times on sunday where he could have cut to the outside but didn't. Instead he plowed right into the opposing player. Now granted he had some nices runs, but it certainly was not due to his vision.

This is where I have to agree with K9's long standing arguement in that if Shipp had better vision he would have scored more TD's in his career. I love Shipp's abilities, but vision is not one of them.

I somewhat disagree, the thing that first struck me about Shipp was his knack for finding a hole when Jones or Pittman couldn't. Where I agree with Clif is that once he gets downfield, he stop looking for daylight and just looks for someone to run into. Wolfley made that comment on the run where he ran over the safety, he was yelling about what a great run it was, and then Pasch politely mentioned that Arrington probably would have tried to juke the safety and break a long one but that's not how Shipp runs. Not saying JJ would have juked the safety and broken it, just that he might have tried.

As for redzone to be honest I have no clue. in 2002 Shipp had 9 Td's, 6 rushing, in less than 200 carries. I was at the 49er game that year and Shipp looked like a very good redzone RB that day, he found gaps and scored. Since then I think the OL has stunk, but I have to admit I'm starting to wonder if K9 is right and Shipp just doesn't have the nose for the endzone.

This OL now is so bad it's hard to compare. You watch Priest dodge tacklers and you have to remember it's quite common for him and Johnson to be 5-6 yards downfield before they have any contact so on the occasions they do get contact earlier, they're already running hard assuming the hole will be there. Cardinal RB's are so used to the hole NOT being there, that I think maybe in JJ's case he's not running as hard as he should be. Shipp does that better right now.

I do think both guys are good enough, the concern on Shipp is the way he runs he gets hurt, the concern on JJ is he has to do it in NFL games, I saw enough in college to think he can, but he has to do it eventually.

 

[Russ Smith]

When Shipp breaks through the first line of defense and approaches a would be tackler he lowers his head and gives him a shot. He does not keep his head up looking for another hole or make another move. He is very much a power runner and will be unlikely to break big runs. Team can use players like this. JJ is still very much an unknown as in his first game he averaged less than a yard per carry. That is why Cadillac went in the 1st round and JJ went in the second round. Pro scouts are not blind.

While I agree with you about Cadillac I would argue he's an example of pro scouts being blind because 2 RB's were taken ahead of him including his college backup, Ronnie Brown.

JJ's debut was not good but take away that busted play where he and Warner collided on the possible reverse and you get 2 YPC which is essentially what Shipp did in the same game against the same defense. Wolfley said during the game that they'd seen that reverse in practice and he believed it was a reverse, although the Cards do have the same play where they give the ball to JJ while faking the reverse. 2 YPC stinks too, I'm not saying otherwise, just that JJ took that loss but it's not at all clear it was his fault and even if it was, it says nothing about his ability as a RB, it was a miscommunication not a lack of talent that caused that loss.

 

[BACH]

I was a huge fan of this pick in the draft, but I must say I cant believe that he is a year away- I dont think he will ever pan out... look at running backs history, only priest holmes is a guy who is sucessful in the league after not starting well right away- and he was three deep on the roster thats the only reason why..

Could you please just make some research for five frigging minutes before making a statemant like that!!! Please!!

Larry Johnson
Priest Holmes
Lamont Jordan
Rudi Johnson
Julius Jones
Thomas Jones
Kevin Jones
Clinton Portis
Chris Brown
Stephen Davis

 

[JPlay]

Could you please just make some research for five frigging minutes before making a statemant like that!!! Please!!

Larry Johnson
Priest Holmes
Lamont Jordan
Rudi Johnson
Julius Jones
Thomas Jones
Kevin Jones
Clinton Portis
Chris Brown
Stephen Davis

Oh and don't forget Ricky Williams who led the league in rushing after several years of mediocrity.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Completely agree, individually neither one is great, but together they can be very good if the OL would just block.


lee Suggs has nothing that JJ doesn't have, except that he can't stay healthy. William Green, hell if we want a drug guy let's get Ricky at least he's been a pro bowl RB, Green is just a disappointing first round pick who's looking for one last shot.

The time to get a RB from somewhere else was last year when the Jets were considering trading Jordan and the Chiefs were dangling Larry Johnson, we let those ships sail and they are NOT coming back.

I still think Brian Westbrook would look real good in Cardinal red. He surely isnt going back to Philly next year and he would fit nicely into this offense as a pass catcher and runner....

 

[Pariah]

Oh and don't forget Ricky Williams who led the league in rushing after several years of mediocrity.

Not exactly accurate, more closely resembles "wrong."

 

[Grand Canon]

Russ Please!!!!!!!!!!

Julis Jones was hurt- Larry Johnson was in the doghouse- Kevin Jones is still very average- Thomas Jones are you kidding??? Cedric Benson was drafted why- who else did you reference??? Running back is one of the few postions that a rookie can come in imediately and contribute if he has NFL talent-

 

[Grand Canon]

Bach???

Clinton Portis?? enough said do research

 

[Grand Canon]

Oh some research Clinton Portis 1508 rushing yards/15 td's 5.5 average
Ricky Williams first year 880 yrds-

If JJ gets over 600 yrds I will shave JJ in the side of my hair